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Rancher Bundy doesn't back down, from words or deeds

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  • bobdc6 park city, UT
    April 25, 2014 7:21 p.m.

    "Rancher Bundy" will find that the charge for using taxpayer property to graze cattle is indeed collectable, and will find himself in federal court with his ranch at risk of forfeiture. His best way forward is to work out a deal for the payment of his rents before this happens.

  • snowman Provo, UT
    April 25, 2014 8:40 p.m.

    You do realize that the rancher has every right to say what he wants. It's call FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    April 25, 2014 9:01 p.m.

    @ snowman

    "You do realize that the rancher has every right to say what he wants. It's call FREEDOM OF SPEECH."

    Sure. And other people have the right to report on it and criticize (or support) it. This too is free speech.

    This group sounds like they are aching for a chance to prove that their paranoia is justified. A dangerous and volatile situation.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 25, 2014 9:22 p.m.

    Hey Snowman -

    "You do realize that the rancher has every right to say what he wants"

    Absolutely. He is free to stand there and identify himself as a thief and PROUD of it, and he did just that.

  • intervention slc, UT
    April 25, 2014 9:48 p.m.

    How rich is that, a guy that has illegally lived on the goverment dole for twenty years making comments about people he believes are on welfare.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    April 25, 2014 10:13 p.m.

    Karen R.

    Their paranoia became justified when NSA spying became declassified. I dont support what Bundy said which sounded racist even to me. But political correctness will be the death of the first Amendment.

    Have you liberals ever thought that some people want to Govern themselves and dont need anybody to tell them what to do like a king would. Just because you want that, doesnt mean you can force it on us.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 10:31 p.m.

    The cattle roaming around in the Mohave desert were just props for he radical agenda. He has humiliated himself, his church and community. The mean spirit of the tea party has been exposed.

  • intervention slc, UT
    April 25, 2014 10:53 p.m.

    @anti

    I agree were do people get the idea that it is alright to use their first amendment rights to make comments that disagree with bundy? It's the end of free speech for sure.

    As to "self governance" when it is used as code for stealing what does not belong to you, no most "liberals" and most people in general are not likey to think about it is a ligitimate argument.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    April 25, 2014 10:58 p.m.

    I hope DN isn't officially the last to hop off the "Bundy wagon" after discovering too late that he's just another grumpy old confused white guy with no concept about race or law. That little group of rednecks won't be able to keep him on the gravy train forever.

    AB-O: You know that electing people, not to dominate our lives, but to help manage the assets we have in common is the whole idea of our system. Want to be left alone? There's always Somalia, which is pretty much lawless, but you WILL have to hire your own army, so take plenty of cash. I prefer OUR side of that tradeoff.

  • Outside-View Federal Way, WA
    April 25, 2014 11:33 p.m.

    Any thing to try and discredit a person. He made a stupid comparrison by saying that negros (the term of his generation) might be better off having a family in slavery than living on public dole not working at all. His comments were targeted at government not race but of course, the race issue is more interesting.

    I view Mr Bundy as a John Bertch type political follower which not many people will agree with. Again, he should not have spoken about race but I hate to call him a racist. That is simply left wing practise to call everyone that who doesnt accept their positions.

    I dont like some heavy handed BLM rules etc either. But some commentators are saying the government over reacted by having som many law inforcement people there. I say that those law officers were needed. As for over reacting, after 20 years of not paying taxes or not paying legitimate grazing fees, I hope the goverment would react. By backing down, the goverment showed who is acting with the best judgement in this mess. Also, by pointing guns at these officers those militia men are lucky they dont have charges made against them.

  • BJ61 South Jordan, UT
    April 26, 2014 12:35 a.m.

    The Bundy family's behavior is troublesome on so many levels. Their occupation of property through a self-appointed, out-of-control militia is only one glaring problem. They obviously have no regard for anyone else who wants to see the public lands managed in the public interest. They condemn the actions of the BLM as an overreach, yet they make claims to land that clearly belongs to the federal government. If illegal occupation of federal land by the Bundys were to be made valid, then the "Occupy Wall Street" crowd has a basis for claiming title to the best real estate in Manhattan. Also, anyone who honestly reads the legal documents that made Nevada a state and the U.S. Constitution cannot escape the clear fact that Nevada relinquished any and all claims to federal lands within its borders when it became a state. Bundy's statement that he doesn't recognize the authority of the U.S, government is also appalling. His lack of recognition of the U.S. makes him an illegal immigrant at best and a traitor at worst.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    April 26, 2014 5:33 a.m.

