I get a kick out of these surveys calculated to tell the GOP what it thinks and
what to do.How about this instead? Read the GOP platform!It's
rather clear. It speaks of increased enforcement both at the border and in the
interior.It speaks of mandatory use of SAVE and E-Verify. It invites local
partnerships with police and sheriffs.Most importantly, it opposes amnesty
programs because they reward law breaking.I don't blame people for
not knowing this; GOP politicians at the highest levels trample on the platform
as though it didn't exist.But the GOP is US, not the politicians who
pander for votes and donations from business groups.And they use
self-serving surveys to bolster their renegade behavior.
Secure the border as best as possible.Institute E-Verify.Then, let's come up with a reasonable plan for the families here that
have no criminal issues not related to their immigration status.Let
them pay whatever fees or penalties are reasonable. Then, get them to a
permanent legal status. For those who came here as children, this path should
lead to citizenship. For those who came here as adults, perhaps it would not
lead to citizenship but only to permanent residency.Let them pay
whatever fees or penalties are reasonable.But let's get them to
a legal status AND put the border into a secure status.
@happy and @BrioMy politics are in the middle but I realize that means
I'm a screaming liberal to most DN readers. Today's GOP has abandoned
Americans like myself with crazy, half baked ideas, leaders and priorities.
Voting over 50 times to repeal a law that won't be is just plain stupid and
a waste of time. Yes, liberals waste a lot of time and money but they come
together as a party, lead and get things done. The GOP is in no condition to
assume control until they get rid of the radicals destroying the party.
I'm fairly confident Utah will be ridding itself of one of them in 2016
when those of us in the middle and independents vote out Senator Lee but not so
sure the rest of the country will be as sucessful. One can only hope.
@Joe"...Yes, they have a deep bench, but they are all playing
single A ball...".Perfect.
"lost in dc" Citizenship is the only component that democrats care
about at all. They want more people to promise "free stuff" to hoping
that they will vote for them.Democrats will never go along with any
immigration reform that doesn't include citizenship.
"If you do then vote Republican in the next two elections and you WILL see
some amazing leadership. Right now the GOP has an all star team just waiting in
the wings for power to change this country."Cmon Happy, Even
you had to be rolling your eyes as you typed that.Amazing
leadership? The GOP team is weak and you know it. Heck, everyone knows it.
That is exactly WHY you might see 10 or 12 possible candidates.Concerning presidential elections, the biggest problem for the GOP right now
is the GOP. In a crowded primary field they are each vying to out right each
other.Yes, that plays well with the base and is probably necessary
in order to get the nomination.But, it turns off the reasonable voters on
the middle.The GOP is in a full out civil war. Until they get that
figured out they will struggle.Yes, they have a deep bench, but they
are all playing single A ball.
FTMy last post on this subject goes to you. You want the GOP to
lead? Or not? If you do then vote Republican in the next two elections and you
WILL see some amazing leadership. Right now the GOP has an all star team just
waiting in the wings for power to change this country. There will be so many
trying to get the Presidential nomination that it will probably start out with
10 or 12 possible candidates. Who do the Democrats have? Who are they counting
on to lead them out of the Obama era? One old has been lady. Beyond that
who've they got? Laughable, but Kerry again? Gaff prone Biden? The
Democrat Party is pathetic right now and with polls all showing negatives for
Obama and the Democrats a huge change is likely coming and much needed. Face
it. When Obama leaves office he will have left the most dangerous country any
President in recent history has left. A diminished military. No respect from
allies. No fear from enemies. A probable 18 trillion dollar debt. Could he be
a bigger failure?
You want immigration reform? Ok, fine. Just start enforcing the lousy 1986
law. It hasn't been repealed. Also secure the border with Mexico.Basically immigration reform is nothing more than a ploy to get more people to
vote for the Democrats, who they will then ignore them when they get their
support. Just like they ignore blacks. The problem is, that the leadership of
the two minority groups will continue to brow beat their followers to vote for
Democrats, even though Democrats have done nothing for them.
We already passed a bill to build a border fence, with strong interior
enforcement, E-verify, and more court judges and clerks, it was called the 1986
amnesty. We also passed a bill for a visa entry-exit system, it was
in the reform of 1996. Passing enforcement bills is a waste of time,
and America should vent their frustrations against the pro-illegal folks in
November. Amnesty, including letting people stay here legally, will
continue the de-facto amnesty and encourage more people to die in the desert,
and separate families. The only way to keep families together is to stop them
from coming in the first place. We must enforce our laws as a deterrent to stop
future law breaking. Anyone who supports amnesty also supports breaking up
families and loss of life for cheap labor. Adding the people
won't grow the economy, increasing labor doesn't work, we need
increased jobs. Like the ones opening up when people return home.
