the truth:In the Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 4:18 is an
interesting scripture regarding the creation. It reads, " 18 And the Gods
watched those things which they had ordered until they obeyed."The phrase "until they obeyed" is what I want to point out in
particular. I am not sure if this is intended to imply the elements/creations
could have disobeyed or had some form of agency. Or, maybe it is just implying
it took an amount of time to fulfill what was commanded. I
don't know the answer. Just food for thought.
The artistic beauty of the scnene is quite nice. Though it may appear that
evolution is at play. It is not. The attempt through the story was to make a
seamless transition from one day to the next. They referenced the Creater from
the beginning of the story to the end of the story. In the end - the truth is
Man did this. We choose rather to believe or not. We choose rahter to kill or
not, we choose to live moral lives, we choose to live the laws of the land. We
are given great gifts, this earth, free agency, and a Living, Loving, Savior.
@Coltakashi:"Note that Genesis is totally unlike the typical creation
myths of other cultures, which usually personify some cosmic force as a god and
use common human experiences, marriage, birth and death, etc."I
have a creation chant from the South Pacific that parallels Genesis. In this
version the animals helped create the world and the creator used his servants to
do tasks. He delegated a lot. Some of the tasks are different. He had someone
split the oceans so that there would be waves, or raise sky so that dawn would
breakthrough. After each task the chants says that he looked and approved.In the end he sends someone to explore the seas so that all the lands
would be discovered. Some people have told me that they felt that their
cultures beat the physicists because they had traditions about a big bang.When Bishop Usher came up with his bible chronology in the 1600's
he was able to pin point when God started the creation, 2:30 in the afternoon,
etc. Someone asked him, "What was he doing before?" He answered,
"Making a hell for people who would ask a question like that!"
@KellyWSmithThose that aren't well read or know the ways of the
towel don't realize the following:1. Mice rule the world.2. The dolphins tried to warn us.3. The answer is 42.4. The Earth
is an experiment to find out what the question is.5. Vogons have terrible
poetry and like interstellar bypasses.6. Don't Panic, the Guide may
or may not have the information you are looking for.7. God vanished in a
puff of logic.“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is
beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it
too?” ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Did they get the "doctrine" right? Sure? Why not?
OF course there is NO evolution.God couold not be God and use such
an inferior method of creation.God by definition would have to use a
Godly way.a God that can instantly heal, raise the deal, and do many
other miracles not based on any known natural laws,Must certainly be
capable of direct creation.There are scripture that contradict
evolution. such as the scripture of God commanding all creatures to reproduce
after their own kind. Not to mention the many scriptures that indicates there
are patterns that are followed, including creating man directly patterned after
himself.No mutation. no randomness.IF he can directly
create the spirit made fine matter he can certainly creaete the physical body as
well. Is God God or not a God?
Aronofsky drew on rabbinic legends about LED-like stones which gave light inside
the Ark. That is not in the Bible. In the Book of Ether in the Book of Mormon,
the Jaredites are described as building eight vessels based on the design of the
Ark, with illumination provided by stones touched by the finger of God. The
voyage of the Jaredites was from "Old World" to "New World" and
took a year, just as Noah's voyage took a year and ended in the "Old
World". Where did Noah start? If Adam’s home was in the Americas,
then so was the land that Noah departed from. Noah's voyage was not just
floating and waiting for the water level to drop, it was an ocean crossing, the
righteous fleeing from the wicked, just like the Jaredites, and much later, the
Lehites. Noah did not get satellite worldwide weather reports, he reported what
he saw. He had to use a dove to see past his horizon. In a heavy rain, soil is
saturated, tall mountains are "covered" by water, an inch or so deep.
It is a factual account from Noah's viewpoint.
That's not the way I remember it happening.
To "Bruce" how do you know that the Epic of Gilgamesh isn't based
on what happened with Noah? The book of Genesis was written by Moses over 400
years after the flood. So, don't you think that it is possible that in 400
years that the story could be spread around and altered by people and written
down before Moses wrote it?
Hollywood makes movies -- tells stories. Commercial films are not church media
presentations. If movies make us visit the scriptures and engage with them,
that's something. We who are observant Christians tend to forget that
people all around us go about their lives without giving a thought to scripture.
Maybe such movies as "Noah" are not the meat, or even the milk, of the
gospel, but the appetizers that get people thinking about God.
Faith is the central ingredient to all discovery. Science and Religion have huge
elements of faith. Faith denotes humility and meekness intermingled with hope.
Did the "flood" happen? I wasn't there. Can't say the
literalness or figuritiveness of the event, but let it stay where it is written
and derive the goodness it has to teach. BH Roberts speculated (admitted it too)
that it was physically impossible for the whole earth to be covered with water
20,000+ feet deep to cover the tallest mountains, but the purpose of
"baptizing" or cleansing the earth could have been accomplished with a
powerful set of rain storms that simultaneously covered the earth. Did that
happen? Who knows. Did it NOT happen? Who knows. Welcome to the world of
history, science, religion combined with faith. Aronofsky and Crowe did an
outstanding job trying to give the story definition.
