@NavalVetAre you STILL harping about this issue? Every reliable
source (ESPN, Yahoo) was reporting the PAC expansion being Texas, Texas Tech,
Oklahoma, OSU, Colorado, and Texas A&M. None of them reported Utah as being
a candidate until the Big 12 expansion ideas fell apart, and then Utah's
name was brought up by ESPN as being a "back-up plan".The
only thing that Chip Brown said was that IF Texas A&M backed out of the deal
and went to the SEC (which they didn't, they ended up staying in the Big
XII for a year before leaving), then Utah would be next-in-line. Hardly a
"shoo-in", since it was conditional on A&M, and remember this is
coming from the same guy who said that Notre Dame's olympic sports would be
joining the Big XII.I think I'm going to stick with ESPN on
this one, but you go ahead and cling to your fantasy all you want. I think
you're the only one in the country who believes that, but I've always
praised the Utah "man" (or is it "fan") for being the most
imaginative/delusional of college fans :)
MP:Ok I see where you got 36, but as NV pointed out it's actually 42
with 14 teams. And, in the off chance the SEC includes BYU it will be 56
opportunities.I think this is just a PR move by Holmoe that has been
blown up into something it isn't...a big story. BYU has played ONE SEC team
in the Bronco era. It is interesting to me that Slive is setting up a meeting
with Holmoe. As someone else mentioned, if he were set and didn't really
care he would have simply stated, here's the rule including ND and there
are no exceptions. At least he's willing to listen, but if think in the end
he says the rule is established and there won't be exceptions. Doesn't
change a thing for BYU in reality, so your question as to why Holmoe is doing
this?...good question. I think it's just PR to establish BYU as a national
MyPerspective:"If Holmoe truly wants to schedule an SEC
opponent, he is free to do so. He has 36 opportunities every year."Correction: the Y has 42 opportunities every year to do so. Don't
forget...the SEC is now a 14-team league.
Truth Machine:As had already been proven in these threads, if Texas
and Oklahoma had said yes, the 6 teams invited to the Pac-10 would have been
Texas, Tx. Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, and Utah. Chip Brown reported that
the Pac-10 didn't really want Okla. St. and in edging them out of the deal,
they were looking toward Kansas. Utah was already a shoo-in. Doesn't that just break your heart?
CougsndawgsWest Point , UTThe SEC is going to require 1 game
against a Big 5 team leaving byu-provo with 36 opportunities each year to play
an SEC team, not 48. Holmoe is groveling to Slive and for what? Slive will
simply point out to Holmoe that he has plenty of opportunity to play SEC teams
and does not need an exception to do so.True, other leagues (Pac-12
and BIG10) are already playing 9 games and will not likely change that formula.
If they change that formula, byu-provo will still be playing anyone they want
all over the country, right? That's what you people are told. If
that's true, what is Holmoe worried about?
This really isn't an issue except to people that want to spit and throw mud
at each other. As Naval Vet, and MyPerspective pointed out SEC teams still have
4 OOC games (not 3 as MP was stating). The SEC plays 8 conference games and only
has this rule because other leagues are playing 9. Not really that important in
the grand scheme of things. What would be devastating was if other conferences
made this rule despite playing 9 conference games. Then BYU would be in trouble.
On the outside, looking in:Bowl WeekBYU - INUtah -
outNCAA TournamentBYU - INUtah - outbtw, if
the mighty weak Utes can't even handle a 9-game power conference schedule;
what make's you think U could handle a 10-game schedule?Instead
of worrying about BYU's SOS, maybe you should worry more about your own
lack of competitiveness against a stronger schedule - 4-5, 3-6, 2-9, 9-18
Bleed CrimsonSandy, Utah"It seems BYU is very desperate
and facing the reality that they will be on the outside looking in."byu-provo is already on the outside looking in. They have been since
the Utes moved to the big time and Holmoe was desperate to do
something...anything to make it look like he was in control. Holmoe will be
groveling at the feet of Slive. If Holmoe really wants to play an SEC team, he
has 36 opportunities to do so in any given year. Playing an SEC team is not the
issue, here. Holmoe is using Slive in the same manner he attempted to use Utah
St. The MWC saw through the ruse and Holmoe's efforts back fired in epic
proportions. We will soon see just how smart Slive is. With the
SEC requiring at least one OOC game against a Big 5 opponent, the Pac-12 and
Big10 will not be far behind. Accordingly, the ACC will also be forced to take
the same approach to stay in the playoff discussion with the SEC. I would not
be surprised if Slive seeks input from the other 4 conference commissioners
before meeting with Holmoe.
