I'm sure you know that the current real (what wages will buy) minimum wage
is 12 percent below its 1967 level. Can you justify this?
All talk because federal contract workers have never been paid minimum wage.
When I had a summer job years and years ago, our pay even then was much more
than the minimum. If you bid on federal government work today there is
published the rate you have to pay and it is not cheap.This is much ado
about nothing. If Obama is serious about wages then he will start paying his
female employees the same as his male employees.
"The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates the president’s
proposed wage increase would destroy at least 500,000 jobs, even as it lifts
900,000 people out of poverty. Under the best scenario, that’s a net gain
of 400,000 lucky people"16 million people would be getting a pay
raise. Even if it's not enough to lift them out of poverty it'd
certainly help those people too.
Several economists have studied the effects of previous minimum wage hikes on
employment numbers and have found virtually no correlation. This time will prove
to be no different.
For a piece that claims it wants to talk about facts, rather than emotion, the
entire piece is devoid of facts other than the CBO report. Look, this would
not be our first time to this rodeo. We have raised the minimum wage in this
country several times. There is more than enough history here to be able to
use real life numbers. So one can only conclude the numbers
didn't support the authors opinion, or the author was too lazy to do the
research. Either way, for a piece that claims the discussion needs to be moved
to fact based discourse, it don't do so itself. Maybe raising
the minimum wage would hurt the job market - we just wouldn't be able to
tell by what we read here. Come on DN, step it up a bit.
There are two huge benefits to raising the minimum wage. The first
is that low wages are de facto subsidies of low paying employers, like Wal-Mart,
many of whose employees are using government benefits like food stamps. In addition paying more to low income workers stimulates the economy
because they tend to pump their wages straight back into food and other basics.
I tend to agree with the premise that increasing the minimum wage has drawbacks
that will cost jobs and further stifle economic growth. At this point (6 years)
into a failing administration I say let's just do it. The resulting
economic downturn will only bolster the Republican chances of greater success in
both 2014 and 2016. In the long run, short term pain for long term gain.
Heard the same thing in the past, and it turned out incorrect. Money
is one of the biggest causes of divorce, paying a person a living wage could
help keep many families together. Right now it's better economically for a
husband and wife to split, and the wife go on welfare, especially if their are
quite a few children involved. Is the Deseret News still owned by
the LDS church?
Ergo...Lowering the minimum wage would increase jobs and improve the
economy.Ok.Eliminating the minimum wage would increase
jobs and improve the economy even faster.Super.The next
step in the trickle-down-economy model...Eliminate wages
Obama is obsessed with minimum wages when he should be working to create high
paying jobs. Minimum wages do not create prosperity, productivity does. Since
Obama has taken control of our economy, wages have decreased because private
sector productivity in America has decreased! High taxes, over regulation and
Obamacare have curtained private sector productivity. Poor leadership all the
You are so completely wrong about the effects of raising the minimum wage.
Imagine, a newspaper parroting partisan talking points. This paper isn't
even serving its own economic interests by taking this position.
It appears the D-News Editorial Board is stuck in 1979. In that year, 90% of
labor economists agreed that raising the minimum wage would have the negative
effects predicted by this piece.From 2012, labor economists are
split roughly into thirds, with one third asserting raising the minimum wage
hurts low end employment, one third claiming it actually would help low end
employment and the economy overall, and one third saying it just doesn't
make much of a difference at all.How did we go from an overwhelming
consensus on a fairly simple economics issue to such fractured opinions?
Because the mountains of data that should prove the historic claim simply
don't. Even Mitt Romney agrees the minimum wage needs to be
raised. He knows a thing or two about business, right? D-News:
1979 was 35 years ago. Come up to speed on more contemporary research.
It has been a long time since the minimum wage has been raised. Its seems
completely reasonable to raise it at least modestly, say $1 or $1.50, which
won't put the wage above historical levels so I think the arguments against
this are weak.Some countries also have a lower minimum wage for
teens say in the 15-18 age range. I think that could benefit the teens and
businesses as well.
Jobs are created when people want to buy something and have the money to buy it.
It doesn't really matter where they get the money, only that
they spend it. Welfare dollars spend just as well as wages, but the best effect
on the economy comes when wages provide the money.Rich people
receiving new money may sometimes spend it. Ordinary people don't have the
options of rich people so they tend to spend all that they have. Increased spending creates jobs. Increased wages creates increased spending.
If you read the actual CBO report, it does not say that an increase in the
minimum wage would result in a half million job losses. It merely says that
there might be job losses. It says there may be no job losses at all. Get your
I actually think there should be a minimum wage hike to at least $9.50 per hour.
