one old man To whom are you referring to?
All it took was a simple relaxed posture by the BLM and the government in
general, a barrage of publicity by Sean Hannity, a week to allow this man to
talk a little and let us all know a little bit more about who he is and presto
change-oh! We see the sad little man who is the walking and talking (albeit--not
in any kind of educated manner) embodiment of the far right and the tea party.
To my good friends in the GOP, do not let this guy define you. Do not let the
Fred Phelps' and the Cliven Bundy's and Donald Sterling's be the
ever growing cornerstones of your political ideology. We need two strong parties
in this nation and I, as a proud Democrat am starting to turn a deaf ear to
those who align themselves with these types. As our flawed but beloved President
recently said, "The ignorant will reveal themselves. Just let them
Article: "I hope that I didn't offend anybody," Bundy said.
"If I did, I ask for your forgiveness, but I'm not going to withdraw
what I said."He may be well meaning and even a bit chastened by
the blowback from his previous remarks, but Bundy's statement fails as an
apology. It is couched in a conditional "if" that deflects personal
responsibility for injury. A genuine, sincere apology acknowledges that the
other party has been hurt (unconditionally) and assumes full responsibility for
the hurt. It expresses empathy and an intention not to repeat the hurt. This
statement does none of that and even doubles down on the original remarks. In
the case of an apology over hurtful words, the one apologizing should be able to
express some understanding of why the original words were perceived as hurtful
(even if he or she did not intend them as hurtful). That is lacking here.
It amazes me after reading all the comments that no one has identified the crux
of the problem- the Bundy family claims a tangible asset- grazing rights. That
is the same as mineral rights to a property owner, although most people
don't realize when they buy real property that mineral rights don't
automatically get transferred to the new owner.It would be good to review
the history of raising cattle in the West to understand how the Bundy family
views their cross-generational claims to this real asset.It's
also instructional to see how State governments might do a better job than the
Feds of managing trust lands. As it turns out, neither universally performs well
in that category. At least if the state is managing land assets, an
individual's control is not watered down by representation of out-of-state
Let's see -- He broke the law, He didn't pay taxes,
aandHe's an avowed racist...And the Tea-Party calls
this guy a Patriotic Hero?
Speaking of "on the dole," he should look in the mirror.
When you're right, you're right. Never back down from the truth.
He complains about Federal Government because he isn't paying fees to
access Public Lands. He is as much on the Government dole as the people he is
@patriotThank you for taking the time to express your opinion about
Cliven Bundy.I agree with your comment.The only
exception...Cliven Bundy will continue to get sympathy from people
in Utah.His views can be heard daily in any venue visited especially
by 50 something and older white gentlemen.Sad.
I listed to Bundy's comments about slavery I have to say the guy must live
in a bubble out there in the tumble weeds of Nevada. Holy cow - slavery -
really? I thought people in this country were past that sort of language by
about 50 years when the KKK was burning up the south. Even thinking that sort of
thing out loud is offensive. A man is free to speak his mind but Bundy
won't get any more sympathy from Utah that's for sure after those ugly
comments. If you really think blacks are better off slaves then best to just
keep those thoughts inside your pick up truck and not blab them out to the
Before the lynch mob goes after rancher Bundy, we should ponder the question he
posed (albeit in an unartful manner):Are inner city people (of all
races, but especially African Americans) better off now than slaves were?Are they truly more free? Are the financially better off, are their family
units stronger, are their prospects for a better future better for a current
generation or for a younger generation?Criticism of the failure of
the liberal welfare state, and the virtual plantation it has become for a large
segment of our population is not racist. If the results inflicted
upon the poor, especially African Americans, were done by direct mandates
instead of through seemingly benign or even supposedly helpful programs, there
would be justifiable outrage. However, not a peep is said about the failed
programs.Remember, Lyndon Johnson stated that his policies would
"guarantee [African Americans} would vote Democrat for a hundred years."
That does not mean is would actually improve the lives of those voters, only
that it would benefit Democrats. He was right.
iron&clay: Individuals and state governments have shown time and time again
that they should not be entrusted with such responsibility. Particularly in the
State of Utah where we are willing to blow millions of dollars to build roads
over delicate eco systems or have the right to drive recreation vehicles where
ever people want to drive for a moment of fun or a few dollars profit. I
would never relinquish federal protections for such responsibilities. There are
plenty of ATV trails and recreation areas in this State and yet people always
find a way to want more and more places to do this, regardless of the impact on
the environment or archaeology on the area. Oh, and we blow millions of dollars
of this money at the expense of things like education, which has been
ridiculously underfunded for decades. This is not good decision making.