"Can BYU receive a scheduling exception with the SEC?"It
seems BYU is very desperate and facing the reality that they will be on the
outside looking in.
continued...I'm sure Slive recognizes that ND is, in fact, a
partial member of a Big 5 conference which does, in fact, include them in the
Big 5 discussion. Every SEC team now has 3 OOC games to schedule as they see
fit. If Holmoe truly wants to schedule an SEC opponent, he is free to do so.
He has 36 opportunities every year. Slive needs to be very careful about how he
proceeds here. Once the exception game begins, we will be right back where are
right now and frankly, the Big 5 have worked too hard to give up the separation
that is beginning to take place. Holmoe doesn't want the SEC.
Holmoe wants the validation that the SEC can give byu-provo. Holmoe's eye
remains steadfast on the prize...inclusion in the Pac-12 and he will use the SEC
and anyone else necessary to get it.
It would be in the SEC's best interest to include byu and all the
independents including Army and Navy (aren't Idaho and New Mexico State
also independent?) as a big 5 conference. That way, the SEC still gets
guaranteed wins against byu, Army, and Navy and can check the box on the Big 5
requirement. That arrangement would complement the current cupcake OOC games
the SEC is well known for.On the other hand, Slive would be well
advised to recognize that Holmoe has never shown any interest whatsoever in
scheduling SEC teams until now. Slive should be asking "why?" Then he
will see first hand byu's well deserved reputation of manipulation (see
Utah St and MWC) and then falling back on the victim card when byu doesn't
get what they want (see conference realignment).
Lifelong UteSalt Lake City, UTWell, you may be wise to hold
the crow too.Your tender, charitable sentiments remind me of the old
advice, "Lord, make my words soft, tender and sweet, for tomorrow I may have
to eat them."
As I've stated before, I attended both the Y and the U and am a fan of
both.I pay little attention to the silly banter between the fan
bases. Lots of puffery, very little objectivity.Fact is the glass
is half full (or half empty) for both programs. BYU would clearly trade places
with the U with its membership in the PAC-12 and benefit from the stability and
predictability that would come with that membership. Utah is in the
PAC-12 but is struggling to be relevant. I, like all Utah fans, enjoy being
able to play a PAC-12 schedule, but am still waiting for the U to play its first
meaningful game in the PAC-12. The Y will have more meaningful games against
the PAC-12 (final 4 v Stanford in VB and championship game v. Cal in Rugby) over
a 30 day period than Utah has had since it joined the PAC (the Red Rocks are a
pleasant exception).My hope is that the trajectory for both programs
will continue upward...there is certainly room for improvement.
Y grad"If Mr. Slive tells Tom, " Um, thanks...", then I
fear that would indeed be a major, and perhaps irrecoverable, setback to
independence. That would precipitate an intolerable barrage of forced
crow-eating by BYU fans everywhere"And Ute nation will NEVER
stop feeding it to you. Get used to it. Its soon going to set in stone as the
divide grows even greater that byu is not part of the future of college
Mormon UteKaysville, UT"Tom Holmoe is clearly worried,
otherwise he wouldn't be talking to Slive at all. That's because he
knows SOS is critical to getting where BYU wants to be. If BYU gets shut out of
games with the power conferences, that national title will only be a pipe dream.
I truly feel bad for BYU fans. Independence is rough."On this we
are agreed, and reasonably so at that. Scheduling was tough before, being shut
out would only make it tougher. But please hold on the condolences, at least
until after the meeting.If BYU is given an exception, odds of which
I figure about 1 in 3, then the job just got easier and BYU just got a better
than average endorsement.If Mr. Slive tells Tom, " Um,
thanks...", then I fear that would indeed be a major, and perhaps
irrecoverable, setback to independence. That would precipitate an intolerable
barrage of forced crow-eating by BYU fans everywhere.
Tomahawk RedYes, PAC 12 fans love having Utah for cannon fodder - U
even helped Washington State qualify for a bowl for the first time in years.
Ekute"CougarSunDevil,I find it funny that cougar/sun devil
comes to a byu article to comment about Utah."What's funny
is utahs football record against ASU. What's hilarious is utah fans claim
to be so superior yet can't even make a bowl.
Another article about a promising BYU recruit and another rash of desperate spam
from the crimson bubble.It's laughable that the kids on the
hill spend more time trying to marginalize every BYU recruit and opponent than
they do worrying about their own team.
