Comments about ‘Satanism tests boundaries of religious expression at Harvard’

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Published: Tuesday, May 13 2014 3:30 p.m. MDT

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Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

I wonder how many of those who defended this as free speech would have been so quick to defend a similar event mocking Islam as just good old fashioned free speech?

I'm Catholic and although this event wouldn't have bothered me, the hypocritical left is what bothers me.

JasonStevenson
Salt Lake City, UT

Harvard President Drew Faust happens to be a woman.
The author of this article assumed she was a man.
Dr. Faust is a well-known historian of the Civil War and the American South,and the author of six books, including "Mothers of Invention: Women of the Slaveholding South in the American Civil War" (University of North Carolina Press, 1996).

Understands Math
Lacey, WA

@Chris B:

So you're calling the left hypocritical because in a fictional scenario you've imagined, you've imagined that the left would have reacted in a different way?

Strawman fallacy.

scwoz
gambier, oh

Can you imagine what would occur in the guise of academic freedom a group of students wanting to know what it was like to be in the early 20th century south and decided to hold a cross burning so they could examine it cross culturally. The truth is these young people have no idea that they are messing with real powers and not just what they believe is third world fears of charms and good luck tokens. No matter what the reason celebrating Satan and even talking about him as we are doing does nothing but empower him in ways we can’t imagine. For those who remember, Thou shalt have no other gods before me, thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or earth beneath...Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain...Thou shalt love the Lord with all thy heart and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind...thous halt love thy neighbor as thy self.

Hamath
Omaha, NE

The Satanic club needs a new name. By definition, Satanic implies supernatural. It's defined that way. If they don't believe in the supernatural as they say, this sounds more like a group of atheists that are trying to make a point but who are not being up front about their beliefs (or lack thereof).

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

So much for conservatives standing up for "religious freedom". It only matters if it is their "religious freedom". Hypocrites.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

@ Ranch. This isn't freedom of religion it is mocking Christian religion, period. Respect is (or used to be) a mark of civility. How come they or you don't mock Islam, just Christians? Hypocrites!

The Wraith
Kaysville, UT

As a liberal I would support both the satanists in their right to hold this mass or the right of any other group to mock any other religion including Islam. Satire and parody have a long and honorable role in human history. I am greatly distressed when I see extremists from any religion respond with violence to someone drawing a religious in a cartoon for example. I believe in supporting the rights of freedom of speech and freedom of expression even if that speech or expression mocks something I hold sacred. You may find it disrespectful, offensive, or rude but you should still fight for it to be expressed.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@Mountanman;

How is this not about religious freedom? Respect is earned, and as far as I can see, no religion (neither Christianity, Islam, Satanism, etc.) has earned any respect. Your gods are all warmongers.

Bob A. Bohey
Marlborough, MA

In the U.S.A. to allow one religion in the public square means all religions are allowed in the public square. Satanism is a religion like it or not. The only practical position is to allow no religion in the public square. Religion belongs under ones own tree and vine as our county's forefathers intended.

GZE
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

I seem to recall that when the issue was opening a government meeting with prayer, Christians admonished non-Christians to be respectful and/or leave the room. They also stated that since non-Christians did not believe in the diety being addressed, it should not bother them; they should simply consider it a small waste of time.

What, exactly, is different in this scenario?

gmlewis
Houston, TX

@JasonStevenson - The article seems to correctly identify Pres. Faust as a woman:

"Harvard President Drew Faust said in a statement that the black mass "abhorrent" and "flagrantly disrespectful and inflammatory."

She also said ..."

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: The Wraith, you should still fight for it to be expressed?

The Father of Modern Satanism". Crowley's wicked life and his intimate association with Freemasonry are both well known 33° Mason, " he asked people to call him "The Beast 666." Crowley believed that he was literally the anti-messiah During the first World War, Crowley transferred his activities to America." He was expelled from Italy because authorities accused his disciples of sacrificing human infants in occult rituals.

Charles Manson family member Susan Atkins As a former associate of Anton LaVey’s(Church of Satan)who danced for him and spent personal time with him before joining the Manson family,Atkins was privy to conversations with LaVey before he became popular.

“Anton as a Satanist does believe in the God of the bible but he refused to worship him and made a conscious decision to worship Satan instead.”

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." —2nd Thessalonians 1:8

The Wraith
Kaysville, UT

@Sharrona

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it ~ Voltaire

I'm glad we have the right to free speech. So I respond to you with a resounding YES that I will defend a person's right to free speech even if I don't agree with that speech. There are things people can say that violate the law (you can't incite violence against a specific person, you can't say you have a bomb on an airplane) and I support limits such as these.

Otherwise I support the rights of people to express their beliefs even if I find the belief repugnant. I despise racism but I will support the right of a group like the KKK to organize and express themselves. I would never burn a U.S. flag in protest but I support the right of people to do that. This is what is known as supporting the Constitution even when it's difficult.

The Wraith
Kaysville, UT

Sorry the quote is from Evelyn Beatrice Hall, not Voltaire.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: The Wraith, I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend *“to the death” your right to say it , *You Would really defend Satanism to the death?

The better explanation appears to be that the variously worded quote is the product of Evelyn Beatrice Hall, writing after Voltaire, who attempted to capture the essence of Voltair's views on censorship.

Aleister Crowley on Human Sacrifice: XXX rated But,I Censored it, would you?. Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men!(Acts 5:29).

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 Timothy 4:1. E.g..,

Air Force Academy adapts to pagans, druids, witches and Wiccans Officials say an $80,000 Stonehenge-like worship center underscores a commitment to embrace all religions.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

gze

"What, exactly, is different in this scenario?"

You tell us, what would be different if the KKK wanted to hold such a meeting at Harvard? Would you be quick to defend that?

SlopJ30
St Louis, MO

scwoz - "The truth is these young people have no idea that they are messing with real powers . . "

The first time I come across a credible first-person account (by which I mean an account from someone without an obvious political or religious trench to defend), I might consider that Satan is more than just the ultimate boogeyman held up to scare the insecure masses into obedience. Until then . . OH, NO; LOOK! SATAN!!

Just kidding. Gotcha.

The Wraith: "You may find it disrespectful, offensive, or rude but you should still fight for it to be expressed."

Wellllll . . not really. "Freedom of speech" also allows people to object when they feel they're being mocked. I'm with you to a point, but I'm not going to fight for it "to be expressed." I would tell these people flat out to stop the nonsense; they're not being provocative, they're being immature tools. I WOULD object to the government attempting to arrest or prosecute them, but that's not the case. I don't believe a university should feel obligated to allow any group whatsoever to use its facilities. That's not a free speech issue.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

What is the origin of Satan if not the Christian religion and the Bible. In Mormonism he is the brother of Jesus, if one has a problem with Satan perhaps they should take it up with god who in Mormonism is the father of the two. I think it is probably the devil in man himself that causes mans troubles, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to hold a few ceremonies to ask Satan to back off a bit, for those folks that believe in that kind of thing.

Demiurge
San Diego, CA

I'd say the Harvard students proved their point about freedom of religion: it doesn't exist as a rule. One must be of an "approved" religion.

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