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Letter: Percentage-based wage raises unfair

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  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2014 12:46 a.m.

    "just about anyone can answer the phone, "

    Haha. You don't run a business, do you?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 25, 2014 3:29 p.m.

    GZE
    if their value was the same, their pay would be the same - or at least a lot closer. just about anyone can answer the phone, but those qualified to fill the role of assistant manager of whatever are more scarce, thus they are paid more.

    Schnee,
    if the person making $70K gets a $3500 raise, theirs is a 5% increase - if the person making $20k gets a $3500 raise, theirs is 17.5% increase - over 3 times as much. Unless the relative value of the $20k employee increased by 17.5%, they would be overpaid.

    Anti-liar,
    I am not trying to argue, but can you please cite your source for the fact you say is proven? And perhaps domestic STEMs are pricing themselves out of the market.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 11:18 a.m.

    @lost in DC
    "If you give both the same dollar raise, you are overpaying the person making $20k unless the value they provide increases significantly more than the value provided by the person making $70k. A percentage rather than a set dollar increase recognizes the difference in value"

    Depends on what you mean by value increases. If your value increase is a percent than the percent is the way to go, if the value increase is a dollar amount more than the dollar amount increase is the way to go.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 9:44 a.m.

    lost in DC

    First, it has nothing to do with me. Second, yes I am talking about more than one thing. It is a proven fact that American businessmen are exploiting the H1-B visa system in order to IMPORT cheaper, foreign replacements of qualified American STEMs, in a systematic effort to avoid paying their American STEMs a fair wage. Often these visa holders return to their home countries -- and take their American jobs with them, yes. Others overstay their visas, along with illegal aliens working in other labor sectors.

    "...the value provided by the person earning $20k is significantly less than that provided by the person marking $70k."

    This again seems to assume that everyone is paid exactly what they deserve to be paid and have earned. I don't care what Milton Friedman may say, it simply is not true in reality.

  • GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    April 25, 2014 9:06 a.m.

    "the value provided by the person earning $20k is significantly less than that provided by the person marking $70k."

    Really? Who do you miss at your place of employment when they call in sick? The Assistant Manager of Whatever? Or the person who answers the phone?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 25, 2014 8:24 a.m.

    The problem with Ron's premise is it ignores the fact that the value provided by the person earning $20k is significantly less than that provided by the person making $70k. If you give both the same dollar raise, you are overpaying the person making $20k unless the value they provide increases significantly more than the value provided by the person making $70k. A percentage rather than a set dollar increase recognizes the difference in value

    Anti-liar,
    You are correct in excoriating the chamber for wanting lax enforcement of immigration laws, but I hardly think the illegals are taking STEM jobs. Those jobs are being exported because a STEM in India works for 1/10 the wage as a STEM here. The idea of wage gaps and job exportation are somewhat related, like an apple and an orange (both are fruits), but they are really not the same.

    I am sorry if your search for work has been unrewarding (as it sounds). You can rightly blame BO for his lax immigration enforcement, his inability to make a decision on projects like the Keystone pipeline that would hire engineers, etc., and his overall bungling of the economy and anti-business attitude.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    April 25, 2014 8:04 a.m.

    Don't worry liberals, I have good news for you! IRS employees are getting bonuses again this year!

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 1:11 a.m.

    Re: Mike Richards

    "If you're only making $20,000 a year, you can give yourself a huge raise by adding value."

    Hmm I wonder why that hasn't worked out for talented, well-trained, well-qualified American STEM's, for example.

    The statement above brazenly denies, or perhaps is ignorant of, the fact that most today who are making $20,000 a year or less are paid substantially less than what they ALREADY have justly earned and deserve considering their CURRENT value and productivity.

    It is remarkable how cavalierly and conveniently some completely sidestep (or perhaps miss) the elements of employer greed and inequality of bargaining power which these employers callously take advantage of.

    Why do you think the Chambers of Commerce maintain a posture of opposition to earnest enforcement of immigration law in the nation's interior and basically condone illegal employment of illegal aliens? Is this not only one part of a conscious -- and successful -- effort to cheat American workers out of the wage they ALREADY have justly earned?

    Would you say the same regarding the well-trained American STEM's who again are being systematically cheated by the oligarchs who keep pushing for a veritable flood of cheaper, foreign replacements?

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 24, 2014 9:17 p.m.

    People who make $70,000 a year are in no way responsible for the growing gap between workers and the wealthy. People who make $70,000 an hour are the culprits. Some people may think I'm exaggerating, but I'm most assuredly not.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 24, 2014 5:59 p.m.

    If you're only making $20,000 a year, you can give yourself a huge raise by adding value. At $20,000 a year, you don't have any extraordinary skills. You're not in "great demand". You've done little to prepare yourself for the world of work.

    If you're making $70,000 a year, you've been trained. You have experience that is in high demand. You've paid the price to qualify for a job.

    Training must never stop. I'm almost at retirement age, but I still spend about two hours a day, sharpening my skills. I've done that all of my life. So have all the successful people that I know.

    I don't get a cost of living raise, I get paid what I am worth. I don't ask for more nor do I accept less.