Minimum wage is for a certain segment of society - collge kids and new married
couples trying to get through college. Kids under age 19 have a different
minimum - say the current minimum wage - but for the rest it should be raised.
With the price of everything going up including rent there needs to be an
Minimum wage only hurts the people it claims to help as it only leads to higher
unemployment. It looks great for the Democrats who claim to be helping working
people when, in reality, it only helps the unions prop up their wages (their
wages are based on a scale with minimum wage) and protects them from lower
priced competition.Let the market make these decisions and allow
young people and those trying to break into the market have a chance at a job.
If kids can't get a job, they have no chance to learn skills and work their
way up. Switzerland has no minimum wage. Their unemployment rate
"it may not be popular to stick to facts"First of all, the
link to the CBO report is not a link to the CBO report is just links to a
washingtonpost DOT com article. And even that link is broken because you
included a ) at the end that should not be there. But even that article does
not link to the original CBO report.It appears the CBO report you
are trying to reference is at www DOT cbo DOT gov /publication/44995 ( DN, how
about we start allowing URLs? )Since the "facts" are what
this article was initially claiming to talk about I imagine that you read all 43
pages of the actual CBO report PDF before writing this.In addition
to the CBO there other studies that have been done around the minimum wage. One
is "Minimum Wages and Employment: A Case Study of the Fast-Food Industry in
New Jersey and Pennsylvania" by David Card and Alan B Krueger in 1992.So if you want to "stick to facts" it would be really helpful if
your article cited and linked to those facts instead of trying to "influence
reality" through "popularity".
Or course this is what the DNews thinks. Just once I'd like to see the
DNews do some actual research and come to their own conclusion about something.
It seems all they ever do is look up a subject, look up what the ultra
conservative position is, and then parrot that position.
So, DesNews, are you saying you want to leave the minimum wage at slightly below
where it was in 1950, when it was $7.29 in 2014 dollars? The fact is that
minimum wage has not kept pace with the cost of living. We have many instances
where individual states have raised the minimum wage. Have we heard them
screaming about all the lost jobs? No. And don't expect to see hundreds of
thousands of jobs lost if the minimum wage is increased. It will actually put
more money into the hands of people who will go out and spend it, which will
increase demand, something that doesn't happen when excessive profits go
into the pockets of the upper class.
@Cats -Many people in Switzerland are under a collective bargaining
agreement. Most of those agreements stipulate a minimum wage. This month
Switzerland is also going to be voting on creating a minimum wage. If it passes
it will be one of the highest minimum wages of any country in the world.According to The World Factbook at cia DOT gov the 2013 estimated
unemployment rate in Switzerland is 3.2%.
In 1986, the Economist created the Big Mac Index, to show how minimum wage
stacks up around the world, the Big Mac being, of course, the most stable
international currency. It turns out that an Australian has to work only 18
minutes at minimum wage to buy a Big Mac. The French have to work 22 minutes,
the Japanese 31 minutes, and the Americans 35 minutes. Indians have it tough.
Their minimum-wage laborers have to work 347 minutes to earn enough to buy all
those calories.Of course, if the Swiss approve the highest minimum
wage in the world, which is on the ballot this year, they would be paying $24.80
per hour. They could buy lots of Big Macs for that hour's work. Of course,
90 percent of Swiss workers already earn more than that, so comparing the Swiss
economy to the American economy is like comparing, well, prime rib and a Big
Mtnmn:"Minimum wages do not create prosperity, productivity
does."Prosperity for whom, though? When productivity rises, what
this means is that (1) workers can produce more product in the same amount of
time, or (2) workers can produce the same amount of product in less time. Either
way, if demand does not increase, then increasing productivity means businesses
need fewer workers. Rising productivity generally translates into lower labor
costs, one way or the other, and the excess goes to whom? Generally not to the
workers. It goes to the owners and executives, who have actually not increased
their productivity. So those who are being more productive are penalized, while
those who are not being more productive are rewarded. This partially explains
why we have such rapidly increasing inequality in this country. The solution, of
course, is not to increase the minimum wage, although this would help restore
some balance. A better solution would be for business executives to study the
system developed by James Lincoln at Lincoln Electric during the Great
Depression. He understood a few simple principles most of today's business
leaders do not grasp. His business prospered, and his workers were among the
best paid in the country.
IF illegal immigration laws were (ever)to be enforced, you would see a
"natural" rise in wages from the reduction in the labor force.Obama COULD raise the minimum wage if he would simply ENFORCE illegal
Very sloppy editorial by the DN as pointed out by many of the previous posters.
A good example of how the "mainstream" media is bias. If you're
trusting the DN, Fox, MSNBC for your lone source of information your cheating
yourself from knowing the full story.