We can give billions in foreign aid to countries who hate us, but use 200 armed
men to collect from a rancher who provides a service to his country.Go figure!Many political leaders, create expenses exceeding the
taxes wanted on Bundy, and over thirty states have ranchers who pay no federal
grazing fees.Why discriminate, and bully Bundy?Go figure
Hey Wolf, Please name the thirty states that don't charge grazing fees and
I hope your not talking about those East of the Mississippi. Or maybe your only
talking about texas.
He probably took down Hannity. Hugh media error. The Hannity program had
arranged for two video crews. However people driving down I 14 had to take
pictures of milita with high powered weapons aimed at law enforcement agents.
No, U-tar, there is a difference between prejudice and simply stating the
Worf, will you please provide us a list of those "30 states that don't
collect Federal grazing fees?" Anyone want to bet that they are all eastern
states in which there is simply no grazing on Federal lands?Here is
an excellent example of the Karl Rovian tactic of distorting truth, but not
riverofsun"According to other national newspapers, even the
would renown Koch brothers have realized they made a mistake in supporting
Cliven Bundy."Lay off the paranoid conspiracy theories. Why
would they support a nobody like Cliven Bundy? Here is a true story, They
supported Bill Clinton back in 1992.
The new conservative movement in America, built on paranoia, able to justify
anything that someone on their side does. Mention that someone said something
inappropriate and you are trying to take away his first amendment rights,
mention gun control and you are trying to take away ALL guns from ALL Americans,
support the government for doing what we the people have chartered the
government to do, and you want to live in North Korea. Suggest that someone who
has stolen millions of dollars of services be held accountable and you are anti
American and fail to understand the true intention of the Constitution. Belief
that this man is a thief and you fail to understand the history of country
because this man is just like our founding fathers, fighting an oppressive
government.Amazing how history, facts and the truth can continually
be twisted and turned to justify the unjustifiable.
Mr. Bundy was born in the wrong century, 1700 seems about right. His actions are
those of an anarchist and not a political party. Just as his cause has brought
out right wing vigilante extremists, the Occupy movement brought out the far
left lunatic fringe who had their own sometimes anarchist agenda. Once the facts
are well known, Bundy will fade into history as a humorous footnote, possibly
from a prison cell.
It was pointed out recently that LBJ said the same thing about Blacks in far
less PC words. Something about welfare and making them democrat voters for the
next 200 years.
Rancher bundy is worse than a welfare queen; he's not just getting
something from the government; he's stealing it. Any claim he has to
nobility in the cause is negated by the fact he makes money at it. He's
just some old crank who knows he's right and feels entitled to deride, beat
or kill anyone or anything that opposes him.
Karen R. I live in Mexico and I'm more free there than I ever
was here. If your independent and self-reliant, everything is just fine there.
I guess Mark B in Eureka Ca isn't predudice either. Grumpy, Old White guy,
Bundy Wagon, Confused, Redneck. No predudice here, right?
According to other national newspapers, even the would renown Koch brothers have
realized they made a mistake in supporting Cliven Bundy. That new bit of
info informs the world of what Tea Party Republicans had planned. Had Cliven
Bundy been more educated, non-racist, and articulate.......
Yup, that's what I want. No milita OR peotestors.
The notion that the federal government should own nearly all the land in the
western states is in violation of the bill of rights.*The federal
government should give back all the land and control of natural resources to
state government for the benefit and prosperity of the individuals who live
there.* 10th amendment
He isn't an heir of the KKK He's just ignorant. Stupidity isn't
a sin.I think that slavery was bad for some and good for some. It
was good for people like Frederick Douglas and Harriet Tubman. They became
stronger fighting against its evil. It was bad for slave owners. They were the
evil that the aforementioned fought against and their lives are now over and
their chance to rise above their culture and paradigms is eternally over.Whatever happens: freedom or slavery will be both good and bad. It is
what we do with it that makes the difference.
@LOU Montana-"All men are created equal and the law shall be
applied equally to all men."The law is not equal. There are at
least thirty states where ranchers don't pay federal grazing taxes.The real thieves live in Washington DC. Many don't pay an honest
tax, and free load.
Mark BI can play this card too. If you want total gun control, total
equality, somwhere that the Government has all the money, Militia free. There is
such a place. Its called North Korea. No guns for anybody but the Government.
People are starving to death but at least they are being treated equally right?
Not a stuffed person among them. You dont have to worry about corporations
bribing politicans because there are no corporations. There is no Milita or
peotestors of any kind because if anyone questions the King, they are put to
death. Obama is Jealous I think.
" . . . doesn't back down, from words or deeds . . . "Let's see now . . . are we talking about the gang member who charged a
government witness in Federal Court and was gunned down by US Marshalls?. . .Or are we talking about the guy who has become a cult hero in Right
Wing America because of his propensity for thievery.One of them
seems kind of heroic in a way, and the other one . . . Not so much.
