Comments about ‘Richard Davis: Is the death penalty going away?’

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Published: Wednesday, April 30 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Gandalf
Salt Lake City, UT

Another reason is that it is becoming increasingly difficult for a state to kill a person without screwing it up. We saw Oklahoma mess up a lethal injection just last night in disgusting, stomach-turning fashion. Perhaps we should abandon the "do as I say, not as I do" approach to dealing out punishment for horrific crimes.

Esquire
Springville, UT

Isn't Oklahoma a poster child for eliminating capital punishment? It doesn't deter. The bottom line is that it cost more money than incarceration. It is really only about revenge.

JSB
Sugar City, ID

Sometimes I hear about crimes that are so heinous that I approve of the death penalty. But, it is so costly, takes so long and because the innocent are sometimes convicted, I believe that prison without possibility of parole is the most practical option.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

it costs more money than incarceration only because we drag it out too long.

it is not about revenge, and often not about deterrence, but justice.

yes, do all we can to make absolutely sure we reduce that 4% to 0, but there are instances where it is the only appropriate penalty.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

IMO... the ultimate penalty should not be removed completely... but it should be used very, very, VERY, infrequently.

And only for the most cruel criminals who demand this punishment. And only when there is no reasonable doubt they are guilty of a VERY heinous crime (or numerous heinous crimes).

====

Some people will try to make you feel guilty IF you support any use of the death penalty.

They will say that if the court prescribes this penalty... then all of society is guilty of murder.

I don't accept that. That's why we have courts. So they can do their job (present evidence and prove or dis-prove guilt, and prescribe the punishment the LAW demands. While we do our job... Forgive.

We have different jobs. Courts are to apply the law (every time). We are to forgive (every time).

Just because WE forgive and move on... doesn't mean the courts shouldn't apply the law.

We often see families forgive the person who killed their family member... but they still expect the court to do IT's job.

We have different roles/responsibilities... Courts/justice and individuals/forgiveness...

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Countries still using Capital Punishment...

North Korea
China
Iran
Syria
Cuba

[you know, Bush's axis of evil types]

and AMERICA.

Just remember this,
The Nazis used "Capital Punishment" laws to legally justify the Holocaust.

When citizen give the State the power to exucute it's citizens,
the State has the ultimate power over it's citizens.

A sword cuts both ways.

After last nights Oklahoma botched execution,
it's time we move above and beyond the eye-for-an-eye penal system.

BTW --
Jesus could never have been crucified if Capital Punishment had been banned, think about it...

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@OMM,

Nice Nazi reference... never want to miss a chance to categorize, group, and associate people into your little stereotyped groups...

===

You seem to think that God or his people... would never have the death penalty...

Ever read the Bible?

Obviously his chosen people (the Jews) had the death penalty (for relatively small things).... so are God and his people "Nazis"??

Prophets have used the death penalty (including Nephi)... are they Nazis?

God has the death penalty (both spiritual death AND physical death). Is HE a Nazi??

===

IMO there are worse things than death...

tylert73
West Valley, UT

People have various interpretations of "cruel and unusual." My interpretation is a puinshment should not be cruel or unusual in regards to the crime committed. A 5 year prison sentence for a shoplifter would be cruel and unusual. However, that punishment for a burglar would not be. Killing a killer is not cruel or unusal. It is justified and appropriate. It makes no sense to assume the founders' use of that terminology means they are against execution, especially when they formed a government that executed people.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@lost in DC
"it is not about revenge, and often not about deterrence, but justice. "

Sometimes justice is just a fancy way of saying revenge.

@Open Minded Mormon
"it's time we move above and beyond the eye-for-an-eye penal system.

BTW --
Jesus could never have been crucified if"

I suppose it is quite possible to justify quite a lot when one uses the mindset of 'I will answer injustice with justice'.

RSLfanalways
West Valley, UT

Frontline had an interesting documentary that came out yesterday about our incarceration system which covers some very important questions. One thing was reducing the costs. Don't jail people that have minor offences for example in Kentucky they showed children going to jail because of truancy. We should jail people that we are afraid of hurting others not people that an overdue speeding ticket.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

@2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT
@OMM,

You seem to think that God or his people... would never have the death penalty...

Ever read the Bible?

=======

Looks like you can only read the Old Testament.

Did Jesus advocate the Death Penalty?
He was sentanced by it you know.

BTW -- Nephi was 600 B.C., and still under the Law of Moses.

The Death Penalty if wrong, period.

