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Comments about ‘GOP should stop fighting Obamacare and work to improve it’

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Published: Sunday, April 27 2014 12:05 a.m. MDT

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RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Jimmytheliberal" why are you ripping on liberals like you. You do know that "neo conservatives" are just liberals that use the military to bring their message to the world.

You also know that there are about the same percentage of liberals that believe Obama was born in Kenya as conservatives, and that is actually a minority. Less than 25% of conservatives believe Obama was born in Kenya.

Why should conservatives get over the ACA? Do we still have Jim Crowe laws? Can women vote? Do you have to be a land owner to vote? Apparently lots of people have refused to "get over it" when bad laws were enacted, and were able to get rid of the bad laws.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

"Liberals and Progressives do not want to have insurance companies at all. They want a single payer, government controlled, tax payer supported health care system. A system, where THEY get to decide not only what level of care you get, but whether or not you get health care at all." (THEY? Who is THEY? As opposed to bureaucrats within the private, for profit, insurance companies making those decisions?) "Over 70, too bad, we're not paying for that expensive procedure. Why don't you just die?"

Uh. . . Dude, you realize that people over 70 are part of that "single payer, government controlled, tax payer supported health care system", right? Tell you what, why doesn't the right tell people over 70 that they are going to take them off the "single payer, government controlled, tax payer supported health care system" and put them in the private market. HaHaHa.

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"The best thing about the Tea party is that no one knows who they are and where there leaders are!"

Hahaha. Brilliant. So this guy says Tea Party people are following people and they don't even know who they are. And that's a good thing. Brilliant.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Resistance if futile... you will be assimilated....

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Why didn't we work to improve it BEFORE we passed it???

Why was one party locked out of the room when they were working on it? And told in no uncertain terms that they didn't care what they wanted... they have the votes to pass anything they want and they don't need any minority votes to get what they want??

If it was great law... why put off most of it till his second term? Re-election?

If it's great law... why put off the most painful parts till he's out of office???

Few people are impacted by the mandates now... but when the corporate mandate hits... the majority of Americans will be affected. We will see if they really LIKE this law... or not...

===

I think the answer will be... not. And we will need another solution.

It's too late to go back (that will NEVER happen). So our only option will be... you guessed it... what they wanted all along.... single-payer at least, and government healthcare if they can push far enough.

If we don't like that... we are out of options...

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

RedShirt, and just how is giving tax credits to hospitals for free health care not me paying for your family's health care?

And no we don't value the collective over the individual. In fact most progressive policies are intended to promote individual freedom, mostly through opportunity.

The problem conservatives have is they don't realize you can't separate the individual from the collective. The individual cannot function without the collective so the challenge is to balance the promotion of both.

In reality it's the conservative who rejects the collective not the progressive who rejects the individual. Thus (my term) freedom fetish.

It's like the right's mania for guns. less than 1% of Americans who don't live in inner cities will ever face a situation where a gun will make any difference at all but yet we have over 350 million guns in America.

In actuality guns are just a proxy for freedom. a rallying call for an irrational view of liberty.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "pragmatistferlife" because it puts the burden on the hospital to determine who is actually needy and who is not. Hospitals will cut down significantly on free care once you actually have to pay for it.

Actually your ilk does put the collective over individuals, you just don't accept that truth. Just look at the massive welfare state created by liberals. It takes from those that work to give to those that don't, it disregards a person's freedom to do with their property as they please. Look at what the liberals are pushing for on the TV and Internet. Your ilk wants to force News agencies into a new version of the "Fairness Doctrine". It destroys the ability of news commentators to engage in free speech. There are countless examples of your ilk putting the collective ahead of individual rights.

Yes, conservatives reject the idea of putting the collective first. That has always been a bad policy.

I don't know where your gun rant came from, but statistics show that where there are more conceal carry permit holders, crime goes DOWN. Do you want to live in a crime filled city?

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

RedShirt "To "pragmatistferlife" because it puts the burden on the hospital to determine who is actually needy and who is not. Hospitals will cut down significantly on free care once you actually have to pay for it."

That makes no sense at all. It will cut down on free health care once you have to pay for it? That's what the ACA does. Makes it so the everyone has to pay what they can. What is not conservative about that?

My ilk? You mean someone who paid his way through both undergraduate and graduate school, who worked two jobs where he had to travel a hundred miles to and from the second job, you mean someone who could work a full time job, raise five children, hold a high church position, attend graduate school and get straight A's, run over 80 miles a week and set PR's every weekend all at the same time.

