@2bits asked:"Would you not approve waterboarding or any other
"enhanced interrogation techniques"...if the info could prevent an
elementary school shooting like the one at Sandy Hook?"I fail to
understand why waterboarding to stop another Sandy Hook is acceptable yet
stopping that same person from purchasing/owning/possessing a gun (thereby
preventing another Sandy Hook without torture) is unacceptable.
re Joe Blow post #2“…in politics, what is real is not
important. The important is what appears to be real to the gullible”
– pg 339 The Cobra Frederick Forsyth
I give Sarah Palin grudging credit for not wasting podium time venturing out of
her depth. Trying to say something intelligent or illuminating is something for
which she has never shown an inclination. Making a big noisy splash in front of
a cheering crowd is her talent and for her that may be reward enough.
Sarah Palin just did what she has become so good at - got national media
attention, got her name on the lips of millions, stirred up more free
advertising.She has the political relevance of Miley Cyrus, without
the actual ability to entertain.
Sarah Bundy, Cliven Palin are fine examples of the Conservative movement.
"VP Joe Biden makes just as many loony comments as Sarah Palin... they just
don't get reported by the media."Really..... 2 Bits? You
missed..."Biden has two-gaffe Sunday in Ohio, both related to
former President Clinton" FoxNews"14 Times Joe Biden Was
So Joe Biden" Huffington Post"Joe Biden Invokes
Questionable Use Of 'Rape' At Fundraiser" AP NewsThere were a few hundred more that showed up in my first search. So either
you have a very selective reading/listening/viewing list.... or selective memory
is doing you no service. Try a quick search amigo.... I think you will find
the media has had absolutely no problem reporting on Biden's gaffes.
"courts controversy" ?? - really? How about she offends the very Author
of the Christian principles she claims to live by. This macho, swaggery
Christianity she exhibits is nothing more than the same old political ambition
that has plagued mankind from the beginning and which the Good News of the
gospel was trying to counter. Love your neighbor, love your enemy. period.
@2 bits"You're aware that she didn't torture anybody...
right?"Never said she was. I just said she supported
waterboarding. " And #2 it wasn't even a crime"I personally believe it violates the Geneva Conventions against torture
that we signed onto along with some constitutional amendment (some form of cruel
and unusual punishment or unreasonable search method... ) and that if somehow it
weren't a crime it should be one. "Would you not approve
waterboarding or any other "enhanced interrogation techniques"... if the
info could prevent an elementary school shooting like the one at Sandy
Hook?"McCain was tortured and the "names" he gave to the
Vietcong were just Green Bay Packers players. We got more out of the Taliban guy
that we gave sugar-free (he was diabetic) cookies to than we ever got from
enhanced interrogation techniques.Hypothetically if it were
guaranteed to work to prevent Sandy Hook would I support it? No, I
wouldn't, at least I hope I wouldn't. If you don't stand by your
values when things get difficult they aren't values, they're hobbies.
(I probably got that Jon Stewart quote slightly off).
It's just fine for good Christians like Bush and Cheney (and Palin) to
torture. It's only wrong when other religions do it.
Schnee,You're aware that she didn't torture anybody... right?She made a glib comment about terrorists... but that hardly requires
this amount of outrage.===YOU may see it as a "war
crime". But #1... she wasn't involved. And #2 it wasn't even a
crime... much less a "war crime" when it happened. It was determined to
be "legal". President Obama made it "illegal" when he became
President... but 9/11/01 wasn't a crime, much less a war crime.===I think if it doesn't physically harm the terrorist, and
it saves innocent lives... and it's legal.. it's worth doing.Would you not approve waterboarding or any other "enhanced interrogation
techniques"... if the info could prevent an elementary school shooting like
the one at Sandy Hook?Would you just let the children die??
knowing you could prevent it IF you can get the info needed? But you
won't... because you respect the terrorist's right to comfort more
than those children's right to live?That's the kind of
decision they were up against. Other attacks on innocent Americans were
I still shudder when I think of how she nearly became the vice president of a
@2 bits"Are they really that upset that she abused the term
"Baptism"? ""Are they outraged somebody was mean or rude
to terrorists??? I doubt that..."It's not a matter of being
mean or rude to terrorists, it's a matter of joking about something many
see as a war crime and being outraged at the endorsement of said war crime. Another thing is that believing in a separation of church and state
doesn't mean that the person don't value their own religious beliefs
since many of those people including myself are still Christians. I'm not
as offended by that part of her remarks though because she is a Christian so I
mostly just find it disturbing (for the whole torture endorsement thing) rather
Waterboarding is Torture.Baptism is a sacred ordinance.My 3
year old grandson knows the difference between Right and Wrong better than
fully grown, holier-than-thou, Melchizedek Priesthood holders who should know
Is it the religion-angle... or the terrorism-angle... that has the left soooooo
upset this morning??? Are they really that upset that she abused
the term "Baptism"? After what they've said about religion... I
doubt they care that much about protecting sacred use of the term
"baptism"... (really).Are they outraged somebody was mean or
rude to terrorists??? I doubt that...I wonder if it's neither
the baptism-angle OR the terrorist-angle that has them pretending to be
outraged... is it mostly that PALIN said it.... that has them soooooo upset?I mean if anybody else said it.... would they be THIS upset???
