Quantcast
Sports

CougarLinks: Making the case for BYU being included in the new SEC, ACC scheduling plans

Comments

Return To Article
  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    May 19, 2014 2:50 p.m.

    No playoff for U
    Salt Lake City, UT

    btw, in the "BCS era"

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 5
    Utah 4

    11+ Win Seasons
    BYU 4 (mostly over a slate of garbage teams)
    Utah 2

    BYU has as many AP Top 25 finishes and more 11+ win seasons during the "BCS era", than Utah does in their entire history.

    ----------

    BTW,

    BCS Bowl appearances:
    Utah 2
    BYU ZERO

    BCS Bowl victories:
    Utah 2
    BYU ZERO

    ...the only stat that matters. And you get SKUNKED.

    Debate: Won

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2014 9:30 a.m.

    @ BigCougar

    This was my original question.

    "The question is, would BYU have the resume they do if they were members of a P5 conference?"

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    May 15, 2014 9:34 p.m.

    Chris B
    Salt Lake City, UT said:

    "And the ACC just decided that mid-major byu will be treated like any other mid-major like Utah state or Wyoming!

    You are OUT!"

    Utah St. almost knocked off Auburn a couple of years ago.
    Wyoming has played SEC teams, almost beat Nebraska last season, and hosted Texas. Yes the Longhorns played at Wyoming. They mid be mid-majors but do get to play power conference teams.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    May 15, 2014 7:59 p.m.

    @2fer
    "In the BCS era Utah had a much better resume than BYU. More bowl wins, more BCS bowl wins, more wins against BCS schools, etc. I wasn't trying to take a shot at BYU. That is the serious question that needs to be answered."

    What question needs answering? BYU had a great run from the mid-late 70's through the mid 90's with an unprecedented season and a National Championship (something no other team outside of a power conference has been able to match in the modern era).

    Utah had a much much shorter run with significantly fewer high points but 2 really great seasons mised in. Utah sent a lot of guys to the NFL (especially in the previous decade) but had little to no impact collegiately with awards/recoginition, while BYU had significantly more success with players on the collegiate level with a Heisman winner, Outland Trophy winners, Davey O'Briens, Doak Walker, 1st team All-Americans, etc etc and good success early on sending guys to the NFL.

    If this were poker, one National Championship will always trump 2 BCS Bowl wins.

    It is what it is.

  • Jumbojimbo Cheyenne, WY
    May 15, 2014 5:10 p.m.

    I'm one of those realistic die hard BYU fans and Utah haters. Look I get why the ACC/SEC doesn't want to play us. We haven't perform as well as we should have the last few years. I get that Independence was the best option for us, as well as Utah was the best option for the PAC 12 after loosing the bid to convince Texas. We have to perform well now to get in, Utah performed well at the right moment and that is why they got in. They don't have storied history, they are a public school meaning not a Mormon school.They got in because they won at the right time. At the same time Utah won't do well. So Utah fans enough of the we are better than you. Enough of the no one cares about you. People will play us, big teams as well, but we will have to earn the right to get that automatic tie in. As Utah collapses in the PAC 12, you will see that no one wants to play you either, oh I mean other than as a easy win from a power conference.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 4:49 p.m.

    The last 4 sentences of the article by Dennis Dodd on CBSSports website eloquently sums up byu's predicament.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 15, 2014 4:00 p.m.

    Chris B,

    Please stop embarrassing yourself with your ridiculous assertions. BYU's football program has a very strong history of high level competition. At least enough to qualify for inclusion in a major conference. While it is true they don't have a BCS bowl win under their belt, I don't believe Colorado has one in the BCS era. Colorado did play in the Fiesta Bowl in 2001, but lost. So even though they were in the Big 12 for a long time and had decent success in years past, it has been a long time. So while BYU's high level success is years in the past, it should qualify them for inclusion as much as Utah's recent success does. Otherwise, Colorado doesn't belong in a major conference either. If the Big East deal hadn't fallen apart, BYU would likely be in. If BYU had been willing to compromise on TV rights, they might have made it into the Big 12 as a football only school. I don't think their play on the field is keeping them out, as much as you'd like to believe it is. So give it a rest, please.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 15, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    So BYU got kicked to the curb by the ACC & SEC! LOL!

    What gives BYU fans the right to demand that schools play them? If they don't think you are worthy then tough. Move along.

    BYU chose it's own path to "band of buddies independence." Live with it.
    And the day of independence becoming intramural is almost here.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 15, 2014 2:10 p.m.

    Uteanymous
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    - BYU isn't regularly on par with Alabama or Ohio State. But good luck arguing that Iowa State, Purdue, Wake Forest, and at least a dozen other power-conference teams are worthier opponents than BYU. That those schools happen to be lucky enough to play in conferences that have been granted "elite" status makes them elite programs in name only.