Yet..still knows that I owe my upbringing, my culture, my friends, and a giving society for all of these opportunities. You mean that kind of ilk?

Jimmytheliberal
Salt Lake City, UT

@Red Shirt...The fact that yourself and most of the irrational tea party still desire to waste time on this ridiculous topic speaks volumes. The tea party and neo conservatives continue to hold our country hostage will find any poll and twist it dramatically in their favor. Especially if it is anti Obama. Care to site sources regarding Democrats believing our President was born in Kenya? How about the Earth being flat? Did you hear that one on Hannity or Limbaugh? That's what I thought. To myself and the rest of us that possess intellect it's quite ridiculous your party still whines about this to the very day. How about coming together for the good of the people for once? In closing, I'm certain that you would have no issue voting for Ted Cruz in 2016. Where was he born again? That's right Alberta. As in Canada! Now let the backwards thinking spin begin....

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Fitness Freak
"Obamacare WILL be repealed for the variety of reasons that others have already pointed out."

No it won't, even Scott Brown and that Cotton guy in Arkansas are already backing off of total repeals while Begich and Pryor are on the offensive. Republicans are not going to repeal it because you aren't going to just take away health insurance from 30 million people in 2017 (the earliest it'd even be possible and the minimum expected to have some sort of Obamacare insurance by then) without pushback.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Anti Government
"What would liberal democrats do if the tables were reversed? Soros would be pouring billions into overturning it and the liberal sheep would be lined up behind him if the republicans had used the same parliamentary stunts and 100% party line vote (that needed every single strong-armed liberal vote via threat and bribe) to get it passed."

Democrats would've worked to help improve things, wouldn't have voted 50 times to repeal it, and would've actually deemed legislating part of their job description so they would've been involved from the start (see: Medicare Part D, Romneycare).

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "Jimmytheliberal" it is well documented that Hilary Clinton and her supporters started the whole Birther movement. See "Birther row began with Hillary Clinton" in the UK Telegraph. Also see "Birtherism: Where it all began" in Politico.

You realize that more liberals believe that the earth is flat than conservatives.

As for Ted Cruz, yes I would vote for him. He is a natural born citizen, just like Obama. See "Sen. Ted Cruz still citizen of U.S. and Canada" in USA Today where they explain the legal definition and qualifications to be a natural born citizen.

To "pragmatistferlife" by your ilk, I mean liberal/Progressives that are sprinting towards increased government control of our lives. Nothing else that you have done acedemically, financially, or within your church are in question at this time. Your acedemics, finances, and church calling is no different than many conservatives.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

Redshirt, can you provide the proof for this claim:

"You also know that there are about the same percentage of liberals that believe Obama was born in Kenya as conservatives"

And can you provide the language from the two articles you present that backs this claim:

"is well documented that Hilary Clinton and her supporters started the whole Birther movement."

Go ahead and back up this one also while you're at it:

"You realize that more liberals believe that the earth is flat than conservatives."

LOU Montana
Pueblo, CO

Those who oppose Obamacare have never been denied coverage or have had a child denied coverage. They have never had to cash in their 401K to pay medical expenses or have they lost their home. Maybe they have never been denied medicine coverage because they have reached their life time limit.

It is a good thing that Obamacare has been enacted because your worlds will remain perfect.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "mark" that is too easy.

See "Birther row began with Hillary Clinton" in the UK Telegraph. If that isn't enough, News Busters' article "NY Times Flubs Timeline of 'Birther' Myth: First Spread by Hillary Clinton Supporters in 2008" also shows how Clinton started the Birther movement. In the Politico article you missed the line "That theory first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous email questioning Obama's citizenship." They continue to quote the email being sent around by Clinton supporters that stated "Barack Obama's mother was living in Kenya with his Arab-African father late in her pregnancy. She was not allowed to travel by plane then, so Barack Obama was born there and his mother then took him to Hawaii to register his birth". That sure sounds like the basic Birther theory, and it was pushed by Clinton supporters first.

As for the flat earth society, if you go to their web site and read their forums, they do support a lot of liberal causes and bash the GOP and capitalism. I don't see many conservatives bashing the GOP or capitalism.