VP Joe Biden makes just as many loony comments as Sarah Palin... they just
don't get reported by the media.I think Sarah Palin COULD have
been a better VP than Joe Biden. But Obama was WAY better than McCain and even
she couldn't save that campaign... so we will never get to see what she
would have done IF she was in the Naval Observatory instead of Joe Biden.But I think the media builds the public's impression of people like
Palin and Biden, and it's intentional, by what they choose to report (and
what they choose to NOT report)...
Palin-Bundy the 2016 conservative ticket.Scary thing is locally Mia
Love is emulating Palin's tactics.
@2 bits I’ll take a crack at this – in 2008 a
significant portion of the country almost put this woman a choked chicken bone
away from the world’s largest nuclear arsenal. She was as intellectually
unprepared for this role as any politician we’ve seen and displayed the
highest degree of ignorance combined with confidence I’ve ever witnessed
in national politics.But it is her particular brand of religion that
sacred me the most. Palin and her fellow Assembly of God parishioners describe
themselves as part of "the final generation," engaged in "spiritual
warfare" to purge the earth of "demonic strongholds." Palin has
spent her entire adult life immersed in this apocalyptic hysteria. Ask yourself:
Is it a good idea to place the most powerful military on earth at her
disposal?For all my concern about Bush's religious beliefs, and
about his merely average grasp of world events, I have never once thought that
he was an over-the-brink, Rapture-ready extremist. Palin seemed like the real
McCoy.And this is all based on lots of in depth reading and not
comedy skits or news sound bites.
2bits."The only reason she's still in the spotlight is...
" Because she is a tea party rock star.Look. I dont hold the
GOP responsible for every stupid thing a conservative says. I hold them
responsible for repeatedly giving people like Palin and Ted Nugent and Rush
Limbaugh a large stage.Palin did not say what she did because she is
stupid. Nor was it a slip up. It was a calculated comment which was
"received with loud cheers by those in attendance"She is
playing to the base. And it says quite a bit about the mentality of the base.
Eh, I'm more bothered by her lackadaisical approach to torture than I am
her making a risky joke involving a demographic she belongs to.
Mike Richards, are you saying what I think you are saying? That anyone other
than an LDS priesthood holder who performs a baptism is taking the Lord's
name in vain?Are you casting stones at other Christians who
don't worship exactly as you think they should?Are you actually
doing in your post exactly what you decry others for doing?Very
interesting.Conservatism at its best.
2 bitsCottonwood Heights, UTI don't know why the media and
left-leaning people still feel the need to attack Sarah Palin every few
weeks.... shes not running any more... the election is OVER.========
I don't know -- why don't you ask the Deseret News?, they
ran the article.And as for you and Mike Richards -- are you
going to condone or disdain Sarah Palin's "remarks".She
has a choice.Walk away from the media lime-light, or choiose to stop
selling cheap inflamitory rhetoric to sell books.Free Speech still
comes with a price, that price is you pay for it when you say something
stupid in front of the entire country.
Mr. Richards, you must be dizzy from all that spin you just made.There just isn't any excuse for Ms. Palin's words. Sorry. It's
time for her to own them. Free agency is a wonderful gift. However, it never
freed us from consequences. Have you ever been a parent Mr. Richards? If not
then you'll learn this lesson eventually. Sometimes, children will use
their free agency poorly. Making excuses for them is bad parenting. Please, stop
making excuses for Ms. Palin. What church are you attending Mr.
Richards? The church that I served a 2 year mission for and which I currently
serve leadership positions in would never condone torture. Nor would it it
applaud one of its most sacred operations to be used in connection with water
boarding. In fact 4th Nephi gives us a terrific insight into the evils of an
over aggressive military and torture. It eventually leads to the defeat of the
Nephite nation. So either we are attending different churches or
you're just not listening to what is being taught.The Lord
instructed us to serve and love. He did not instruct us to torture and mock
Thank you sarah, for your entertainment value. You can always be counted on to
say something foolish.