    __________

    Nothing like a frantic BYU fan declaring what schools belong to a conference or not. What criteria do you use? LOL!

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    May 15, 2014 2:05 p.m.

    Rose Bowl call yet?
    Salt Lake City, UT
    tomahawk

    Remind us the last time Utah beat Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Texas, Boise State, or Washington.

    ----------

    The issue is about BYU and whether they should be given an exception as a mid-major. Utah has nothing to do with the issues whatsoever.

    So what is your point?

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    May 15, 2014 2:04 p.m.

    brs27
    Beaver, UT
    tomahawk

    Notre Dame isn't being granted an exception based on their most recent 10 years of work.

    ---------

    BYU isn't even anywhere in the same universe as Notre Dame. I don't know why you people continue to compare your program to theirs. It's like comparing your bicycle to a Ferrari.

    Notre Dame has won numerous national championships. They are one of the top 3 most storied and respected programs in the history of football. Everyone in the United States knows who Notre Dame is, know their fight song, and knows those gold helmets. Notre Dame has consistently played a rigorous schedule against power teams from every conference in the nation, and rarely ever plays a gimme game versus the likes of Savannah State or Idaho State.

    Notre Dame has looooong since qualified as a power team. They qualify more as a power conference team than 98% of teams that are actually in power conferences.

    Don't even ATTEMPT to try and paint little old never-done-nothin, nobody-knows-anything-about-them Brigham Young University anywhere near that same light.

    That is, if you want any semblance of even the slightest shred of credibility.

  • Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 1:02 p.m.

    The ACC's decision is just a convenient way of being able to schedule OOC games against P5 bottom dwellers like Utah and claim them as "elite" opponents.

    The truth is, a team that is incapable of winning a road game against a fellow PAC 12 member with a winning record doesn't have a prayer of ever getting an invite to the playoffs, so playing OOC games against ACC and SEC teams is irrelevant as far as Utah's playoff chances are concerned.

  • Tajemnica Santa Monica, CA
    May 15, 2014 12:25 p.m.

    continued...

    unless your definition of "almost always" is 25% of the time. If that is the case you're right on.

  • Tajemnica Santa Monica, CA
    May 15, 2014 12:23 p.m.

    @Chris B

    I was curious to see how accurate your assessment on your last comment was so I did exactly what you requested,

    "Go look at the past many years of college football. An 11-1 team in the big boy conferences almost always would be included in a 4 team playoff."

    As usual you are way off the mark. I looked at the second to last (pre bowls/national championship) polls of all the big boy conference teams since 2002. In those 12 seasons, 9 seasons would have had big boy teams with 11-1 records or better left out of a 4 team playoff. Only 2002, 2003, and 2011 would have had all big boy teams with 11-1 or better records in the playoffs. I must agree with Chamberlain on this one. Its only a matter of time before it expands again. In utah's glory days of '04 and '08 had they been a member of the PAC 10 at that point, they would have been left out both times. (based solely on the AP poll) Although I don't thing they'd have been undefeated were they in the PAC 10.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 11:21 a.m.

    Cahmberlain,

    Go look at the past many years of college football. An 11-1 team in the big boy conferences almost always would be included in a 4 team playoff

  • Chamberlain Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 10:28 a.m.

    Seems like a lot of panic over nothing.

    We don't even know what specific criteria the selection committee will be using for the playoffs and the four-team playoff format won't last more than a couple of years before it's expanded to eight teams.

    With only four spots available and five power conferences, plus Notre Dame, it's a given that one, two or even three P5 champions will be left out of the playoffs every year. It won't take long for the hounds to start baying to expand the playoffs when 11-1, Top 5 P5 teams are routinely left on the outside looking in.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 9:22 a.m.

    This ACC news of not including byu as a power conference team is HUGE news!

    This is a big blow to the quest for relevance AND to the collective byu ego.

    No one wants you.

    No one thinks you are power conference quality

    No one cares about 1984 but you

    You are a mid major just like Wyoming!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 9:21 a.m.

    And the ACC just decided that mid-major byu will be treated like any other mid-major like Utah state or Wyoming!

    You are OUT!

  • jazzer St. George, UT
    May 15, 2014 9:16 a.m.

    In my opinion maybe BYU isn't worried about playing in a big time conference. At the end of the day, they are a school who is giving these kids a chance to play football, get a good education and become better men for it. It could be just me, but I do think there is more to life then playing for a big time conference. This independancy is allowing these kids to play teams across the country and to play on ESPN.

  • No playoff for U Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 9:01 a.m.

    2fer

    In the PAC era, Utah has proven that they don't belong. Policies to play other P5 teams OOC are simply a convenient way of being able to count P5 bottom dwellers like Utah and Indiana as "elite" opponents.