@ FT:If you follow and read about national politics with any degree
of objectivity (you're obviously very liberally biased on comments today
and previously), you'd then understand that Harry Reid is making it
impossible for anyone of either party to "lead on this or any other
issue". He has the Senate in a near complete shutdown. He
won't even allow discussion of certain topics on the Senate floor, let
alone a vote on anything at all that isn't an absolute slam dunk for his
pet agenda items. The American public is overall in favor of the Keystone
pipeline. He's afraid some Democrats might break from Obama and vote in
favor of it. Therefore, he won't allow it to even be voted on in the
Senate. There are multiple such political bias laced examples.I've been around for half a century and this is the worst I've ever
seen the Senate... under either party. It's sad. There is no way anyone can
realistically blame Republicans for the current lack of productivity in
Congress. Maybe some blame, but most of it currently has to go elsewhere. Reid
is acting like an obsessed dictator.
What will President Clinton do in her eight years?
MapleDon mentioned the 36,000 illegal aliens that were released by Obama last
year. Here is the rest of the information from the Center of Immigration Studies
that goes with it: There were 87,000 offenses cumulatively involved.
9,000 had serious drug convictions.2,600 had aggravated assault
convictions.1,700 had weapons charge convictions. 400 had sexual
assault convictions. 300 had kidnapping convictions. 200 had
murder convictions.And yet this administration ultimately decided to
let these convicted felon detainees back lose into the American public. I now
have a much better idea of what Obama thinks about American rule of law.
Obviously not much. Apparently, pandering to the Hispanic sector of society for
their votes is much more important. This information is very disgusting and
The GOP won't, can't lead on this or any other issue.
Frozen FractalsWell, what I think would happen is that Rubios plan
would be seen as too involved for illegals to do, and the Democrats would not
support it. The 10 year wait, the get in line at the end, the background check
and biometric data, the fines, ect. would likely be seen by Democrats as asking
too much of illegals and would be vetoed by Reid in the Senate. Reid does that
by not bringing it up for a vote at all as he does with everything he does not
like. If somehow it passed the Senate, President Obama would veto it. So if a
Rubios bill ever got to the floor of the Senate it would likely be amended all
over the place and end up not looking like the one Joe Blow listed above. And
in that case, many Republicans previously supporting it would then jump ship.
@The Rock"It is obvious that a key strategy for Democrats is to stuff
the ballot box with illegal votes from illegal aliens."Except
there's no evidence of that. Now, if you were merely arguing that they see
electoral benefits in providing citizenship to a bunch of undocumented
immigrants, yeah that's totally a legit observation.
JoeBlow,You left out one major component of the rejected plan –
citizenship. Why does citizenship even enter in? Why does it have to be
included in any plan? Those conditions all sound good to me, but NOT if they
lead to citizenship. Legal residency, OK, but NOT citizenship.
@happy2behere"do you think the Democrats would support it, because I
don't. I haven't heard from them yet on his plan, have you? If they
would support it, then I think the vast majority of Republicans would see Marcos
plan as a reasonable."Republicans would be more likely to
support Rubio's plan if Democrats got behind it? Usually Democratic support
is treated as a sign for Republicans to jump off of something these last few
Seems to me, and obvious from the posts so far, that there is zero tolerance for
any immigration reform that might pass the US Congress and Senate, then signed
by the President.The bogeyman of the illegal haunts the nightmares
of the conspiratorialist wacko fringe of the American public. And this tail
wags the dog of the Republican party.Common sense has left the
country, and we are now dictated to by Fox news junkies. Sad.
In the opinion of this conservative Republican, who supported the Citizens
United Decision, there is only one reason that Republicans are even talking
immigration reform. That reason is the Citizens United Decision.Big
business wants amnesty so they can hire very cheap labor legally. I would not be
surprised to find that these businesses went to the Republican leadership and
told them: "If you pass immigration reform we will contribute millions to
your party. If we don't we will give it to the Democrats."Blackmail.It is obvious that a key strategy for Democrats is to
stuff the ballot box with illegal votes from illegal aliens. Legalizing millions
of future Democrat voters who are only here because they want free government
money is committing treason against all things conservative. It is political
suicide for anyone interested in a government that actually obeys the
constitution. These people will never vote for anyone who supports the
constitution.If this happens, freedom will have zero success of
becoming the norm before the second coming.
JoeBlowTo prevent illegals from being hired would not be that
difficult. A real geen card with biometrics, photo, fingerprint, bar codes and
other non-counterfeitable measures. Require employers to verify before hiring.
I used to work at a company in California that had many illegals. To get
documents they went to McArthur Park near downtown L.A. and paid for phoney
green card, SSN card, driver license, ect. The employer did not question the
documents and was glad to have the "cheap" labor. Fine and or jail
employers found to be hiring illegals and watch the influx of illegals dry up.
However, we both know that the Republicans and Democrats see money and votes in
not really wanting to create a system to stop illegals, so in the end nothing
but talk ever happens. And if something does happen it likely will be more
amnesty, no increased border enforcement, as was the case in 1986.
Progress?There will be no progress on anything...other
than progress the Republicans and the Republican Political Machine achieve...taking down the Obama Administration...as well as taking
down any person who dares to run against the Republican Political Machine.To verify...source the Louis Powell Memo, action plans
emanating from the Koch Republican Think Tanks (HF, AEI, CATO etc.) daily
talking points memos directing Republican News Network and affiliates as well as
Republican Political Machine emissaries Boehner and McConnell.