Jimmytheliberal
Salt Lake City, UT

@Red Shirt...Sir or Madame I applaud your attempt at deflection regarding the birther movement that continues this very day during the middle of our President's second term. Yes. Secretary Clinton did in fact speak of this during the Democratic primaries. However, Secretary Clinton not only recanted but quite quickly apologized. She did not at any time question the validity of President Obama's birth certificate. Thank you for your admission that in fact you would vote for Canadian born Ted Cruz, once again applying a double standard (Regardless of his mother being in fact born in America). The lack of intellect to make this decision alone speaks volume. As far as the topic of science is concerned I believe your party is still denying climate change in 2014! Therefore, I believe we should not even speak of your comment regarding the Faux News rhetoric that in fact more liberals believe that the World is flat then do conservatives. Especially Utah born conservatives. May I suggest that cavemen riding a top dinosaurs be removed from classroom textbooks in the State of (guess what?) Texas prior to discussing this topic. What State does Cruz represent again?

RedShirtCalTech
Pasedena, CA

To "Jimmytheliberal" you should read what I said. I clearly stated that it was Clinton and her followers that started the Birther movement. You haev only confirmed that. Clinton may have appologized for it, but her followers kept it going for a while and it does all go back to her.

How is voting for Ted Cruze a double standard? I didn't vote for Obama because he is a socialist, not because of where he was born.

It is only a lack of intellect that would assume hypocrisy where none exists.

You do realize that it is the Flat Earth Society that believes in man caused global warming, and that the Flat earth Society is quite liberal in their views. If you don't believe me, go to their web site and see for yourself.

LiberalJimmy
Salt Lake City, UT

@Red Shirt...Nice stab in the dark. Apparently you did not read my retort regarding your non factual postings. Confirmation and admission of facts are quite different my dear friend. Secretary Clinton's "followers" as you so eloquently stated by no means continued the ridiculous birther movement once she recanted and then later apologized. Now I believe that I've been unfortunate to have read several of your anti Obama/Liberal rhetoric which can be found in many of your blathering posts. I.E Regarding how Obama was in fact born in Kenya which means he could not "legitimately" become President. I'm most certain you remember even though conservatives have in fact a difficult time with remembering. At no time did I mention the physical action of voting for Cruz (myself and many Liberals would thank you for this) was a double standard but rather the argument yourself and many conservatives have continue using to this day regarding Obama's birth.. Where was Cruz born? Now as far as The Flat Earth Society is concerned your point is because some of their views are deemed "liberal" by yourself and other conservatives this in fact makes them a liberal origination?

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

As a software engineer the WORST thing you can ever do is attempt to bandaide a bad architecture. What results is a terribly inefficient, terribly hard to maintain and usually almost unusable piece of software that the customer hates. The best and obvious choice is to simply scrap the design and start over with new design goals and a sound well thought threw architecture.

With Obamacare you have a nightmarishly bad architecture both from a software standpoint as well as a policy and law stand point. So to suggest we keep the bad design and try to bandaide it is absurd. Of course you scrap the thing and of course you start fresh ...THAT IS IF you really want to solve health care in America. The Democrats hatched this historical train wreck of a bill NOT to solve health care but instead to FORCE Socialism on America and anyone paying even casual attention understands that. The goal is NOT to create good health care - the goal is to create BIG Government which forces wealth redistribution and controls all aspects of its citizens lives by making them dependent citizens ...not free citizens. Free citizens don't need or want Socialism.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

what the writer of this post fails to understand is the fact that the divide between the Socialist Left in this country and the Constitutional Right is as WIDE and DEEP as the Grand Canyon and growing by the month. There are NO points of compromise. There is NO common ground. Not anymore ...not since Barack got the keys to the White House. Ronald Reagan was once asked what his thoughts were on the Cold War with the USSR ....he said "it's simple, we win and they lose". Reagan's words are as true today as they were then except today the Cold War is not with the USSR ...it is with the progressive left in this country. No there is no war of bullets and bombs but there certainly is a war none the less and the only option is to fight for our childrens future...or what is left of it. I have no use for liberals / progressives / democrats....maybe 30 years ago but certainly not today. The Jack Kennedy Democrats don't exist today...not even close.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

So, Redshirt, in other words, no, you could not prove one of those claims. You couldn't prove your claim that the same percentage of liberals believe Obama was born in Kenya as conservatives (you didn't even try). You could not prove your claim that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement (prove that Hillary did, not some annonymous "supporter". Give me the quote from her mouth). You also couldn't back up your claim that "more liberals believe that the earth is flat than conservatives." It doesn't matter if you think the flat earth society has liberal philosophy. To back your claim you would have to have a far broader study then one single organization. (You could make the claim that the flat earth society is liberal, if they are, but that is not what you said. You made a broad characterization based on one small observation. Of course that's business as usual with you.)

Besides, flat earthers, historically have based their believe on the bible. And the Canadian flat earth society was totally tongue in cheek.

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