Tom Holmoe is clearly worried, otherwise he wouldn't be talking to Slive at
all. That's because he knows SOS is critical to getting where BYU wants to
be. If BYU gets shut out of games with the power conferences, that national
title will only be a pipe dream. I truly feel bad for BYU fans. Independence
navelvet"Fact is, Utah was added to the Pac10 because Texas and
Oklahoma said 'no.'."Absolutely true. If Texas and
Oklahoma had said yes, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, the rest of the Big 12
South would have tagged along and the Utes would never have been invited.Utah was nothing more than the fall-back plan after Colorado was hastily
invited, to shut Baylor out of the deal; then Texas A&M backed out of the
PAC 10/Big 12 South merger, and the PAC needed one more warm body from a nearby,
decent-sized television market, and Utah fit the bill culturally and
academically, if not athletically.
Pac 12 Pride/Ken/Chris B.Are there any Utah "fans" capable
of just have a respectful and coherent discussion about football? My
statement"BYU is a quality opponent but does not match up well against
good competition," Regardless of your hatred/fascination with
everything to do with BYU, the fact is that BYU is a national brand of football,
and has consistently fielded quality (good but not great) teams in the past and
will continue to do so. But past records show that BYU rarely beats teams from
"Power" conferences, especially on the road. So honestly, why
wouldn't each of the P5 conferences give BYU an exception? BYU instantly
adds a winnable, credible, and quality game that will almost guarantee a boost
in SOS for teams wanting a playoff birth.
I really don't see what all the fuss here is. The SEC is only requiring
ONE game vs. a Power 5 conference school; not all 4. They still get 3 other
games vs. weak SOS midmajors. Just look at all those FCS, Sun Belt, and C-USA
teams they face annually. And it really isn't as if the cougars had been
poking around the SEC too much to find many games. They prefer weaker
opponents...like C-USA and the AAC.
ekute:"I find it funny that cougar/sun devil comes to a byu
article to comment about Utah."That's most likely because
he isn't a "real" Sun Devil, but rather a cougar fan who went to
high school somewhere in the Phoenix metropolitan area. As a coug, he
can't trash talk his big brother, so he has to glom onto some other
"elite conference" program to do it. We've been seeing a lot of
that ever since that fateful June 2010 announcement wherein we were "Fully
Invited"......and they'd been fully rejected.
Obama10:"Fact is, Utah was added to the Pac10 because Texas and
Oklahoma said 'no.'."Nope. The "fact is"
that's just some cougar folklore myth that had already been proven false.
However, what isn't folklore, is that you weren't wanted by any
"elite" conference in the country, and that still wrecks your psyche.
Too bad for you.
TajemnicaWest Valley, UtahPersonally as a USC fan, a BYU
neutral, and a utah hater----------BYU neutral. Ha ha
that's rich. You're a BYU fan posing as a USC fan in the weak attempt
to paint some credibility to the notion that somehow by-and-large the Pac 12
doesn't like Utah in the conference. You're just a poser
still insanely bitter that BYU is still the subject of these types of mid-major
angst sports articles.I'm not sorry to burst your little
bubble, but by-and-large, every program in the Pac 12, every coach in the Pac
12, most fans in the Pac 12, and the head of the Pac 12 all like the addition of
Utah. And that just burns you up, don't it?Meanwhile
you're outside, face pressed up against the glass, looking in at the big
boys play. And you sit and wait outside... the lone person waiting in a one-man
line... desperately hoping that someone will come open the door for you and let
you come inside.
BYU is certainly one of the best programs that are not in one of the Big 5
conferences. I hope the SEC gives them the chance to play its teams in the
chequer: With so many accomplishments and a tradition rich history,
why is Holmoe having to grovel for a scheduling exception with the SEC? Good
luck finding that nut.
Here's an interesting quote, conveniently left out of the Deseret News
article, that was included in the ESPN article about this same topic. From
Stewart Mandel at Sports Illustrated:"The real loser in this is
BYU. I was all for its independence experiment four years ago, but I could have
never foretold how much the landscape surrounding the Cougars would change. They
are probably better off as an independent than they would've been had they
remained in the now-depleted Mountain West. But despite their 64,000-seat
stadium, their semi-recent national title (1984) and their Heisman Trophy
('90), they are not considered of the caliber of programs in the five major
Rose Bowl call yet?"Why would our jealous little brothers on the
hill even care if BYU gets an exemption from the SEC? Utah hasn't scheduled
a regular season game against an SEC team since 1984."The panic
attack on the hill is curious considering Utah has only played TWO SEC teams in
the last THIRTY years!Not only that, an SEC team has NEVER played in
that tiny little stadium on the hill.