    All men are created equal and the law shall be applied equally to all men.

    To give Bundy special privilege would be making an exception to the Constitutional Law.

    How then if all these people are screaming about saving and preserving the law of the Constitution could they ever support Bundy?

  • LittleStream Carson City, NV
    April 26, 2014 6:01 a.m.

    That this man is getting all this media coverage for not paying money he owes just goes to show what is wrong with the media in our day and age. We would certainly do better to worry about some real social ills in our country.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    April 26, 2014 6:15 a.m.

    @ Anti-Bush-Obama

    "Have you liberals ever thought that some people want to Govern themselves and dont need anybody to tell them what to do like a king would."

    I live in Texas. Are you kidding?

    My suspicion is that those who complain about the heavy chains of government have no idea how much of their success is enabled by what we ask our governments to do. They see only what they don't like and want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

    So I would love to do an experiment in which all of the Clive Bundy types are given exactly what they want: A place all their own. But there will be no existing infrastructure, no type of order already established. They will have to do all the work that their fellow citizens (aka the government) now do for them.

    I would really like to see how that would work out. We would have to guard our borders while we watch though. It seems some of them feel entitled to profit off of land that they don't own.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 26, 2014 6:25 a.m.

    " . . . doesn't back down, from words or deeds . . . "

    Let's see now . . . are we talking about the gang member who charged a government witness in Federal Court and was gunned down by US Marshalls?

    . . .Or are we talking about the guy who has become a cult hero in Right Wing America because of his propensity for thievery.

    One of them seems kind of heroic in a way, and the other one . . . Not so much.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    April 26, 2014 7:12 a.m.

    Mark B

    I can play this card too. If you want total gun control, total equality, somwhere that the Government has all the money, Militia free. There is such a place. Its called North Korea. No guns for anybody but the Government. People are starving to death but at least they are being treated equally right? Not a stuffed person among them. You dont have to worry about corporations bribing politicans because there are no corporations. There is no Milita or peotestors of any kind because if anyone questions the King, they are put to death.

    Obama is Jealous I think.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    April 26, 2014 8:38 a.m.

    @LOU Montana-

    "All men are created equal and the law shall be applied equally to all men."

    The law is not equal. There are at least thirty states where ranchers don't pay federal grazing taxes.

    The real thieves live in Washington DC. Many don't pay an honest tax, and free load.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    April 26, 2014 8:55 a.m.

    He isn't an heir of the KKK He's just ignorant. Stupidity isn't a sin.

    I think that slavery was bad for some and good for some. It was good for people like Frederick Douglas and Harriet Tubman. They became stronger fighting against its evil. It was bad for slave owners. They were the evil that the aforementioned fought against and their lives are now over and their chance to rise above their culture and paradigms is eternally over.

    Whatever happens: freedom or slavery will be both good and bad. It is what we do with it that makes the difference.

  • iron&clay RIVERTON, UT
    April 26, 2014 8:58 a.m.

    The notion that the federal government should own nearly all the land in the western states is in violation of the bill of rights.*

    The federal government should give back all the land and control of natural resources to state government for the benefit and prosperity of the individuals who live there.

    * 10th amendment

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    April 26, 2014 9:22 a.m.

    Yup, that's what I want. No milita OR peotestors.

  • riverofsun St.George, Utah
    April 26, 2014 9:23 a.m.

    According to other national newspapers, even the would renown Koch brothers have realized they made a mistake in supporting Cliven Bundy.
    That new bit of info informs the world of what Tea Party Republicans had planned. Had Cliven Bundy been more educated, non-racist, and articulate.......

  • U-tar Woodland Hills, UT
    April 26, 2014 9:25 a.m.

    I guess Mark B in Eureka Ca isn't predudice either. Grumpy, Old White guy, Bundy Wagon, Confused, Redneck. No predudice here, right?

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    April 26, 2014 10:12 a.m.

    Karen R.