@ Anti-Bush-Obama"Have you liberals ever thought that some
people want to Govern themselves and dont need anybody to tell them what to do
like a king would."I live in Texas. Are you kidding?My suspicion is that those who complain about the heavy chains of government
have no idea how much of their success is enabled by what we ask our governments
to do. They see only what they don't like and want to throw the baby out
with the bath water.So I would love to do an experiment in which all
of the Clive Bundy types are given exactly what they want: A place all their
own. But there will be no existing infrastructure, no type of order already
established. They will have to do all the work that their fellow citizens (aka
the government) now do for them.I would really like to see how that
would work out. We would have to guard our borders while we watch though. It
seems some of them feel entitled to profit off of land that they don't own.
That this man is getting all this media coverage for not paying money he owes
just goes to show what is wrong with the media in our day and age. We would
certainly do better to worry about some real social ills in our country.
All men are created equal and the law shall be applied equally to all men.To give Bundy special privilege would be making an exception to the
Constitutional Law. How then if all these people are screaming about
saving and preserving the law of the Constitution could they ever support Bundy?
The Bundy family's behavior is troublesome on so many levels. Their
occupation of property through a self-appointed, out-of-control militia is only
one glaring problem. They obviously have no regard for anyone else who wants to
see the public lands managed in the public interest. They condemn the actions
of the BLM as an overreach, yet they make claims to land that clearly belongs to
the federal government. If illegal occupation of federal land by the Bundys
were to be made valid, then the "Occupy Wall Street" crowd has a basis
for claiming title to the best real estate in Manhattan. Also, anyone who
honestly reads the legal documents that made Nevada a state and the U.S.
Constitution cannot escape the clear fact that Nevada relinquished any and all
claims to federal lands within its borders when it became a state. Bundy's
statement that he doesn't recognize the authority of the U.S, government is
also appalling. His lack of recognition of the U.S. makes him an illegal
immigrant at best and a traitor at worst.
Any thing to try and discredit a person. He made a stupid comparrison by saying
that negros (the term of his generation) might be better off having a family in
slavery than living on public dole not working at all. His comments were
targeted at government not race but of course, the race issue is more
interesting. I view Mr Bundy as a John Bertch type political
follower which not many people will agree with. Again, he should not have
spoken about race but I hate to call him a racist. That is simply left wing
practise to call everyone that who doesnt accept their positions. I
dont like some heavy handed BLM rules etc either. But some commentators are
saying the government over reacted by having som many law inforcement people
there. I say that those law officers were needed. As for over reacting, after
20 years of not paying taxes or not paying legitimate grazing fees, I hope the
goverment would react. By backing down, the goverment showed who is acting with
the best judgement in this mess. Also, by pointing guns at these officers those
militia men are lucky they dont have charges made against them.
I hope DN isn't officially the last to hop off the "Bundy wagon"
after discovering too late that he's just another grumpy old confused white
guy with no concept about race or law. That little group of rednecks won't
be able to keep him on the gravy train forever.AB-O: You know that
electing people, not to dominate our lives, but to help manage the assets we
have in common is the whole idea of our system. Want to be left alone?
There's always Somalia, which is pretty much lawless, but you WILL have to
hire your own army, so take plenty of cash. I prefer OUR side of that tradeoff.
@antiI agree were do people get the idea that it is alright to use
their first amendment rights to make comments that disagree with bundy?
It's the end of free speech for sure. As to "self
governance" when it is used as code for stealing what does not belong to
you, no most "liberals" and most people in general are not likey to
think about it is a ligitimate argument.
The cattle roaming around in the Mohave desert were just props for he radical
agenda. He has humiliated himself, his church and community. The mean spirit
of the tea party has been exposed.
Karen R.Their paranoia became justified when NSA spying became
declassified. I dont support what Bundy said which sounded racist even to me.
But political correctness will be the death of the first Amendment.Have you liberals ever thought that some people want to Govern themselves and
dont need anybody to tell them what to do like a king would. Just because you
want that, doesnt mean you can force it on us.
How rich is that, a guy that has illegally lived on the goverment dole for
twenty years making comments about people he believes are on welfare.
Hey Snowman -"You do realize that the rancher has every right to
say what he wants"Absolutely. He is free to stand there and
identify himself as a thief and PROUD of it, and he did just that.
@ snowman"You do realize that the rancher has every right to say
what he wants. It's call FREEDOM OF SPEECH."Sure. And
other people have the right to report on it and criticize (or support) it. This
too is free speech.This group sounds like they are aching for a
chance to prove that their paranoia is justified. A dangerous and volatile
You do realize that the rancher has every right to say what he wants. It's
call FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
"Rancher Bundy" will find that the charge for using taxpayer property to
graze cattle is indeed collectable, and will find himself in federal court with
his ranch at risk of forfeiture. His best way forward is to work out a deal for
the payment of his rents before this happens.