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Comments about ‘9th Circuit Court issues stay in Idaho gay marriage case’

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Published: Thursday, May 15 2014 11:45 a.m. MDT

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Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@WRK
"We are not the ones driving others out of business for not thinking the way we do."

Do you believe a business should be able to fire someone just because of their sexual orientation? If you don't, then do you support the anti-discrimination job/housing bill that keeps getting stalled in Utah's state legislature?

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Rocket Science
"States have a vested interest in successful families, the optimal family opportunity being a husband wife/mother father marriage and therefore endorse and promote that which encourages the ideal. "

You live in a state where single people can adopt and based on your statistics argument, two parent households do better on average so... why are you trying to keep gay people from creating two parent households for the kids adopted by one of them? There's something in there that doesn't jive with your stated goal. By the way, the "optimal family opportunity" is a wealthier household, so should we prevent poor people from marrying?

Basically, your argument is based on both stereotyping (by using statistical averages to determine "optimal" situations) and then completely ignoring statistical averages except when it comes to gay marriage. So really, is this a reason, or is it an excuse?

mcdugall
Murray, UT

@Rocket Science - If you truly are concerned with creating the optimal family environment derived base on optimal outcomes for children, i.e. level of education, income, etc. you should be pushing efforts to increase livable wages. Income is one of a very small set of variables that have a direct positive correlation for outcomes for raising children, one of the others being a stable household. All of the research conducted and published to this point suggesting negative impacts on children who are raised in same sex households has been scientifically disproven and essentially disallowed in the court rooms.

LDSareChristians
Anchorage, AK

ODannyBoy posted
"Since the Supreme Court's intervention, all but one of the district courts that ruled against man-woman marriage stayed their own decisions".
None of the judges has ruled against man-woman marriage.

Just wait, the day will come when Gays will consider a Male-Female marriage an affront to their life style and seek to deny it to Heterosexuals.

Blue AZ Cougar
Chandler, AZ

@RanchHand
Quit kidding yourself. When someone can't express their views civilly without threat of recourse to the extent they may be fired from their job despite the fact that their views have nothing to do with their work qualifications, there's a problem. I don't advocate firing people simply because they are SS oriented -- that would be wrong because it clearly has nothing to do with their ability to work. But it goes both ways! Boycotting an entire business and demanding the resignation of an individual because s/he decided to contribute an inconsequential amount of money to the support of Prop 8 is just as intolerant as how you perceive the religious folks in relation to the SS movement. I'm tired of being labeled "intolerant" when some SS supporters will go so far as to destroy the livelihood of individuals who oppose SS marriage. It's equality as long as you get your way, right? So much for your platform of tolerance and acceptance.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

All drama aside (Chaos?), same sex marriage will occur. That's ok.

LovelyDeseret
Gilbert, AZ

Our Judicial needs to be reformed. Judge shopping should not be allowed then to have Judge Candy Dale disagree with the Supreme Court on the stay of gay marriage is unbelievable and reeks of activism instead of judicial interpretation of the Constitution while giving all deference to the Supreme Court.

LovelyDeseret
Gilbert, AZ

@mcdugall I am not wrong, Massachusetts has the lowest marriage rate of any state in America. If you reword what I say and include children (since Massachusetts doesn't generally have large families) and include elderly widows/widowers, then yes. But if you only include people of marriage age in the calculations then Massachusetts has the lowest marriage rate. Massachusetts also has the highest abortion rate which could speak to their lack of regard for marriage and morals.

LovelyDeseret
Gilbert, AZ

@Bjmoose

The Supreme Court voted 9-0 to stay Judge Shelby's decision. The burden for staying a decision is the likelihood that the decision will be overturned. On that the Supreme Court voted 9-0. They never agree on anything political and yet they voted 9-0 on protecting citizen's rights to decide the definition of marriage. This should be a clear message to all Judge's that there is a likelihood that the votes of citizens will be upheld and the Courts can't overturn marriage laws.

Demiurge
San Diego, CA

Some people seem to think being denied the ability to oppress others is bigotry against themselves. Gays will be married. Get over it and move on.

GingerAle
North East, OH

LovelyDeseret:

"What about the chaos in Massachusetts? Marriage rates in Massachusetts are the lowest in the country."

States that allow SSM have divorce rates that average 20% lower than states that prohibit SSM, and Massachusetts leads the nation in having the lowest divorce rate.

Utah, on the other hand, has a high rate of marriage, people marry on average 3 years younger than the national average. Utah has the highest rate in the nation for teen births. And it has the 4th highest divorce rate in the country.

In other words, those who marry in states that allow SSM actually cherish the whole idea of marriage, and those states have recognized that gays and lesbians add to that, not detract from it. In Utah, teens get married, produce kids, then get divorced a few years later.