A "polling" organization WILL return any results you want - as long as
you pay them enough money. Notice that the article doesn't dare get into
specifics of HOW the polling was done.Take the challenge - do you
own "polling", count the number of comments here and on other sites that
are AGAINST amnesty in any form. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see
that their polling is biased.ANYBODY can say they represent the Tea
Party, or the Republican Party, or the Democratic Party - that doesn't make
it so.This article simply points out the extent to which the cheap
labor lobby will go to deceive the public. To them, this works MUCH cheaper
than actually paying a fair wage.
"Bodes well"? What you fail to report is the fact that this
administration (without any complaint by you) released 36,000 criminals who were
in this country illegally. Where's the compassion?This is all
about power and you know it, but think the rest of us can be duped by your phony
calls for compassion and keeping families together, disregarding the future of
this country, let alone the rule of law. This is about one-party
rule for the Democratic Party. This is about gaining congregants for churches.
This is about cheap labor for businesses. That's it. These three main
groups have personal agendas behind their push for amnesty. There's money
and power to be gained by them. And none of the three groups cares at all if you
lose your job or if this nation falls apart. "Bodes well"?
It depends on what you hope to gain.
What the Democrats (and the Chamber of Commerce) want is nothing but amnesty,
pure and simple, and the goal (at least for the Democrats) is to make all the
illegals into voters before the 2016 elections. They, and their accomplices in
the media will convince Latinos that the evil Republicans hate Hispanics and
that the Democrats are their friends and saviors and thereby "ensure they
will vote Democrat for 1200 years."Sadly, capitulation on
immigration "reform" by passing amnesty will seal the destruction of the
rule of law as the foundation of our country, and accelerate our death spiral
into pandering class warfare to perpetuate power by Democrats.I
doubt is amnesty can be stopped at this point. The Republicans lack the guts to
even try any more.
And you believed the president? Wow, after all the things that have been
said?I have some swamp land..........
"If that is the Senate bill, your facts are incorrect"I
never said it was the Senate Bill. I said it was Rubios plan.And my
facts could very well be wrong. They came from foxnews. Google
Rubio foxnews truth about my plan.
@JoeBlowIf that is the Senate bill, your facts are incorrect. It
contained language that allows any administration to stop the enforcement
provisions. And gave waivers whenever they wanted to. It never
reimbursed those with stolen ids, or social security numbers for their costs to
get their identity back. And the money paid went to a training program for
citizenship. It also would have allowed 30 million to come here in ten years,
the population of Canada. It also doubled legal immigration and tripled work
visas. according to the Congressional budget office it would increase
unemployment and decrease wages for decades. The bill was toxic to America, and
he ended up backing away from it.
Happy,Do I think the Dems would support it? Probably not.But then, we are now in such a partisan environment, that the chance of either
party supporting anything the other side proposes is slim.Also, I
dont think Rubios plan is really serious.All of the "waits"
in there are insuring that NOTHING is done for years and years if ever.Seriously, what plan could ever "prevent illegal immigrants from being
hired."And this "Wait at least 10 years and get in line
behind those working through the immigration system." What do they do in
those 10 years? Are they allowed to stay? Realistically, how long are we
looking at. 20 years? 30 years?Because, at the end of the day,
politicians would much rather TALK a good immigration strategy, than actually
implement one.And that goes for the GOP as well.
JoeBlowMarco Rubios plan looks reasonable. What I wonder Joe is do
you think the Democrats would support it, because I don't. I haven't
heard from them yet on his plan, have you? If they would support it, then I
think the vast majority of Republicans would see Marcos plan as a reasonable.
From what I have seen, this article is misleading.Yes, given the
right set of circumstances, I think that you could get 70+ % of Tea Partyers to
favor immigration reform.But, lets look at Marco Rubio's plan.
This plan was overwhelmingly rejected by the Tea Party.1) submit
biometric data in order to pass multiple national security and criminal
background checks2) Pay $2,000 in fines, pay taxes, and learn English and
American civics.3) Wait at least 10 years and get in line behind those
working through the immigration system.4) Wait until we have a system in
place to prevent illegal immigrants from being hired.5) Wait until we have
a system in place to track people who overstay their visas.6) Wait until
we implement plans to spend at least $5.5 billion dollars to secure the border
The Tea Party basically abandoned Rubio because of this immigration
plan.Can you imagine what would have to be in a plan that they would
McLaughlin & Associates is a polling company that guarantees their results
will support a company or organizations stand on a specific issue. With billions
of dollars at stake they are not going to arrive at a position that discredits
the person paying for the poll. This is another push to allow
business to replace our STEM graduates with foreign citizens. We already produce
3 STEM graduates for every new job opening each year.
Be not deceived. This is not about the well-being of you, me, and the country.
Rather it is about cheap labor and enhanced North American church membership
recruitment opportunities. Greed and weakness of faith are causing
various parties in this state to compromise basic principles of right and wrong.