    It'll be interesting to see if the selection committee will be fooled by labels, instead looking past the labels to substance.

    btw, in the "BCS era"

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 5
    Utah 4

    11+ Win Seasons
    BYU 4
    Utah 2

    BYU has as many AP Top 25 finishes and more 11+ win seasons during the "BCS era", than Utah does in their entire history.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 15, 2014 8:42 a.m.

    Chris B:
    Why are you laughing at BigCougar? You do realize he was referencing Sagarin ratings when he stated BYUs SOS was harder than Alabama's (38 is better than 39). So you're laughing at Sagarin ratings? Oh, of course, I forgot you know more than they do right? LOL

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2014 9:04 p.m.

    @ Uteanymous

    In the BCS era Utah had a much better resume than BYU. More bowl wins, more BCS bowl wins, more wins against BCS schools, etc. I wasn't trying to take a shot at BYU. That is the serious question that needs to be answered.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    May 14, 2014 6:40 p.m.

    @Uteanymous

    "proof positive that Utah is "elite" in name only."

    Since when were they "elite" even in that? They have never at any point been considered an "elite" program whether in name or in deed.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 14, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    2fer

    Utah doesn't have BYU's resume and the Utes spent more than a century playing in the WAC/MWC and conferences that were even worse.

    The Utes haven't accomplished anything of significance since joining the PAC 12, and precious little before then - only FIVE lifetime AP Top 25 finishes, proof positive that Utah is "elite" in name only.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2014 4:31 p.m.

    skywalker,

    I'm not concerned about byu asking for an exemption.

    I'm just already laughing when the SEC tells byu "no you're a mid major just like boise and San jose state and Utah state"

    The point of their rule is to force SEC teams to NOT play a mid-major that game, and all those teams including byu are mid-majors.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2014 4:29 p.m.

    skywalker

    Of course the exemption for byu and boise wouldn't be mutually exclusive. That's the whole point. As brought up on an article in the "other" newspaper a week or so ago by a byu fan writer, this writer(I don't think the des news will let me put his name but you can go search) mentioned doubt that the SEC would give byu an exemption because then it opens up a Pandora's box of who do you offer exemptions to? Those were his words, not mine.

    You do understand this right? And it doesn't matter to the SEC that byu is independent and needs the games - they don't care. They have no more reason to give byu an exmpetion than they do to give fresno, Utah state, boise, san jose State, south florida, or Arkansas State an exemption, all teams who have been good lately

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2014 4:26 p.m.

    @BigCougar

    byu's strength harder than Alabama's?

    LOL!

    Good spin. That based on looking purely at record of opponents and not strength of schedule.

    So a byu game against a 6-6 WAC team would be given the same strength as an Alabama game against a 6-6 SEC team.

    Good try though.

    Do you really believe those games are "equal"?

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2014 3:33 p.m.

    "As the SB Nation article documented, BYU has a much stronger football resume than many of the so-called "elite" teams in the P5 conferences."

    The question is, would BYU have the resume they do if they were members of a P5 conference?

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2014 2:39 p.m.

    May 14 "ACC teams may consider playing ACC teams as nonconference foes"
    Local translation "even fewer schedule slots available for independent foes".

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    May 14, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    Ken

    You need to understand that it's not an either or proposition for BYU and any other school, say Boise State, to request an exemption - they're not mutually exclusive, you know.

    Why are you so concerned with BYU requesting an exemption, any way.

    You can't even handle your conference schedule, let alone think about scheduling an SEC team.

    With all of your whining, you conveniently ignore the fact that U get to count Colorado as an "elite" opponent freebie every year.

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    May 14, 2014 1:52 p.m.

    Cracks me up to see Ute fans, in the 90s the biggest complainers about the unfairness of the have/have-not college football landscape, become the biggest apologists for the corrupt system now in place. Count me amused but not surprised.

    And up here in UW/WSU country, the inclusion of the Utes and Colorado elicits the same responses from long-time PAC fans as it does from ASU fans. The only difference is, Wassou fans are thrilled to not always be the conference bottom-dweller anymore. They have big plans.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    May 14, 2014 1:30 p.m.

    @Howeird S
    "But... do you really think BYU deserves an exemption because the fans think BYU provides a challenge equal to current conference members?...Is it the opinion of the fan base that is the qualifying factor for an exemption?"

    ...and it's not the opinion of haters that is the qualifying factor for an exemption, either. Generally speaking about half of the schools in p5 conferences are decent to good and half are mediocre to terrible with many of the same having poor SOS rankings. Some are historically bad.

    ute angst/envy isn't a reason for the SEC or the ACC to not grant BYU a scheduling exception and rather than base it off of hatred I think they'll look at a lot of more relevant factors to make that decision including a willingness by BYU to play anyone anywhere. SEC schools like getting more home games.