I don't know why the media and left-leaning people still feel the need to
attack Sarah Palin every few weeks.... shes not running any more... the election
is OVER.===I don't think we need to defend her...
just ignore her...The only reason she's still in the spotlight
is... because the media feels the need to report what she says (mostly when she
says something stupid... never if she says something ordinary).I
know most left-leaning people think she's brainless (because that's
what their rhetoric-mongers tell them)... but If I (or ANY person) were a person
the media cared about... and they only reported when I said something stupid...
you would probably think I'm brainless too...We all say stupid
things from time to time (especially if you only hear when I say something
controversial, and half of the people in the country are constantly TRYING to
twist every thing you say into being into being even more controversial)... Can
America help thinking she's totally brainless if the skits and the news
coverage always paint her as a brainless woman?
Mike Richards at 7:45 p.m. April 28, 2014 - Great speech but is was missing
something.... perhaps you should use the word "America" more? Jingoistic conservatism at it's best.
This was Sarah Palin's GOP moment, or was that the GOP's Sarah Pallin
moment. Or was it Sarah Pallin just picking up the batoon from Cliven Bundy who
picked it up from Joe the Plumber or hundreds of others that came in between.
As the saying goes, Birds of a Feather. Thanks to the right wing radicals that
have taken control, the GOP is the gift that keeps on giving.
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so
unlike your Christ.” - Mahatma Gandhi
@Mike Richards 10:48 p.m. April 28, 2014I don't recall Maverick
ever saying anything that could even be construed as indicating he has no belief
in God. I think you're confusing him with a different poster.Sarah didn't just use a lack of good sense or make a fool of herself --
her comments went a lot further than that. A use of good sense would be to
strongly condemn, and separate onself from, her comments and their content. You
just tried to blow them off. I would hope that you realize that, through your
actions, it might appear that you're condoning her advocacy for barbarity
and torture. I truly hope that is not what you are doing.
I’m a staunch conservative and a Tea Party guy. The media may portray her
has a main voice for the GOP but believe me there are a lot of conservatives who
wish she would just stay silent. Unfortunately, she makes us normal
conservatives look extreme.
Re: Mike Richards "If you feel outrage, focus that outrage on those who
killed Americans and those who weep for the terrorists..."OK,
fair enough. As Michael Moore makes clear in Fahrenheit 911, Saudi Arabia
attacked the United States on 9/11. They were all let out of the country with
protective custody by the Bush II administration. Perhaps, Mike, you could
direct some of your venom there.
We leftists are always at a disadvantage going up against a loose talker like
Palin. We on the left try to be reasoned and theoretical in our arguments
whereas Palin practices delivering one-liners like the late Spiro Agnew. This
all descends from Agnew.
This was Palin's Bundy moment.
Re: Mike Richards and MaverickI have been interested in your
dialogue and quite frankly can't see that either of you are that far apart
in your theological beliefs and understandings and I concur with both of you!
the question that I have does the following statement made (in quotes) apply to
the present POTUS. "Why not let Christ do His job? He doesn't need your
approval before He chastises or forgives a brother or sister. I'm willing
to let Christ do His job. I trust Him. I have total confidence that He is fully
competent to judge and to redeem."
Palin made the comment to a particular crowd. She is betting (and is correct)
that anyone who didn't care for that comment wasn't already going to
vote for her, and anyone on the fence will let it slide. That is how you hedge
your bets in politics. Really she is being called
"insignificant" in the GOP so her strategy is to now rally the base of
the GOP (her strong point). Before I am too critical of anything a
politician says, I like to put it in perspective. And for the record I
won't be voting for her, but it won't be because of what she said
about baptizing terrorists.
Is it more moral to "baptize" terrorists with waterboarding to obtain
the intelligence that the CIA testified before congress was used to find bin
Laden and kill him or is it more moral to "baptize" terrorists with hell
fire missiles from drones like Obama just used to kill 55 people in Yemen (and
many other countries) I think both are good! This phony outrage is silly from
people who hate Sarah Palin, period! If Obama had used the word, liberals would
have no problem at all.
@Mike Richards;How many innocent men, women and children have died
in the US's "war on terror"? We attacked a country that
wasn't even involved. We tortured prisoners. WE DID THAT. I
love a "good Christian" when I see one, but I haven't seen one in
When your occupation is new making, a requirement is to make an attention
getting outrageous statement every six months like Coulter.
Mike Richards…. did the Christ you worship also use those things sacred to
people as punchlines to a joke at a paid event… would he use religious
humor as a way of filling up his pockets?Disrespecting other peoples
faiths, acts of terrorism by other people, does not justify poor behavior.