The good news is that the minimum wage _will_ be raised, the economy will do
just fine, and Republicans will have only reinforced their reputation as
irrational adversaries of the working poor and the middle class.If
the Republicans somehow succeed in blocking even a modest minimum wage increase,
they'll only have infrared gerrymandered congressional districts to call
"home," they'll never again occupy the White House, and
they'll most likely lose control of congress.
Re: Mountanman "Minimum wages do not create prosperity, productivity does.
"But labor has not been rewarded for its steadily increasing
productivity for well over 30 years! The benefit of all that added sweat has
gone to the top.
@Mountanman"Obama is obsessed with minimum wages when he should be
working to create high paying jobs."I thought the conservative
mantra was that gov't doesn't create jobs...Gov't can
create high paying jobs by doing things like expanding research and investing in
infrastru...oh right conservatives filibustered Obama's jobs bills. Way to
go Obama...Businesses will create jobs just fine if there's
sufficient demand. There isn't. And what do you all want to do about the
lack of demand? Cut off unemployment, keep the minimum wage low, cut off food
stamps and other assistance. All of those would harm things. Oh right, tax cuts.
You want tax cuts because deficits are super duper important... unless you can
get something out of it (like a tax cut), then it doesn't matter at all.
I really wish the liberals can explain how this will make the US manufacturing
more competitive. If it is going to cost more for labor, how does that
encourage manufacturers to stay here? Why do you liberals want to push more
businesses out of the US, do you really want unemployment to go up?To "references" they also say that Switzerland has to increase their
wages because the cost of living is so high. So, eventhough they have a high
minimum wage they still can't afford to buy what they need. The reports
out of there also point out that they are concerned that more jobs will be lost
there as they increase the minimum wage.
The state thinks it is all powerful and can set the minimum wage. Foolishness.
The minimum wage is $0.00. It represents what someone earns who is priced out of
the market. If the state sets the "minimum wage" at $10, someone who is
only worth $9 is out of a job. Companies like McDonalds are investing in
automated cashier kiosks - where you place your order with a machine. When was
the last time you had a gas station attendant wash your windows? Yeah, like in
the 70's. Those people trying to get an entry level job in the industry now
no longer have that opportunity (or at least there are fewer opportunities). The
high-school kid looking for a part-time job, good luck with that. The local
farmer trying to get his crops picked, yep, he'll have to pay more and
guess who will pay, not him. He's already working on a pretty thin margin.
He'll raise his prices. Maybe go out of business - so all we'll have
are the super large agra farms. There are all sorts of implications for the
"minimum wage" - none of them good.
More right-wing scare tactics from the D-News.
@MountanmanYou stated that productivity has gone down under Obama-
but, you are using opinion, not fact.If you check the Productivity
Index from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, you'll actually notice that
productivity has been rising all through President Obama's term. While a
quarter here and there may go down (as it historically does), the moving average
has been continually rising. Your arguments for decreased wages because of
decreased productivity are, therefore, false.Those of you who are
claiming that jobs would be lost due to a minimum wage increase need to provide
proof of that by referring to previous minimum wage increases and showing that
actual jobs were lost AND that they were never recovered.@Redshirt-
Manufacturing jobs won't be hurt because most manufacturing jobs are
already above the proposed minimum wage increase. In fact, according the Bureau
of Labor Statistics, the average hourly wage for manufacturing jobs in the U.S.
is $19.58/hour. Again, facts are amazing things.
Jobs will not be lost if the minimum wage is raised. Pizzas still need to be
assembled, hamburgers flipped, lawns mowed, store shelves stocked, and so forth.
I don't know a single employer who hires people just out of the goodness
of his heart and pays them for doing nothing. They are paid for working. The
work will still be there if wages go up. People will still be needed to do the
work.There is also a moral issue. People who are working full-time
should not be living in poverty. Period.
Minimum wage is the state telling employers how much to pay and employees how
much they earn. Instead, why don't we focus on equipping employees with
skills that employers would want? Then we should leave them alone to negotiate
without state interference.
To "Cincinnatus" what you and your ilk have failed to take into account
is the Ripple Effect. So, that $20/hr job may become a $25/hr job.Read "“Ripple Effect” of a Minimum Wage Increase on American
Workers" at brookings.CNN also confirmed that fact in
"Minimum wage hike could mean a raise for all".You still
haven't told us how this will make the US more competitive.
Raising the minimum wage is great for the economy... the economy of India, where
many of the jobs will go.It is also great for The Party of the
unemployed, who can strengthen their voting base.
Welcome to McDonalds. That meal will be $64.95 please.