@Hutterite "How could anyone know? The whole thing is entirely subjective
speculation."There are a lot of scientists who would take issue
with your implication that evolution and theories regarding the origin of the
universe (e.g., the Big Bang) are merely "subjective speculation".
I thought a more appropriate question could be: Did the movie Noah get anything
right?Maybe we can ask the Rock People.
Assuming that there are more than 4 dimensions, the word infinite takes on an
expanded meaning. In that context, I find it very easy to believe that "Let
there be light" could initiate a Big Bang experience in each of an infinite
number of parallel infinite universes.As to planets being created to
take the place of planets being celestialized, I encountered this concept in
"Discourses of Brigham Young" that I was reading last week. These quotes
were derived from "Journal of Discourses," and all of these must be
taken with a grain of salt. These volumes contained stenographic renditions of
public talks, before there were recording devices, used for historic purposes.
The prophets never went back and corrected them, so they were occasionally prone
to human error. A single teaching may have been misworded or mistranscribed, so
you have to study the entire collection to capture the generally accepted
I think there are very few people on the earth, that have had a chance to gain
perfect knowledge of the creation and the process it went through.So, other than those few people, it's going to be everyone's best
educated or non-educated guess as to what happened. Basing most of their ideas
from ancient and modern theorists, scientists, and scriptural accounts.The real argument that should be studied and researched and lived, is how to
become more Christlike. How to become worthy of eternal life. How to use the
Atonement to perfect yourself. Why waste energy speculating an event billions or
thousands of years ago?
It is naive as well as limiting in thought and belief to consider the flood
story as literally true. It first appears in The Epic of Gilgamesh which
predates the Old Testament.
How could anyone know? The whole thing is entirely subjective speculation.
The remarkable thing is that the basic narrative of Genesis One can be
illustrated by a video straight out of modern science program--and they match!
In the short space of a couple of pages, Genesis tells us the main succession of
events in the creation of the earth, as thery are.confirmed by modern science!
How did someone writing down this narrative know what modern science has earned
in just the past tree hundred years? Note that Genesis is totally
unlike the typical creation myths of other cultures, which usually personify
some cosmic force as a god and use common human experiences, marriage, birth and
death, etc. As metaphors for creation. But Genesis is a constrained, factual,
chronological narrative, that happens to prophetically match the outline of the
earth's natural history.Genesis One matches science, and
science matches Genesis One. They are in explicit agreement. This is a wonderful
exposition of this truth..
KellyWSmithSparks, NV1-The earth was not created here in this
solar system, but was created somewhere else... [?, I've heard this
before over the years, but have yet to see a single Prophetic source.]2-The earth replaced a previous one that had been here but had gone on to its
eternal glory... [?, Again - Prophetic source.]3-Seeds and
animals were placed here and did not magically appear. [You must be
implying evolution doesn't happen. Let me ask -- who kept swooping down
daily over those 4.5 billion years to change each and ever plant and animal
species, and why would you?] 4-There never was a "Big Bang"
because the Universe is infinite. [Look up BlackHoles, WhiteHoles,
BubbleUniverses and "Singularity"]5-Mankind has a direct
connection to Heavenly Parents and did not ascend through mutations as Adam and
Eve were real people.[The movie showed that.]6-God is the
moral authority as to what is right and wrong and not man because God created
man and gave him those laws to follow. [??]7-One purpose of teaching
evolution is to destroy the Bible...[Now it isn't. Charles Darwin
believed in God. Science tells us the how, God tells us the why.]
@LDS Liberal - I think you're being pretty charitable to Kelly with the
"50/50" estimate. I find a lot of beauty in this artistic
illustration of scientific and spiritual truth. I don't have to accept it
as gospel any more than I accept Kelly's version of events, but I think it
is much closer to the mark than those seven thoughts pulled from various
speculative regions. Kelly better call BYU (and my old alma mater Ricks
College, now BYUI) and tell them to stop teaching astronomy, cosmology, and
evolution. Frankly, to claim that the Bible disproves evolution is
as ridiculous as the claim by some in the scientific community that evolution
disproves the existence of God.
@KellyWSmithSparks, NV========== You are about
50/50 there my friend.Half right, and half wrong.BTW -- I
thought the film version was pretty accurate, given the producers did not
have further light and knowledge.Best "Hollywood" version
I've seen yet.
Again, we have thrust upon us the teachings of man and not of God in order to
advance an agenda and promote the popular and profitable theories of the day.But the truth is far distant from this promotion. Most people don't
realize the following teachings about the creation and have thus fallen away
into great error. 1-The earth was not created here in this solar
system, but was created somewhere else and placed here to live out its mortal
life. 2-The earth replaced a previous one that had been here but had gone
on to its eternal glory and ours will be replaced by another when it receives
its glory. 3-Seeds and animals were placed here and did not magically
appear. 4-There never was a "Big Bang" because the Universe is
infinite. 5-Mankind has a direct connection to Heavenly Parents and did
not ascend through mutations as Adam and Eve were real people.6-God is the
moral authority as to what is right and wrong and not man because God created
man and gave him those laws to follow. 7-One purpose of teaching evolution
is to destroy the Bible and its authority and message.