    I live in Mexico and I'm more free there than I ever was here. If your independent and self-reliant, everything is just fine there.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    April 26, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    Rancher bundy is worse than a welfare queen; he's not just getting something from the government; he's stealing it. Any claim he has to nobility in the cause is negated by the fact he makes money at it. He's just some old crank who knows he's right and feels entitled to deride, beat or kill anyone or anything that opposes him.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    April 26, 2014 10:36 a.m.

    It was pointed out recently that LBJ said the same thing about Blacks in far less PC words. Something about welfare and making them democrat voters for the next 200 years.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    April 26, 2014 10:36 a.m.

    Mr. Bundy was born in the wrong century, 1700 seems about right. His actions are those of an anarchist and not a political party. Just as his cause has brought out right wing vigilante extremists, the Occupy movement brought out the far left lunatic fringe who had their own sometimes anarchist agenda. Once the facts are well known, Bundy will fade into history as a humorous footnote, possibly from a prison cell.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 26, 2014 10:55 a.m.

    The new conservative movement in America, built on paranoia, able to justify anything that someone on their side does. Mention that someone said something inappropriate and you are trying to take away his first amendment rights, mention gun control and you are trying to take away ALL guns from ALL Americans, support the government for doing what we the people have chartered the government to do, and you want to live in North Korea. Suggest that someone who has stolen millions of dollars of services be held accountable and you are anti American and fail to understand the true intention of the Constitution. Belief that this man is a thief and you fail to understand the history of country because this man is just like our founding fathers, fighting an oppressive government.

    Amazing how history, facts and the truth can continually be twisted and turned to justify the unjustifiable.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    April 26, 2014 11:06 a.m.

    riverofsun

    "According to other national newspapers, even the would renown Koch brothers have realized they made a mistake in supporting Cliven Bundy."

    Lay off the paranoid conspiracy theories. Why would they support a nobody like Cliven Bundy? Here is a true story, They supported Bill Clinton back in 1992.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    April 26, 2014 11:24 a.m.

    Worf, will you please provide us a list of those "30 states that don't collect Federal grazing fees?" Anyone want to bet that they are all eastern states in which there is simply no grazing on Federal lands?

    Here is an excellent example of the Karl Rovian tactic of distorting truth, but not exactly lying.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    April 26, 2014 11:26 a.m.

    No, U-tar, there is a difference between prejudice and simply stating the observable truth.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 26, 2014 11:46 a.m.

    He probably took down Hannity. Hugh media error. The Hannity program had arranged for two video crews. However people driving down I 14 had to take pictures of milita with high powered weapons aimed at law enforcement agents.

  • not here COLORADO SPRINGS, CO
    April 26, 2014 12:49 p.m.

    Hey Wolf, Please name the thirty states that don't charge grazing fees and I hope your not talking about those East of the Mississippi. Or maybe your only talking about texas.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    April 26, 2014 3:31 p.m.

    We can give billions in foreign aid to countries who hate us, but use 200 armed men to collect from a rancher who provides a service to his country.

    Go figure!

    Many political leaders, create expenses exceeding the taxes wanted on Bundy, and over thirty states have ranchers who pay no federal grazing fees.

    Why discriminate, and bully Bundy?

    Go figure again!

  • Unicorn 2000 Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 26, 2014 4:30 p.m.

    iron&clay: Individuals and state governments have shown time and time again that they should not be entrusted with such responsibility. Particularly in the State of Utah where we are willing to blow millions of dollars to build roads over delicate eco systems or have the right to drive recreation vehicles where ever people want to drive for a moment of fun or a few dollars profit.
    I would never relinquish federal protections for such responsibilities. There are plenty of ATV trails and recreation areas in this State and yet people always find a way to want more and more places to do this, regardless of the impact on the environment or archaeology on the area. Oh, and we blow millions of dollars of this money at the expense of things like education, which has been ridiculously underfunded for decades. This is not good decision making.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 26, 2014 4:46 p.m.

    Before the lynch mob goes after rancher Bundy, we should ponder the question he posed (albeit in an unartful manner):

    Are inner city people (of all races, but especially African Americans) better off now than slaves were?
    Are they truly more free? Are the financially better off, are their family units stronger, are their prospects for a better future better for a current generation or for a younger generation?

    Criticism of the failure of the liberal welfare state, and the virtual plantation it has become for a large segment of our population is not racist.