Imagine the chaos if the whole country acted followed the Utah pattern.

I mean, who cares if lots and lots of people are getting married if you also have lots and lots of people getting divorced because they don't care at all about marriage?

Really???
Kearns, UT

@LovelyDeseret

"I am not wrong, Massachusetts has the lowest marriage rate of any state in America."

Where are you getting that data? According to Pew Research, there are eight states that have lower marriage rates than Massachusetts: California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Mississippi, Louisiana, New York, and Rhode Island.

I am sure that the demographics of each of those states would have different reasons for the lower marriage rates. Let's take into consideration, for example, the number of colleges and states in Massachusetts, which runs well over 100, would tell us that there is a large number of young college-age adults who are more likely to put off marriage until after they finish their educational endeavors. That state also has a large Catholic population, which means there is probably a higher percentage of nuns and priests than in other states. Could this be reasons for a lower rate a marriage than, say, the legalization of same-sex marriages?

USU-Logan
Logan, UT

@LovelyDeseret:

SCOTUS stayed Judge Shelby's ruling suggests justices are reluctant to allow a lower court to nudge them into answering a legal question they carefully avoided in two landmark gay rights rulings last year. Imagine if they denied the stay, they would simply open the flood gate.

But staying a decision doesn't indicate they will overturn the ruling or uphold it.

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

Well this is good news. Idaho voters have not been disenfranchised by a single judge. We are moving into a post-progressive era where the march of history is to limit rights and democracy.

"When are people in states like Utah and Idaho going to learn that the best way to handle this issue is to get their governments out of marriage altogether, rather than spending a fortune on a losing legal battle? "

Win or lose:
1) Their voters have as much right to be franchised as any other voters, i.e. to choose laws that reflect their value that children have the right to be raised by a father and a mother, and
2) The price for liberty is eternal vigilance.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@Blue AZ Cougar;

No amount of money put towards bigotry is "inconsequential".

I couldn't care less what you believe, personally, about SSM. That's your business. The actions of those who PROMOTE bigotry, however, are coming back to haunt them and if you think otherwise, you're the one "kidding yourself".

If you don't believe in SSM, don't have one; if you try to prevent others then you have to be willing to accept the consequences.

Utefan60
Salt Lake City, UT

Blue Cougar, I wonder how many LBGT people have lost their jobs, homes and apartments because they were simply "not straight" To compare them to the loss of a job by a CEO who angered his own employees and stockholders is apples and oranges. His ideas did him in. In his position with the people and company that he worked for he used bad judgment. He wasn't fired because he was gay, like so many thousands of people.

Rocket Science
Brigham City, UT

Airnaut, Agree it would be better if the optimal family opportunity of husband wife/mother father marriage was also ability for father as sole income and mother staying home to nurture children. My church has asked if at all possible we do, I might add it is possible with sacrifice. We don't have what many others do but for 29 years it has been worth the sacrifice. I highly recommend it.

Baccus 0902 the pressure has already been turned up. One cannot voice an opinion without threat of reprisal. In some places in CA teachers of elementary students must teach children that gay relationships are the same as heterosexual marriages now that is pressure having your children taught something you believe is wrong.

Schnee optimal family is husband wife/mother father in the household. Sometimes divorce, illegitimacy,or death take away from optimal in which the state has an interest to see that they do OK. Neither my statistics nor your have been scientifically disproven.

Anyone dare to read The Overhauling of Straight America by Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill in Guide Magazine, November 1987. If a SSM advocate you may agree with all but it really is about more that SSM.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Rocket Science
Should we figure out which race has the highest test scores and limit marriage to that too while we're all about this "optimality" thing? These averages are only ever used against same-sex marriage (single people can adopt in Utah, I don't see outrage about that, but if a gay person with an adopted child wants to add a second parent...).

"Anyone dare to read The Overhauling of Straight America by Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill in Guide Magazine, November 1987."

Skimmed it. I can see why it'd concern you since the end result pretty much results in regarding those who oppose equal rights for the LGBT community as something akin to those who support segregation. Not sure why I should be concerned though.

daniwitz13
Kaneohe, HI

Surely, everyone must realize that we would not be here for this very case, if the Formula of the opposite Genders were any different. If it was the Same Sex Formula, we would be like the Neanderthals,extinct. Everyone has the equal Right to mate with the opposite Gender. Again, if that was not true, Mankind would be not be here today. It would have died out millions of years ago. It is a no-brainer, what the Formula must be. Pity

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@Tekakaromatagi;

So, Idaho voters weren't "disenfranchised by a single judge", but somehow, it is okay (based on your comment) that LGBT voters, and American Citizens, were disenfranchised by Idaho voters?

@Rocket Science;

Why are you so afraid of your LGBT neighbors?

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