Even the Swiss government recognizes an increase the minimum wages kills jobs.
BO talks about minimum wage because the vast majority of jobs
created during his misadministration have been low-paying service sector jobs.
If he one iota of economic sense we would have been creating high paying, rather
than low-paying jobs. Can any liberals spell “Keystone
Pipeline”?Redshirt,They cannot, that is why they do not
try. They just obfuscate.Humbug,Yeah, those jobs will still
need doing, but more people will just do it themselves rather than pay the
higher wages for someone else to do it.
It really doesn't matter WHAT the minimum wage actually is -- it purely a
number.But, When people make more, they spend more.THUS
- fuellng the economy.What's happening is the uber-ealthey -
who have 80% of wealth, already have everything money could ever buy. They add NOTHING to the economy, they are the real
"takers".Time to bust down the income disparity.
@lost in DC"Even the Swiss government recognizes an increase the
minimum wages kills jobs. "However, if wages are too low you
need more jobs because you have more two worker households or people needing two
jobs instead of one." If he one iota of economic sense we would
have been creating high paying, rather than low-paying jobs. Can any liberals
spell “Keystone Pipeline”?"I stand corrected. You
all do support a few infrastructure jobs between Keystone and border fence
Yeah, raising the minimum wage means that hamburgers and pizzas will be
outsourced to India. Riiiiight.
Still holding to the jobs loss talking points of conservative pundits and
politicians, even when the likes of billionaire Warren Buffett and politician
Mitt Romney, who was going to be the great job creator if becoming president,
both argue for a raise in the minimum wage? The DN seems to be getting more and
more conservative with time. Just think of the good that would result from
increased consumer spending, which would help grow the economy and create jobs
down the road, if the 440,000 workers at MacDonald's made about two dollars
more an hour. That can easily be absorbed by MacDonald's as their yearly
net profits average $5 billion.
@ RedshirtUnlike you, I've studied economics and have graduated
with a degree in economics. You focus on merely one aspect of the
Ripple Effect.Other effects?Folks having more money to
spend can then use it to buy more products. Buying more products causes a ripple
effect for manufactures to produce more products. Producing and selling more
products stimulates the economy thus creating more jobs and raising wages and
benefits. Why do conservatives like you want all the wealth to be
hoarded at the top? We will never get this economy going until we get the lower
and middle classes the wealth necessary to spur real economic growth and create
Social Security recipients, VA Benificiaries, Military Members, Federal
Employees, etc. all receive an increase or Cost of Living Adjustment each year
and it has not destroyed the nation. U.S. Senators and Congressman take regular
raises measured in the thousands of dollars and yet the nation lives on.
Likewise giving those on the bottom end of the economic spectrum more than the
$7.25 per hour will not destroy the nation and it will help some of them off
welfare and other aid and thus save the taxpayers money, boost buying power,
boost the economy, and provide a better quality of life for those on the bottom
or our economy.
I suspect that the real reason for the push for a higher minimum wage is that it
means more tax revenue for the government.
Well, you get an opinion, for sure. No one said it had to be correct.
A major problem for our economy is the increasingly desperate situation faced by
low income people. The Family Dollar chain just announced it was closing 370
stores. Why? The declining real value of the minimum wage won't even
support commerce at Family Dollar. Shame on you Deseret News. Your position is
just plain mean.
The Real Maverick, you said it so well. More income will allow more purchases
and that ripple effect will be much better than the uber-wealthy giving less
than 1% of their income to charity!
Could The D.N. possibly be any more partisan? How utterly ridiculous. Apply
this same logic in a major metropolitan city! Care to know what the minimum wage
currently is in San Francisco or New York? Seems to be working in these cities
Does any person commenting on this story actually make minimum wage, probably
not. Minimum wage is usually paid for a reason that usually has to do with
capacity rather than with skill.
Article quote: "Despite the assertion that a hike would add jobs and
increase pay, the economic reality is that a higher minimum wage doesn’t
necessarily produce either of those things. Employers who see their labor costs
arbitrarily increase as a result of government intervention end up hiring fewer
people, which means fewer jobs."This is called
"reality".Another article quote: "The nonpartisan
Congressional Budget Office estimates the president’s proposed wage
increase would destroy at least 500,000 jobs, even as it lifts 900,000 people
out of poverty. Under the best scenario, that’s a net gain of 400,000
lucky people, who would be offset by even more people newly unemployed."This is also called "reality".Those on the left
don't deal well with reality.And though I love Mitt Romney,
he's wrong on this.Higher wages = higher prices passed on to
the customer. Higher prices passed on to the customer = FEWER customers walking
into your business.It ain't rocket science....