Bundy's not the face of land issues, but he may be the face of a government
that is too big and out of control. Sending a SWAT team to decide a civil
matter? What 6 year old video game player thought that up? Attach a lien to the
property and call it good. Or, send a SWAT team to the houses of the delinquent
IRS employees who got bonuses. Gotta treat everyone equally, right?
Lesson for Republicans: When a guy is perfectly comfortable having armed
militias defend him against the government, he might not be the kind of guy you
want to hold up as your hero.
What kind of self-described "Patriots" take up arms against my U.S.A.?
They can wave flags all they want, but they are not the "well-regulated
militia" of the 2nd Amendment.
"to tell a race of people that they were better off when they were owned and
bought and sold as possessions..."Did you listen to the audio,
carefully? I did.That is not what Mr. Bundy said. But don't let
the truth change your mind. Those looking for offense will always find it.BTW, to Mr. Bundy, a rancher who works 60 hours a week minimum, being
idle would be a miserable existence.Since we are all supposed to
take into account the past history of the African Americans' ancestors, and
not utter the word 'slavery' in their presence, shouldn't we also
take into account Mr. Bundy's life history before we criticize him?
"..."I've heard about the racist comments, which, I think, are
based in ignorance and are certainly despicable and offensive if they are, in
fact, true,"...".If in fact they are true.The
racist, ignorant, despicable, offensive comments were true.Sean
Hannity spent 9 days building Cliven Bundy into folk-hero status on Fox News.
It is easy to see how Gary might not be sure if what was
He's gone from being the face of the tea party to the face of every
stereotype of the tea party liberals have.
@Batgerbadger"To be racist, there needs to be an element of
intent to insult or hate. There was no intent, just awkward wording, using some
words that are not PC today."So to tell a race of people that
they were better off when they were owned and bought and sold as possessions
isn't insulting or hateful? That goes beyond being PC. When I
talked to an in-law of mine who is African-American (and a fiery Republican),
she was very insulted by his comments. She assured me her ancestors who worked
on the plantations in South Carolina were not better off than she is. It is
akin to telling the Israelis they were better off working for the Egyptians
building the pyramids. At least they had jobs, right?
Worf –Ranchers don’t pay “taxes” on grazing
cattle.From honest, upright, non-parasitical ranchers, “We
the people of the United States . . .” receive a certain amount per head
for the right to graze on public lands.Copy Cat –“One man decided what got cut, B. H. Obama?”Absolutely
WRONG.National Parks are part of discretionary spending. The way
sequestration works according to the office of Management and Budget, “ .
. . Congress can choose to cut or spare individual programs through the
appropriations process . . . “But Congress did NOT choose to
keep Utah's National Parks open.Right Wingers certainly are a
If you want to see real racism, check out President and Mrs. Obama's
favorite pastor's sermons. Jeremiah Wright's rants put Cliven
Bundy's 60's jargon in perspective. Mr. Bundy didn't
say one hateful thing, not one.He didn't cheer on the harm of
people.He made an awkward non-PC reference to slavery.Contrast
that with the President's favorite minister, Rev. Wright, cheering on the
deaths of 9/11, saying it was just, and calling on God to bring destruction on
American Caucasian society.Democrats and their press gave excused
Rev. Wright. Democrats and their press condemn Mr. Bundy, and then
try to put all conservatives in the noose with him.Just thought that
disparity should be pointed out.
The irony of a moocher calling others moochers is exceptionalism?The
simple truth of the matter is that Bundy is a freeloading, welfare rancher who
has an inflated sense of entitlement.The militia types from
out-of-state also showed up, heavily armed. They talked openly about firing on
BLM rangers and federal law enforcement officers. In one report, one of the
militia types — a retired sheriff from Arizona and member of the Oath
Keepers — Richard Mack, said they were planning to put the women and
children in front.“I would have put my own wife or daughters there,
and I would have been screaming bloody murder to watch them die,” he said.
“I would’ve gone next, I would have been the next one to be killed.
I’m not afraid to die here. I’m willing to die here.”Clark County records show that Cliven Bundy’s parents bought his
‘ancestral’ 160 acre ranch in 1948, and didn’t start grazing
cattle on the adjacent federal lands until 1954. Prior to that, they lived in
Arizona. Bundy himself was born in 1946.
OGaryONice try. Congress and the president, democrats
and republicans created sequestration. One man decided what got cut,
B. H. Obama. He cut what hurt citizens most, citizens who vote Republican that
@GaryO:Hmm?What taxes do Virginians pay on their grazing
cattle?Doesn't Obama's vacations funds come from good,
decent, honest, upright, hardworking, patriotic, and non-parasitic ranchers?
His wages aren't in the hundreds of millions!See how that
OReally – “Just what is Bundy stealing from the people?”He’s stealing grass from a habitat that has very little grass. If
Bundy’s cows graze there. The cattle belonging to good, decent, honest,
upright, hardworking, patriotic, and non-parasitic ranchers cannot. See how
that works? A1194 – “ do you really have any idea what
is going on out West?”You live in the West. You don’t
live in the OLD West. I don’t have to rely on the Pony express. I can
access the Deseret News online, and they would never misrepresent the facts
would they?Pat - Yes, Bundy lives in Nevada. Would this be a good
time for the state of Nevada to negotiate with the Federal Government regarding
the control of public lands?Copy Cat – “President Obama
(D) made sure the Parks in Utah went unfunded during sequestration.”Unwise Republicans in Congress INSISTED on sequestration. And they got
what they asked for. Obama is not responsible for the horrible representation
you Republicans get in Congress.