ArgoFY"If Utah is "a blind squirrel finding a random nut on
occasion," then BYU most certainly is a blind squirrel that never found the
nut in the first place, and has subsequently starved to death."There are two iconic trophies that represent the pinnacle of individual and
team success in major college football - the Heisman Trophy and the Crystal
Football National Championship Trophy.BYU's Legacy Hall of Fame
proudly displays both trophies.Utah's trophy case is bereft of any
hint of such lofty achievements.
BYU is still a good draw for a power 5 conf and will still fit into many
schools' schedules. They are also attractive due to their flexibility on
If the SEC rules against BYU, what's the big loss? BYU doesn't put
that many Big5 teams on the schedule, so that bowl eligibility is protected. At
most, BYU would play one SEC school a year, and its going to be Ole Miss or
Kentucky, not an Alabama or LSU.
@ CougarSunDevil: If Utah is "a blind squirrel finding a random
nut on occasion," then byu most certainly is a blind squirrel that never
found the nut in the first place, and has subsequently starved to death.
Tajemnica I am a byu fan and dislike most of what Chris says, but
he's right about the other schools possibly coming after exceptions as
well. You are incorrect in your assessment of that.
Good luck Tom Holmoe. Do we need to read what his name at first two comments by
this same person above and some others? Anyway, if something don't go well
then the big 5 football going down the hill. I don't care about any Pro
Sport Leauges and possible ncaa (oh wait Big5).
CougarSunDevil,I find it funny that cougar/sun devil comes to a byu
article to comment about Utah.
chris BNice for BYU to qualify for bowl games regardless of what
their schedule is. Hopefully Utah will reach that level in the future. BYU fans
are enjoying the seasons and love going to or watching those yearly bowl games.
I love all of the "what if" games everyone "thinks" they know
about the SEC and BYU. Fact is, college sports are changing and ADs and College
Presidents only care about what will make them the most money. Fact is, Utah
was added to the Pac10 because Texas and Oklahoma said "no". Since
Larry Scott was getting ready to negotiate a big-time TV contract, he needed to
expand the footprint of the PAC 10 to maximize the contract so he added Utah and
Colorado. Utah and Colorado were added for their TV market, not what they had
done on the field. I guess being 2nd choice is still better than no choice, as
you are still in a Power5 conference, but please Utah fan (BYU Hater), stop
acting like it was your accomplishments on the field, or your "great"
tradition, or that "huge" 45,000 seat stadium that got you in the PAC
10. It was simple geography, TV sets, and money.
Why would our jealous little brothers on the hill even care if BYU gets an
exemption from the SEC?Utah hasn't scheduled a regular season
game against an SEC team since 1984.
CougarSunDevil,byu has many many years of similarly "weak
schedules" as Utah's in 2004 and 2008. Why didn't you guys go BCS
I find it funny that more utah "fans" (BYU haters) are on this article
than actual BYU fans. Further solidifying what I've said in the past, and
what Tajemnica so eloquently stated, that utah doesn't belong in a power
anything conference since they haven't done anything. Their weak schedule
in 2004 & 2008 was nothing compared to what the PAC-12 and other conferences
played that year. Since Utah joined the PAC, they have been exposed for the
fraud they are. They were only good against MWC and WAC competition and are NO
GOOD against PAC competition. Like a blind squirrel finding a random nut on
occasion, utah get's lucky when a real college overlooks them (see
Stanford). Other than that, they are a bottom dwelling team which leaves their
fans only recourse to trash talk other schools outside their conference and
celebrate conference membership rather than team success.
BlackandBlue: Byu isn't quite the quality opponent byu fans think they are
if they "match up" well against good competition. That's the worst
spin from a byu fan I've ever heard."We're good but we
don't match up well with good teams especially on the road"Did you seriously just say that?
@BlackandBlue "BYU is a quality opponent but does not match up
well against good competition," Too funny. When a team
doesn't match up against good competition, its because they aren't
Yes, Chris, that is why Mr. Slive told Tom, "No, we really don't need
to meet. There's nothing to say."Wait a minute? That
isn't what he said? Oh, gosh, that's embarrassing.Maybe
he'll tell BYU "Only games in SEC territory count. Games in Provo
don't." Maybe we could arrange to play our home games with SEC
opponents at Rice Eccles Stadium, so they would at least be visiting a Power 5
stadium. Utah fans could then expand their wardrobe to include jerseys from
every BYU opponent. "I cheer for Utah and whoever is playing
that team down south." Really, some of you don't cheer at all, you
just rag on BYU.