    Playing more road games won't make the BYU home crowd happy but with an 80" TV and the ability to watch nearly every game in HD, I don't mind not fighting the traffic to watch a good game in the comforts of my own home.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    May 14, 2014 1:19 p.m.

    @Howeird S
    ""All 65 teams in the p5 conferences do one thing that BYU does not do... play a minimum of 9 games against power conference opponents"

    What does that matter when some of those p5 opponents end up being lame football schools like Utah, Colorado, Cal, Purdue, Kansas, Arkansas, Kentucky, NC St, Iowa St, Illinois, etc?

    What good did playing a top 10 strength of schedule do Utah last year? Anyone walking around wearing badges in uteville proclaiming their SOS ranking? Did players and fans each get a trophy at the end of the season picnic?

    Nope.

    No trophies or Bowls either, well I take that back, judging by the comments being posted here by ute fans, they obviously go to the toilet bowl quite a bit.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    May 14, 2014 12:42 p.m.

    @Howeird S
    "There is no reason BYU'S schedule should be considered equivalent to a p5 schedule.

    BYU can level the playing field by scheduling 9 p5 games a year or joining a p5 conference, but until then there is no justification for a BYU exemption."

    BYU's most recent strength of schedule was ranked 38th toughest which puts it ahead of Alabama ranked at 39 according to the Sagarin ratings. BYU's schedule ranked higher than Ohio St, Florida St, Clemson, Wisconsin, Michigan St and Michigan, Baylor, Louisville, TT, Vandy, Nebraska, Iowa (most of the B1G for that matter), Miami-FL, GT, UNC, Ill, etc. Also,
    BYU's schedule ranking wasn't far behind schools like Notre Dame, Oregon, AZ, OK, etc.

    They showed you don't need to be in a P5 conference to have an equivalent schedule and was able to put together a schedule ranked higher than most of the Big 10 and higher than National Champion Florida St or Alabama. BYU's not ducking anyone (can't say the same about some p5 schools however...).

    I know in uteville facts don't count as much as wishful thinking or blind hatred but there you have it.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    May 14, 2014 12:40 p.m.

    @The Anti Chris

    "And when the PAC kicks out utah for poor performance in the major sports then where does that leave u?"

    You have no idea how badly most of the PAC schools regret inviting Utah in a quick reaction to keep up with the joneses when Texas and the other schools that the PAC really wanted said no. On the campus of ASU, there isn't one person who is glad to see Utah in the PAC. In an unscientific poll conducted last month, most ASU fans rated San Diego State, Boise State, and BYU (there are a lot of Mormons in Arizona) over Utah as better schools that should have been invited to the PAC than Utah. I couldn't stop laughing when I read the results.

  • The Anti Chris Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2014 10:16 a.m.

    CB,
    And when the PAC kicks out utah for poor performance in the major sports then where does that leave u?
    U can't ride the coat tails of the other PAC Schools forever.

    When was the last time u played an SEC school? End of discussion.

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    May 14, 2014 10:04 a.m.

    Tajmenica/maq(when you change your name and forget and then put "continued"...

    If the small conference teams were too inflexible to be able to schedule games with the SEC anyways, there would be no need for the mandatory game against power conference teams.

    But apparently the SEC knows something that you don't if they feel it necessary to say all SEC teams must play a power conference team.

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    May 14, 2014 10:03 a.m.

    @Tajemnica,

    There is no reason to not give a better Boise team an exception. There are plenty of SEC teams that may be interested in playing Boise over BYU, as Boise has been a better program.

    The fact that Boise has fewer games hardly changes the argument, as teams from other conferences play each other all the time. In fact, every team in every conference does it every year - so apparently its not that much of a hurdle.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    May 14, 2014 9:39 a.m.

    Tajemnica

    It's obvious that the haters are more about hating, than they are about objectively evaluating who's deserving, and who's not.

    If the overall objective of the SEC and ACC is to strength their OOC schedules, then including BYU in the mix should be a no brainer.

    As the SB Nation article documented, BYU has a much stronger football resume than many of the so-called "elite" teams in the P5 conferences.

  • Tajemnica West Valley, Utah
    May 14, 2014 9:12 a.m.

    continued... It becomes less a matter of who "deserves" an exception but more a matter of who has the flexibility to schedule a game. That lies with the independents. Give it to Army and Navy too for all I care. Any other independent teams are just laughable.

  • Tajemnica West Valley, Utah
    May 14, 2014 9:09 a.m.

    @Chris B

    You didn't read the actual SB nation article at all did you? Which is ironic since the main talking points were posted right before your last comment by Uteanymous.