    If the results inflicted upon the poor, especially African Americans, were done by direct mandates instead of through seemingly benign or even supposedly helpful programs, there would be justifiable outrage. However, not a peep is said about the failed programs.

    Remember, Lyndon Johnson stated that his policies would "guarantee [African Americans} would vote Democrat for a hundred years." That does not mean is would actually improve the lives of those voters, only that it would benefit Democrats. He was right.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    April 26, 2014 8:22 p.m.

    I listed to Bundy's comments about slavery I have to say the guy must live in a bubble out there in the tumble weeds of Nevada. Holy cow - slavery - really? I thought people in this country were past that sort of language by about 50 years when the KKK was burning up the south. Even thinking that sort of thing out loud is offensive. A man is free to speak his mind but Bundy won't get any more sympathy from Utah that's for sure after those ugly comments. If you really think blacks are better off slaves then best to just keep those thoughts inside your pick up truck and not blab them out to the national media.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    April 27, 2014 9:43 a.m.

    @patriot

    Thank you for taking the time to express your opinion about Cliven Bundy.

    I agree with your comment.

    The only exception...

    Cliven Bundy will continue to get sympathy from people in Utah.

    His views can be heard daily in any venue visited especially by 50 something and older white gentlemen.

    Sad.

  • woolybruce Idaho Falls, ID
    April 27, 2014 11:04 a.m.

    He complains about Federal Government because he isn't paying fees to access Public Lands. He is as much on the Government dole as the people he is complaining about.

  • Hank Jr Draper, UT
    April 27, 2014 8:46 p.m.

    When you're right, you're right. Never back down from the truth.

  • PF Tooele, UT
    April 27, 2014 11:03 p.m.

    Speaking of "on the dole," he should look in the mirror.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    April 28, 2014 9:42 a.m.

    Let's see --

    He broke the law,
    He didn't pay taxes,
    aand
    He's an avowed racist...

    And the Tea-Party calls this guy a Patriotic Hero?

  • kiddsport Fairview, UT
    April 28, 2014 11:20 a.m.

    It amazes me after reading all the comments that no one has identified the crux of the problem- the Bundy family claims a tangible asset- grazing rights. That is the same as mineral rights to a property owner, although most people don't realize when they buy real property that mineral rights don't automatically get transferred to the new owner.
    It would be good to review the history of raising cattle in the West to understand how the Bundy family views their cross-generational claims to this real asset.

    It's also instructional to see how State governments might do a better job than the Feds of managing trust lands. As it turns out, neither universally performs well in that category. At least if the state is managing land assets, an individual's control is not watered down by representation of out-of-state interests.

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    April 28, 2014 2:28 p.m.

    Article: "I hope that I didn't offend anybody," Bundy said. "If I did, I ask for your forgiveness, but I'm not going to withdraw what I said."

    He may be well meaning and even a bit chastened by the blowback from his previous remarks, but Bundy's statement fails as an apology. It is couched in a conditional "if" that deflects personal responsibility for injury. A genuine, sincere apology acknowledges that the other party has been hurt (unconditionally) and assumes full responsibility for the hurt. It expresses empathy and an intention not to repeat the hurt. This statement does none of that and even doubles down on the original remarks. In the case of an apology over hurtful words, the one apologizing should be able to express some understanding of why the original words were perceived as hurtful (even if he or she did not intend them as hurtful). That is lacking here.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    April 29, 2014 9:33 a.m.

    All it took was a simple relaxed posture by the BLM and the government in general, a barrage of publicity by Sean Hannity, a week to allow this man to talk a little and let us all know a little bit more about who he is and presto change-oh! We see the sad little man who is the walking and talking (albeit--not in any kind of educated manner) embodiment of the far right and the tea party. To my good friends in the GOP, do not let this guy define you. Do not let the Fred Phelps' and the Cliven Bundy's and Donald Sterling's be the ever growing cornerstones of your political ideology. We need two strong parties in this nation and I, as a proud Democrat am starting to turn a deaf ear to those who align themselves with these types. As our flawed but beloved President recently said, "The ignorant will reveal themselves. Just let them talk."

  • CylonesRus sunamn, IN
    May 1, 2014 7:13 a.m.

    one old man
    To whom are you referring to?