Published: Friday, April 25 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT
Land under wind farms cannot be used for anything else?Okay, how
about telling that to a few hundred or thousand farmers in Iowa who are happily
receiving handsome checks for renting parcels of land for wind turbine platforms
and then continuing to plant and harvest crops all around and under them?
Real MaverickYou kind of missed J Thompsons point. He was only
referring to France as getting 75% of its power from nuclear. The rest of his
numbers are worldwide stats, not just France. yes he could have been a little
more clear in the way he posted it. However, his numbers do say something
important about how we get energy. And if I read the main point correctly, it
is that going wind power for a majority of our needs would likely be impossible.
Wind is fine, but so is every other source. And has anyone in the windmill
world taken into account the amount of metal that needs to be mined, by using
oil burning machines and furnaces, to make the windmills in the first place?
It's just like they are finding out that using corn to make gasoline makes
more pollution due to production than the cleaner fuel saves. You see, we are a
LONG way away from going totally off of liquid petroleum for much of our primary
I don't think liberals have a good grasp of the engineering that goes on
for the wind turbines. They are made out of carbon fiber composites. Carbon
fiber composites are made out of oil. Making really big towers out of petrolium
products can never eliminate our need for oil.To "Baron
Scarpia" Utah doesn't have many wind turbines because we don't
have enough wind to support many turbines. Plus, they mar the landscape more
than an oil or gas well.To "The Real Maverick" if oil was
held to the same scrutiny that wind power was we would probably cut the cost of
gasoline in half. You see there are few regulations that are actually enforced
regarding wind, plus they don't have to pay royalties for the wing they
Maverick,Where did you come up with your brilliant assertion that oil and
coal gets less scrutiny than wind??I think they get LOTS of
scrutiny.Just look at how long they've been analyzing and
re-analysing, and studying and re-studying the Keystone Pipeline proposal...
After now many times the Obama administration has put off the decision and told
them to go study it again and again... they just recently decided not to decide
AGAIN... and told them they haven't researched it enough yet. And every
study agrees it would be the safest pipeline we have ever built!How
many years of study and scrutiny is that... and you think WIND gets too much
scrutiny??How much government regulation is involved in oil
exploration? Do you even know?How many government agencies have
been created to monitor, regulate, inspect, and scrutinize coal mines?It's WAY more than wind, I can tell you that... and yet you whine that
"if only big oil and coal were held to the same level of scrutiny that wind
@RedShirtCalTechPasedena, CAI've worked with graphite for
over 30 years, graphite is made using pet coke, which an oil BY-product
(waste), and it is also used in the Steel and Aluminum industries. NO ONE was ever said anything about the 100% elimination of oil or it's
products.Why is a reduction such a bad thing?Why is looking at
green, renewable sources a bad thing?What is you issue with progress -
other than you hate progressives?But tell me Red, why should
we burn oil and gas - in the broad Day-light or on Windy days?[Day time is
when we used the most energy.]There fore -- Your premise is
@Red,You heard him...airnaut, LDS Liberal, LDS Treehugger, Open
minded Mormon, etc, etc, judged you... and declared "Your premise is
completely moot"... So you're done dude... totally mute by
declaration of an authority on the subject... sorry.===At least he acknowledged that you couldn't manufacture, much less operate
wind turbines without oil and oil byproducts (for the manufacturing process,
lubricants, transportation of components, assembly, etc, etc, etc...So at least one point you made was allowed to stand (by the self-declared
authority on the subject).You got lucky.===I
still think we ALL want a good planet. We just have different ideas of what
that is, and how to get there.Both are just as valid, just as noble,
just as worthy..But some want to insist that EVERYBODY adopt THEIR
ideas on Environmentalism... by force if needed. By the government force... if
needed.And if you resist... it's OK to take you away by force
and put you away.. maybe jail, in a concentration camp or something until you
accept THEIR level of environmentalism... (derived that from the solution they
came up with for the people who dared to protest the BLM)...
Amos...I, too, hope that someday a coal fired power plant is built 5 k's
upwind of your home.
Hutterite,We already have coal powered plants right in our own back yard
(Huntington). Coal powered plants that ship their electricity off to
California, Oregon and Washington!I think the huge one in Delta is
owned by Rocky Mt Power.... but I'm not sure.We also have wind
farms in Utah. Wind farms that ship 100% of their power off to California.IF we just had to worry about our own power needs (and not have to ship
our power off to the un-self-sustainable metropolises on the coasts)... we would
have cleaner air in Utah. At least the wind farms aren't
polluting our air...
just a point of clarification.... you don't ship power anywhere. You put
power on to the grid, and then pawer is drawn off from that grid. In the
west, BPA manages the grid. Contracts are bought and sold based on what a power
generator ships into the grid, and what consumers pull out. But
there is no pipe sending Utah energy down a wire to California. They are buying
and selling credits.
Maverick I would say we hold 'dirty industry' to a much higher
standard than we hold wind or solar to. Where is the outrage about the
'dirty' batteries from wind and solar that requires dirty mining and
dirty refining and dirty disposal when they are used? How about the dirty bird
kills from wind? How about the dirty problem of where will we get all the
electrical power to replace dirty fossil fuels? How about the dirty problem of
cost increases from higher energy prices that will harm poor people the most?
There is no "clean" energy!
@Thid BarkerVictor, IDMaverick I would say we hold 'dirty
industry' to a much higher standard than we hold wind or solar to. Where is
the outrage about the 'dirty' batteries from wind and solar that
requires dirty mining and dirty refining and dirty disposal when they are used?
======== Your complete and utter ignorance about this
technology is showing.Wind turbine do not use "'dirty'
batteries".If you are going to comment, at least be somewhat
@Thid Barker – “Where is the outrage about the 'dirty'
batteries from wind and solar that requires dirty mining and dirty refining and
dirty disposal when they are used? How about the dirty bird kills from
wind?”Would I be correct to assume that you never showed any
outrage or even cared much for environmental causes until it became an expedient
means of scoring political points? Nevermind… the question’s
rhetorical.The “bird kills” one is rich though…Wind turbines kill around half a million (that’s a high estimate)
birds per year. Sad, but small potatoes next to communication towers (5
million), vehicles (60 million) and the biggest killer of all – cats (low
estimates are hundreds of millions per year).If you’re this
worked up over wind turbines you must be positively psychotic about cats.
I was talking about the batteries solar power must use since the sun does not
shine all the time and therefore needs the batteries plus the batteries used in
electric cars. Mellow out!
I have a friend who has a windmill and yes, he has batteries that are charged by
the windmill! Criticize if you choose but be more knowledgeable.
@Thid BarkerVictor, IDI have a friend who has a windmill...
======= Fascinating -- you still consider him your
friend, and not your sworn bitter enemy?BTW -- your friend is trying
to live OFF the grid, Industrial wind turbine power UP the grid.BIG difference.Like I said, study the facts.
"And has anyone in the windmill world taken into account the amount of metal
that needs to be mined, by using oil burning machines and furnaces, to make the
windmills in the first place?"And just how much steel and like
resources you mention above will be required to build the need components for
the Keystone XL pipeline? Is anyone using these "cost" as a reason to
nowt build it. Keystone will be built. With Steel just like the
wind turbines. You can't criticize one, then ignore the same cost in the
other. If building wind turbines is "dirty"... then surely
building the pipeline will be as much or more. I think both should be built.
The exception is one will transport and use energy and the other will generate
it. Perhaps they can use wind turbine power to generate the electricity for the
compressors on the pipeline.... who knows.
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