    You are right though, the SEC could care less that BYU needs the exception more than other schools. However, since the point of the article is that BYU is a more deserving team than a lot of P5 members (don't worry your utes weren't listed) it would be advantageous for the SEC to schedule BYU over a lot of bottom dwellers from P5 conferences that are "elite programs in name only."

    The reason it would be advantageous to give BYU the exception rather than teams like Boise and Fresno (besides having a longer period of success) is because of BYUs independence. It will be A LOT more difficult for the SEC to schedule games with teams that already have 8-9 games set each season due to being conference members. An independent has a much more flexible schedule. Any P5 school that wants to schedule BYU will get the game in a heartbeat because there are no conference games to contend with.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    May 14, 2014 8:50 a.m.

    Uteanymous

    Great summation of why BYU deserves to be included among the "elites".

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2014 8:45 a.m.

    brs27,

    You think the SEC cares that byu is independent and needs the exception?

    LOL.

    The SEC couldn't care less what is good for byu, they only care what is good for the SEC.

    And there may be a team in the SEC that wants to play Boise more than they want to play byu, or maybe a team will want an exception for playing Fresno State.

    The whole point of the rule is to force SEC teams to not play a mid-major in this mandatory power conference game, and byu is a mid-major just like boise and fresno and Utah state.

    It matters to byu that they are inedpenedent and it means they may need the exception more than Boise or Utah state, but it does not matter to the SEC.

    You seriously think the SEC cares you need the exception more than boise?

    LOL!

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 14, 2014 8:38 a.m.

    - BYU isn't regularly on par with Alabama or Ohio State. But good luck arguing that Iowa State, Purdue, Wake Forest, and at least a dozen other power-conference teams are worthier opponents than BYU. That those schools happen to be lucky enough to play in conferences that have been granted "elite" status makes them elite programs in name only.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 14, 2014 8:36 a.m.

    - The Cougars have more all-time wins than 11 AQ teams (including Florida State, Louisville and Kansas State). It would be more, but they only began playing football in 1922. Their all-time winning percentage is better than the following 33 AQ schools:

    Arizona, Louisville, Oregon State, Baylor, Maryland, Purdue, California, Minnesota, Rutgers, Duke, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Illinois, Missouri, Stanford, Indiana, NC State, TCU, Iowa, North Carolina, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Kansas, Oklahoma State, Virginia, Kansas State, Ole Miss, Washington State, Kentucky, Oregon, and Wisconsin.

    Sure, BYU racked up wins in the WAC and MWC, and other lesser conferences, but come on. Rutgers is considered a worthy out-of-conference opponent despite being forever mediocre in the Big East and its ruins (after 122 years of independence). Louisville was in Conference USA 10 years ago. Pretty much everybody has had the chance to pile up wins in weak leagues.

    - continued -

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 14, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    Howard S.

    "do you really think BYU deserves an exemption..."

    Let the facts speak for themselves:

    According to an article published by SB Nation:

    Counting Notre Dame, there are currently 65 power programs, as recognized by the SEC and ACC.

    - Of those 65, 24 have never won a national championship and 30 have never won a Heisman Trophy, while BYU has one of each.

    - The Cougars have an all-time record of .500 or better against 18 of the 42 power-conference teams they've played, including a 3-1 mark against Texas, the country's most advantaged program.

    - In three years of Independence, BYU has beaten six teams currently in power leagues, including Texas. In the last 10 years, that number climbs to 19, including Oklahoma. In the last 25, they've beaten 44 power-conference teams, including SEC-approved and ACC-partnered Notre Dame, twice.

    - continued -

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 13, 2014 11:02 p.m.

    @ Rose Bowl call yet?

    He lost to SDSU in 2005 who went 5-7. Bronco lost to Utah St. in 2010. The Aggies went 2-6 in the WAC that year. He lost to UVA last year, who went 0-8 in the ACC.

    Lets try another example though. Gary Patterson didn't lose to conference bottom dwellers, yet his team has struggled with the transition. You think BYU would be in a better position right now than TCU is?

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    May 13, 2014 9:22 p.m.

    Pretty simple solution. If these conferences are worried about their members maintaining a reasonable SOS in their OOC games, just allow their members to schedule OOC games against programs whose Sagarin rating has averaged 65 or better over the 2 (or 3) years before they're scheduled.

    Mission accomplished and you take all the politics out of it.

    Of course you'd have to decide whether all other P5 conference members would get an exception since a number of them wouldn't meet the Top 65 criteria.

  • Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UT
    May 13, 2014 9:03 p.m.

    2fer

    "You think BYU would have done any better?"

    Absolutely!

    Unlike Kyle, Bronco doesn't lose to fellow conference bottom dwellers like Wyoming, Colorado State, New Mexico, UNLV, Colorado and Washington State.