Honestly, why wouldn't the SEC and every other P5 give BYU the Notre Dame
exception? BYU has been flexible and willing to schedule anyone, including 2
for 1 series with elite programs. Half of the Pac-12 already have series
scheduled with BYU as well as a couple schools from the BIG. And as much as I
hate to say it, I think the Power 5 conferences should take advantage of the
fact that BYU is a quality opponent but does not match up well against good
competition, especially on the road.
I'm not sure what the outcome of the meeting will be, but I bet the BYU
haters (Ute fans) will sure be sweatin it during the whole process. If the SEC
does validate BYU as one of the premier programs worthy to schedule as a Power 5
team, the rest of the college football world will be hard pressed not to follow
@Tajmnecia:You're right the SEC is king. And when the SEC
tells byu "no thanks" you're a mid-major and we'll treat you
like the other mid-majors the other conferences will watch and follow suit.
Just look at byu's schedule(3 power conference teams) in 2014.
That'll probably the average byu gets going forward, which shows byu
isn't nearly the draw byu thinks they are.GO UTES!
Tajemnica - @Lifelong ute is right, you missed the issue there if you think
conference teams wouldn't still seek an exception. If a Boise or Fresno
wanted to play an SEC team and an SEC team was interested in playing them, but
only if the Boise/Fresno team would count as their big game outside of the
conference, they would still need an exception. Otherwise, according to the
current rules that SEC would STILL have to schedule a power conference team in
addition to the Boise game, and that's precisely what the SEC teams
don't want to do. They already play plenty of good teams, so they
wouldn't be interested in adding a good Boise team AND then a mandated
power conference school.Sorry, but you were way off if you think
being in a conference negates any excpetion issues.
@tajemnica, "Plus, these other schools have conferences. No need
for exceptions."That's actually irrelevant to the issue as
the SEC doesn't care. If there is an SEC team that wants an excpetion in
order to play boise(instead of a power conference school) the SEC would still
have to decide whether to allow that. The fact that Boise has a conference does
not change the issue of whether the SEC will allow the SEC school to play Boise
and "count" as a power conference schoolthe SEC doesn't
care that byu isn't in a conference and Boise is - the question still has
to be answered about an exception for each of them.
@Chris BBYU didn't get invited to the PAC 10 or BIG 12 because
of their integrity to not slack on their established morals. The Sunday play and
ESPN contract issues kept the invitations at bay. The interest was already
there. That's why the PAC 10 went with the little sister up north.
@Chris BI was leaving the first comment for you and I'm glad
you did as you are always dependable for a good laugh. Fresno St., better than
BYU? Comedic gold there! Maybe the last year or so but only utah gets inclusion
(for fans of other PAC 10 schools such as myself regrettably so) for two good
years of play. Plus, these other schools have conferences. No need for
exceptions. Besides the fact that outside of BYU, no other school outside the
Big 5 conferences has had as consistant success in the last ten years except for
Boise St. Personally as a USC fan, a BYU neutral, and a utah hater (hater
being too strong of a word. I just don't like utah fans thinking they
actually belong in the PAC 10. Start winning some games and I'll take you
seriously) I hope the SEC grants exception to BYU. All other conferences will
follow suit as the SEC is King, and utah fans can eat crow. Note: it
would be even funnier if the SEC added BYU. Would never happen but would further
solidify utah as the little sister on the hill.
It will be funny when the SEC tells byu "no, we don't care about
you" just as the Big 12 and Pac 12 have already done by choosing not to
invite byu.byu once again trying to convince people they are like
Notre Dame and deserve what Notre Dame gets.You don't!You're byU
Byu again thinking/wishing they were treated like Notre Dame.LOLI mentioned this several days ago, that the SEC has chosen to include
Notre Dame as a power conference team but chose NOT to recognize byu as such.As pointed out in the "other" newspaper several days ago by a
byu fan/writer it was unlikely as then it opens up a Pandora's box of who
to give excpetions for. Boise has been a much better program than byu - should
the SEC give an exception for Boise?Fresno is a better team than byu
- should fresno get an exception?Also, regarding all this extra
power being given to the power conferences, again the byu fan/writer from the
other newspaper says this "it can't be good for byu"Pretty soon byu will have to go limping back to the MWC and join the ranks of
division II while the power conferences essentially become the new division I