And you call ourself Pro-Life?

tylert73
West Valley, UT

Open Minded Mormon
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regards the question of whether and in what circumstances the state should impose capital punishment as a matter to be decided solely by the prescribed processes of civil law. We neither promote nor oppose capital punishment.
That is the official church stance on capital punishment. The church does not promote OR OPPOSE it. However, the church does oppose abortion. So trying to tie this all together with religion and pro-life arguments does not work.
And using Jesus against the death penalty doesn't work either. We are not talking about killing our Savior. We are executing murderers, people that have done unimaginable things. Please do not compare those people to Jesus. That is extremely offensive.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@OMM,
I read it. And it's not just the Old Testament. Death penalty is also used in Jerusalem in the NEW Testament (hint... it was used on Jesus and the men on both sides of him). Also the Book of Mormon.

Alma 1:15
"Nehor is executed for his crimes"...

Genisis
"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed";

In 1889 the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles prepared a declaration regarding the Church’s position on capital punishment:
“We solemnly make the following declarations, That this Church views the shedding of human blood with the utmost abhorrence. That we regard the killing of human beings, except in conformity with the civil law, as a capital crime which should be punished by shedding the blood of the criminal, after a public trial before a legally constituted court of the land". . . .

That's pretty old... but can you show me where LDS church leaders have said capitol punishment should be abolished??

You seem to have very selective and situational vision when it comes to history, the gospel, and statements made by church leaders.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

@tylert73
West Valley, UT
Open Minded Mormon

That is the official church stance on capital punishment. The church does not promote OR OPPOSE it. However, the church does oppose abortion. So trying to tie this all together with religion and pro-life arguments does not work.

=========

Let me correect you --
The LDS Church DOES allow for abortion - for it's members - for rape, incest, life and health of the woman, and viability of the fetus.

In addition --

The Church has not favored OR opposed legislative proposals or public demonstrations concerning abortion.
i.e., the church is legislatively neutral.

BTW -- There is no moral justification for State Death Penaties from an LDS Religous stand point since the Church is neutral.

And if you want to argue the religous moral aspects for Blood Atonements,
Go to the Temple, that was also done away with over 2,000 years ago.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

open minded,
yes, think about it. If there had been no death penalty and Jesus had not been crucified. Think of the ETERNAL ramifications.

Not that that has ANY bearing whatsoever on the current discussion.

and you are comparing the abortion of an innocent, unnborn child to an execution of person convicted of the most heinous crimes? WOW, the mental gymnastics some people resort to!

Nazis did not use capital punishment laws to justify the holocaust. what a stretch. nazis didn't need any excuse.

Schnee,
No, revenge and justice are not the same thing.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

1. Nehor was B.C.
2. You quote some article from 1889?

...let me re-quote your quote -- "...this Church views the shedding of human blood with the utmost abhorrence."

Now -- from the LDS HQ 2014;

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regards the question of whether and in what circumstances the state should impose capital punishment as a matter to be decided solely by the prescribed processes of civil law. We neither promote nor oppose capital punishment."

WWJD?

UT Brit
London, England

@tylert73

The church allows abortion in certain circumstances. It is not completely against it.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@lost in DC
"No, revenge and justice are not the same thing."

While I may have completely framed my first comment in order to make a Game of Thrones reference, I still stand by the idea that revenge and justice CAN be the same thing. They're not always the same thing. Usually in these discussions someone would pose an idea like "well what if someone killed a child of yours" and that line of convincing is entirely based on the idea of "wouldn't you like to see the murderer pay?".

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@OMM,
That's the selectivity I'm talking about.

You obviously read it (because you re-quoted it). But you only quoted the part you like... and totally left out the part that proved MY point!

===

You re-quoted "this Church views the shedding of human blood with the utmost abhorrence"... so I KNOW you read it. Thank you for that much...

But you conveniently left out the rest... " EXCEPT in conformity with the civil law, as a capital crime which should be punished by shedding the blood of the criminal, after a public trial before a legally constituted court of the land".

That's hardly saying they want capital punishment abolished.

====

Is that how YOU study the gospel? Just read the parts you agree with... and ignore the rest? And pretend everything confirms what you already thought?

That's very convenient (If you refuse to ever be wrong)... because you just conveniently ignore what you read (IF it doesn't agree with your politics)...

===

I agree the church neither promotes nor opposes capital punishment.. they leave that up to the law... (that's what I said in my original post)

===

WWJD... leave it to the courts.

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

Open Minded Mormon

Are you talking about the botched execution in Oklahoma that resulted in... the convicted man being executed? That is not a botched execution. Sometimes they don't go as smoothly as planned. That is life. If a person commits a crime so heinous that they get the death penalty, we shouldn't be required to guarantee a painless and seamless execution. Why are we so concerned for this individuals comfort when they have shown that they have no regard to the comfort and life of those they murdered and raped?

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