    -------------

    fudd

    You're desperately spinning if you're trying to equate Marshall, Iowa State, Kansas, and Louisville, with Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Texas, Boise State, and Washington.

    BYU is 5-1 versus Texas and Oklahoma. Name a comparable pair of elite teams that Utah has an equivalent record against.

    Against the best conference in the country, the SEC, the Utes are 1-6 - winless on the road (0-6), winless at home (0-0), and 1-0 at neutral sites.

    It's laughable that Utah fans have invited themselves to a discussion about scheduling OOC games against SEC teams - U haven't played an SEC team home or away since 1984.

    Stick with Idaho State and Fresno State. They're more your style.

  • Cosmo1974 Woods Cross, UT
    May 13, 2014 7:28 p.m.

    Howard S.

    Thanks for a nice, civil response. This is what the message boards should be like, respectful and courteous. To answer your second question, absolutely not. I think in considering giving BYU the exemption, the SEC should look at BYU's whole body of work and not just at recent years. At least from when LaVell began coaching. If I were a power conference team, I'd rather play team's like BYU and Boise St. instead of the lesser teams I mentioned in my previous post. The way I understand things, playing BYU would do a whole lot more for strength of schedule and any other playoff considering factors than playing these lesser teams. Having said that, strictly from a fan's perspective, I totally think BYU should get the exemption. I think BYU would only get better playing better teams therefore making them an even more attractive opponent.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 13, 2014 7:10 p.m.

    @ Uteanymous

    You think BYU would have done any better? Utah and TCU have both struggled so far, and Utah and TCU both OWNED BYU....

    @ Cosmo1974

    Syracuse and Rutgers won their conference in 2012, and Duke played in their conference championship game last year. Temple is not in a P5 conference. You make a good point, but your choice of teams was poor.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    May 13, 2014 6:49 p.m.

    Cosmo 1974

    Yours is a thoughtful and honest response.

    But... do you really think BYU deserves an exemption because the fans think BYU provides a challenge equal to current conference members?

    Boise St fans probably think the same thing.

    Is it the opinion of the fan base that is the qualifying factor for an exemption?

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    May 13, 2014 6:21 p.m.

    Lol! Is this Cougar or King of the Hill board?

    We came so close to beating #6 Georgia back in 1982 with Steve Young vs Herchel Walker 17-14 during the soggy game. Both Steve and Herchel did play in the USFL leauge at that time. We did beat U Miss with Doman and Steley and including Ole Miss.

  • Cosmo1974 Woods Cross, UT
    May 13, 2014 5:44 p.m.

    To me, it seems as though Utah "fans" or more accurately BYU "haters," don't think BYU should get the SEC exemption simply because its BYU that wants it. If any other team like Boise St., Fresno St., etc. wanted one, Utah "fans" would be all over that saying they deserve one. They probably do. I think that part of the reason BYU fans think the exemption is deserved is the fact that they believe that BYU would provide better competition than teams like Rutgers, Temple, Duke, Syracuse, etc. To my knowledge, none of these teams, or any of the other lesser teams in the power conferences have ever made any real noise in their respective conferences. And I think that is why some BYU fans think the exemption is deserved. Can anyone really say that BYU is a worse team than some of the ones I mentioned above when it seems that they are members of a power conference in name only?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 13, 2014 5:07 p.m.

    Rose Bowl call yet?:

    Elmer Fudd just ate your lunch! Why do you cougar fans always set yourselves up like that? When will you all learn how to do a little research? Why can't you see how easy it is to blow up an argument like yours when it's based on cherry picked talking points?

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    May 13, 2014 4:46 p.m.

    Rose Bowl call yet?

    "Remind us the last time Utah beat Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Texas, Boise State, or Washington.

    Remind us the last time the Utes won a road game versus a PAC team with a winning record"

    Remind us the last time BYU beat Utah?

    When was the last time BYU beat Alabama, Stanford, Marshall, Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    May 13, 2014 4:18 p.m.

    brs27

    Notre Dame is granted an exception because they are "Notre Dame", and because they have a scheduling agreement with a P5 conference, and because they play 9 P5 opponents each year... on each of these points BYU falls short of qualification.

  • Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UT
    May 13, 2014 3:54 p.m.

    tomahawk

    Remind us the last time Utah beat Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Texas, Boise State, or Washington.

    Remind us the last time the Utes won a road game versus a PAC team with a winning record.

    The truth is, the vast majority of Utah's big wins against "power conference" teams, have come against mediocre teams, including 2004, when the Ute's didn't beat a single regular season opponent that finished with better than a 7-5 record.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 13, 2014 3:46 p.m.