What makes people like me - former "conservatives" - so irritated is
this concept of conservative infallibility. That some how conservatives
can't be called out when they do something wrong.I love my
kids. But when they stray, I call them out on it. When I do something wrong,
my wife calls me out on it. Conservatives should be willing to self correct
when a line is crossed… and a line was crossed.What Sarah said
to a conservative crowd, many of whom are just a faithful and religious as you,
was offensive to some. They take baptism as a sacred act of faith and
devotion. It is sacred to those who take on the convents regardless if
"you" believe the person had the authority to perform the ordinance.
Their faith and devotion isn't determined by the "authority" of the
one performing the act.
Mike is always invoking the Constitution to deliver little lectures on how
things are supposed to operate according to the plans of the Framers. Do you
think they would have something to say about punishing guilty people and not
just people who may sound or look like Palin's version of
"terrorists"? Torture now is OK when Cheney says so whether legal or not
as long as there's a different name for it? I don't see Palin and
company as either Christian OR Constitutional.
Re: Maverick,Which religion are you talking about, the one you
taught when you were a missionary or the one you rant about almost daily when
you tell us that you have no belief in God? You might think that I'm being
overly critical but the God that I know, the God that I worship, the God who
created all things, asked our Father in Heaven to forgive those who were
crucifying Him. He had already been tried by those who professed with their
lips a love of God, but demanded that His only Son be crucified. Not much has
changed in 2,000 years. Christ still tells us that He atoned for our sins, but
you and your friends demand blood because YOU'RE offended. Why not let
Christ do His job? He doesn't need your approval before He chastises or
forgives a brother or sister. I'm willing to let Christ do His job. I
trust Him. I have total confidence that He is fully competent to judge and to
redeem. Why don't you?
Mike Richards, it's downright offensive that you condone Ms. Palin's
words.Do you understand what the symbolism of baptism is for many of
us? Here, let me educate you. The Savior suffered and died on the cross for all
of us. After 3 days, he rose from the grave. Baptism, for many of us, is a
symbol of our commitment to follow Christ. However, it's much more than a
mere commitment or pledge, but a covenant.Every week we have the opportunity
during our sacrament meetings to renew our covenants with The Lord. Palin mocking sacred covenants and breathing it in the same sentence as
terrorism is extremely offensive. True, to some godless people who mock
religion, they support and condone her actions. But not me. I believe that the
ancient prophets and martyrs and modern-day prophets deserve far more respect
than that. Our lord and savior, deserves far more respect than this failed
governor of Alaska is giving.Please, stop mocking my religion to
score political points.
Wow………Even though I voted, regrettably, for her
and her running mate in 2008, I am very grateful at this moment that this woman
is nowhere near the White House, and not likely to be there at any point in the
foreseeable future. For a “Christian” to make a remark like this is
indescribably awful and disappointing.
One of the pieces of propaganda used against the US in Afghanistan and Pakistan
when recruiting young Muslims to join the Taliban and Al Qaeda is that the
"supposed" war on terror is really just a modern day version of the
"crusades" by the right-wing American Christians. So thank Sarah Palin
for helping to making their point.
This is what the heirs of William F. Buckley think of conservatism now?
So Sarah Palin and her fear mongering rhetoric is what is considered a "good
christian" these days? And you wonder why your children are leaving your
churches in droves? You wonder why there is a such a backlash anytime the
christian label is applied? Instead of pointing your fingers at everyone else
in society, how bout you clean your own house first. You're all choking on
the Palin and Santorum dust.
Good grief Richards -- Why are you defending Sarah Palin and deflect her
outrageous comment?Is it to draw attention AWAY from the GOP, she is a spokesperson for them [and you] you know.Chalk another up
to the Clive Bundy fan club.
Sorry, Mike. This glib comment about something sacred to so many people is not
funny, cute or clever. She should not get a pass for it.
What I find sad is how Palin and this kind of inflammatory rhetoric plays so
well with the GOP base. Throw in a gun reference and a few lines about how
Obama hates America and the crowd gets whipped into a frenzy.I think
many parts of the conservative message are sound. Unfortunately,
the GOP candidates have to cater to the lowest common denominator to get any
traction with the base.Sorry, but it is an embarrassment.
On September 11, 2001, terrorists KILLED more than 2,500 Americans whose only
crime is that those Americans were in America going about their normal
activities. Those "terrorists" didn't do that horrific deed by
themselves. They were funded by rich people in other parts of the world. They
used some of our "petro" dollars to kill Americans in America.Save us the outrage when an American makes a fool of herself. She didn't
commit an act of terrorism. If you feel outrage, focus that outrage on those
who killed Americans and those who weep for the terrorists, the governments that
encourage terrorism, the people in our country to apologize for the
terrorists.One woman didn't have the sense to use sense when
she spoke, but some people in this nation want to tar and feather her while they
excuse those who killed Americans on American soil.