    It's laughable that Utah fans are even involved in the discussion - the Utes haven't played an SEC team on the road in 40 years and they've never played an SEC team at home.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 13, 2014 3:29 p.m.

    howie

    "All 65 teams in the p5 conferences do one thing that BYU does not do... play a minimum of 9 games against power conference opponents"

    What difference does it make if you play 9 games against PAC teams, if you lose the majority of those games?

    4-5, 3-6, 2-7 says it all - you simply aren't good enough to compete in a power conference.

  • brs27 Beaver, UT
    May 13, 2014 3:29 p.m.

    tomahawk

    I'm going to forego any comment on a Ute fan that has the brass to say "routinely gotten clobbered by nearly every elite program they have faced and consistently lost to power conference programs", that's just way too easy a target given recent history.

    Speaking of history, I bring it up because history matters! Notre Dame isn't being granted an exception based on their most recent 10 years of work. Before the last two years their performance was mediocre at best; evidenced by the revolving door on the coach's office in South Bend. True, BYU hasn't played in any BCS games but they were the ORIGINAL BCS busters! Utah and Boise were only allowed access to BCS games because of the uproar when BYU, and then BYU and Tulane were OBVIOUSLY excluded by the BCS committee DELIBERATELY. At that point the BCS either had to crack the door or Congress was going to begin anti-trust investigations.

    Finally, granting an exception to BYU does not mean that every deserving "mid-major" team would have to be allowed. Being an Independent means that BYU is in a unique situation; all other teams belong to competing conferences.

  • souptwins Lindon, UT
    May 13, 2014 3:25 p.m.

    Many commenters here are fans of a conference and team completely irrelevant to this situation. Sure you can express an opinion but remember, it's a biased one. I hope BYU gets the exemption but don't think it will automatically doom the program if it doesn't. Many try to assert that just "being" in a big 5 conference automatically excuses any losses and makes you better. This simply isn't true as the article points out. I've long believed there are many lower level big 5 schools that are not as good as many "mid-major" teams. It's that haughty opinion that made Utah beating Alabama so fun to watch. It's also why some programs see adding BYU to their schedule as a way to boost their SOS. There are many reasons why adding BYU makes sense more than adding just any old mid-major team. Comparing an independent to teams in a conference isn't the right approach at all. I hope it happens and if it does, it could lead to a conference affiliation even if on a limited basis.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    May 13, 2014 2:53 p.m.

    brs27
    Beaver, UT

    They're still just a flash in the pan compared to BYU

    ----------

    When are you going to let go of the belief BYU deserves inclusion based on what they did 30 years ago... while other teams that have performed substantially better than BYU over the last decade don't?

    Flash in the pan... you've got to be kidding. BSU has gone to and won multiple BCS games. They have been consistently ranked in the top 10. They have beaten numerous power conference and elite programs. They are now entering a slightly less successful stage, but their resume has a ton of accolades.

    Meanwhile, BYU never made even one BCS bowl game, let alone won one. They have routinely gotten clobbered by nearly every elite program they have faced and consistently lost to power conference programs. All BYU has done over the last decade is show they can beat on a slate of dogs, and toss in a victory here and there over a moderately decent mid-major.

    At least BSU has been a flash in the pan... while BYU can't even claim that status yet.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    May 13, 2014 2:48 p.m.

    BYU should not be granted an exception in any way shape or form.

    Reason is simple -- if you allow BYU, why not allow every other G5 team to fill the requirement? And at that point, the requirement becomes useless.

    It is not fair to the other G5 teams that BYU gets an exception and they don't, since they are all mid-majors.

    Then you get to the argument of why does BYU deserve and exception when all the other G5 teams don't? BYU's recent win-loss record? The fact that their fans THINK they should be a power team? What?

    Well then that argument goes down the drain once BYU experiences a lag in success, and other G5 teams not included experience a spike in success.

    No, it's not fair so they should not give BYU anything. They haven't earned that respect.

  • Challenge to the Foe Fargo, ND
    May 13, 2014 2:40 p.m.

    Geez, so many jabs being exchanged today. I think it would be in the best interest of the SEC to allow the exception, because BYU provides name recognition in addition to being a quality opponent. Just look at what WSU almost did to Auburn last year. I think BYU could play spoiler to SEC teams more often than the likes of a WSU.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    May 13, 2014 2:35 p.m.

    All 65 teams in the p5 conferences do one thing that BYU does not do... play a minimum of 9 games against power conference opponents.

    With a schedule consisting of a few P5 schools and mostly MWC and AAC schools, BYU does not consistently meet the competitive level of 9 P5 games.

    There is no reason BYU'S schedule should be considered equivalent to a p5 schedule.

    BYU can level the playing field by scheduling 9 p5 games a year or joining a p5 conference, but until then there is no justification for a BYU exemption.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 13, 2014 2:34 p.m.

    "BYU is making independence viable"
    Yes, BYU has done the best it can with independence - better than Utah could have done with independence. Kudos! But "viable" doesn't shed the "mid-major" label, and that is what the SEC and ACC are concerned about for scheduling.

    The line is clearly being drawn. BYU should make an effort to get inside the circle, but Plan B isn't bad either. After the 65 break away, BYU could rule the remaining mid-majors. Think of the exposure to be had winning the Division 1B National Title. That's almost guaranteed to make Sports Center.

  • brs27 Beaver, UT
    May 13, 2014 2:22 p.m.

    Back to the original comment, let's not get carried away with Boise State. Over the past decade or so they've had a great program; and props to them for making it happen in Boise, which is at least as difficult a location as Provo. But they're still just a flash in the pan compared to BYU; and now they've got to survive the loss of Chris Peterson. Let's talk again in 20 years and see how things are going.

  • 1984 for life Salt Lake City, UT
    May 13, 2014 2:06 p.m.

    Unfortunately, I believe that the majority of the posters on here are correct. I don't believe that BYU has done enough winning against the so called "power conferences" to convince them that playing and defeating BYU would enhance their resume for a playoff spot.

    Until we (BYU) start winning the majority of our games against the schools in the power conferences, I don't see why they would include BYU in any scheduling plans.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 13, 2014 2:03 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    Isn't it intesting that no big time conference wants to invite byu?

    LOL

    If byu had half the value and was half the powerhouse byu fans think they are, every conference in the nation would be calling.

    Maybe Holmoe is just busy deciding between the pac 12 and big 12 huh?

    LOL. Keep telling yourself that

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    May 13, 2014 1:55 p.m.

    I like how those first 4 posts are from utah "fans" desperate that it doesn't happen. if they truly "don't care" then they truly wouldn't care but of course their comments here prove otherwise. It truly cuts deep into their false sense of superiority (which is really just to mask their inferiority complex) that BYU is making independence viable and profitable. utah could never do such a thing, they have to depend on other much greater institutions to prop them up and carry them along like a charity case because they offer nothing on their own. Nothing.

    We'll know when the delusional desires of chris b and 54iq are actually real when they are no longer commenting on each and every BYU article. Until that time their constant hysterical and frantic posts about everything BYU does will just continue to expose the inferiority they feel and their desperation to convince themselves otherwise. lol

  • maq West Valley, Utah
    May 13, 2014 1:47 p.m.

    ...continued

    I did my research and since 2002...ONE... ONE SEC team has scheduled BYU and that was OLD MISS. So as I said before, give them the exception. Chances are, SEC teams will still not schedule BYU so it makes very little difference, although now that BYU is independent they may get a couple more.

  • Midwestcoug Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 13, 2014 1:35 p.m.

    The SB article calls lesser teams in the power conferences: "worst power-conference teams"

    That fits Utah very well! They won't get 6 wins so they'll enjoy their popcorn bowl for the holidays.

  • Tajemnica West Valley, Utah
    May 13, 2014 1:35 p.m.

    Oh come on Chris B, you are better than that. Use a different argument for a change. This is just becoming old. Are you simply copying and pasting from every other article you've ever commented on? Do you think it will actually make a difference for BYU's chances at the NC or the playoffs if they get the inclusion? Probably not. I say give it to them and let them see how they handle it. How many SEC teams have they played anyway? The answer: not many.

  • scott715 pendleton, OR
    May 13, 2014 1:26 p.m.

    The P5 is trying to separate the haves from the have nots. They need a reason to grant it.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 13, 2014 1:07 p.m.

    They aren't notre dame and don't deserve the exception.

    And frankly the sec doesn't care if it hurts byu, and they shouldn't.

    Boise is a better program and what if they want an exception?

    Or Fresno?

    I will love it when the sec tells byu "no"

    The power 5 are becoming division I and byu and the rest division II

    Pretty soon the power 5 will permanently separate and form our own playoffs with the real national title.

    The smaller schools can form their own playoffs or whatever, we don't care

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    May 13, 2014 12:35 p.m.

    Based on the same criteria, it should be even harder to exclude Army. And Navy has a Heisman winner, too... Roger Staubach.

    If religious persecution is the angle to be played, let's hope the Jehovah's Witnesses don't create a university and field a football team, because they wouldn't be able to play on Saturday... which actually might make them a great opponent for BYU, playing week nights.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 13, 2014 12:23 p.m.

    BYU should not receive any scheduling exemption greater than Utah State, Boise State, and others. If the 5 major conferences are requiring scheduling agreements with their member schools to insure a strength of schedule necessary to secure a spot in the 4 team playoff, why would they want to let a game against BYU count as a "major conference school" game ?

    BYU fan doesn't care either. All they care about is 6 wins against the easiest competition they can find to insure attendance at a meaningless bowl game.