Again the right wing is running for cover. They threw their towel in with this
guy for the publicity and now they have the unwanted publicity of this
situation. Fox News again showed the blind tactics they use to drum up ratings
and then get slapped in the face. They deserve the beating they are getting for
picking the side of Mr. Bundy.
Ol' Cliven has seen the lights and the camera. He seems to love them.Stay tuned for more outrageous statements. Intelligent folks in the know
will begin to put a great deal of space between themselves and Ol' Clive.
GaryO is a little quick to the trigger, but he is partly right. Utah will get no
sympathy, not because of Bundy, but because they never vote for democrat
presidents.That is why President Obama (D) made sure the Parks in
Utah went unfunded during sequestration. It wasn't about money, it was
Bundy used language of the 60's. Not surprising. He doesn't have time
to watch TV to catch up to the times. He is out growing meat for us and our
children. He undoubtedly puts in double the hours per week of most workers, with
no extended visits to a break room. (Remember the Paul Harvey Superbowl ad about
farmers)To be racist, there needs to be an element of intent to
insult or hate. There was no intent, just awkward wording, using some words that
are not PC today. In the 60's they were PC. The guy doesn't get to
civilization much, clearly. It was not racist. If you want to
nitpick the language, go ahead, but the man clearly has love and compassion for
all his fellowmen regardless of race. Calling him a racist just shows how silly
and petty the whole PC thing has become. Cliven Bundy exhibits no
hate, therefore no racism.
@GaryO: Bundy lives in Nevada, not Utah.
@GaryOIf you live in Virginia Beach, do you really have any idea
what is going on out West? Just curious.
Bundy is definitely not the face of public lands issues.... All the ranchers I
know think he was dead wrong
@Mack2828Nothing has been taken out of context. Bundy's entire
comments are easily accessible. His comments are racist by any standard.
Out of context until a video surfaces. His 15 minutes is over. Radical extremist
I remember well my mother telling us children that if you laid down with dogs
you were bound to get up with flees, which to me was saying be careful son who
you associate with.I did not find Bunnyy's remarks racist at all
although he should have known others would have different opinions. Having lived
among blacks for many years I admired their family life.More is not always
the best if not manage properly.
GaryO. Just what is Bundy stealing from the people. Did you want that grass for
The mental gymnastics surrounding his comments have been nothing short of
olympic. Many of the people who championed him are emphatically condemning what
he said, but some are doubling down and cry "context". This is a
spectacular showing from people who decry the "censorship by PC".
Good for the governor! There is much more to this Bundy situation than meets the
eye. For one thing Bundy seems to be wrapping himself in the flag while
denouncing the country the flag represents. For another, it's the grazing
fees he's refusing to pay, but others do pay, that allow him lifestyle he
so enjoys. For me the jury is out on whether the state or the feds
should control the land, but here's a possible scenario: Suppose Nevada is
given control of federal land within its borders then sells that land to mega
ranches that put barbed wire and "No Trespassing" signs all over the
place. Then where would Mr. Bundy's lifestyle be? Just sayin'.
How is Clivan Bundy not the face of the public lands issue?He and
his greedy, anti-Government, anti-American antics have received a huge amount
of press coverage.The "face of the public lands issue" is in
fact Clive Bundy, a self-described Conservative who thinks he has a RIGHT to
steal from the people of the United States.As a consequence, the
state of Utah will run into much more resistance in negotiating with the Federal
Government than if Bundy had not thrown his tantrum, and if like-minded citizens
had not so vociferously defended him, even to the point of armed conflict with
government employees.I predict the state of Utah will receive NO
sympathetic ear now from the US government.And the State of Utah can
thank Right Wing Extremism for that.Have you noticed how Right
Wingers seem to have a real knack for obstructing and destroying? . . . But
they can't seem to do anything constructive for the nation or for their
I didn't find his words racist. All he was saying was that people who are
working hard and being productive are happier than people who are living on the
dole. Shame on the media for yanking it out of context and painting
this man as a racist. He mentioned a particular race, because that
particular race has unfortunately been victimized the most by the government
dole.Put a lein on his property and leave the man alone. It's
really that simple.
I don't think Bundy's words were racist as much as just too
generalized. No, it's not better to be a slave but he has a point when he
criticizes govt. for enabling poverty (no matter the race) by encouraging people
to be on the dole.
@Montanman"The real issue here is not whether Bundy owes the
government for grazing fees."That's the only issue here. As a
good parent tells their children, "You have the right to choose but you
don't get to pick the consquences". Agreed the BLM probably
could have handled it better. They should have brought a couple of tanks with
them and leveled his place if he didn't come peacefully. Problem solved
and it sure would have deterred any copy cat free loaders wanting to thumb their
nose at law enforcement.
Mach2828 said:"In my minds eye I can see them gathered around a
white board in a conference room coming up with a new game plan. PLAN:
"He's not media savvy so let's goad him into saying something
controversial and them get all the media to jump on it and smear him. "The problem with that theory is that Cliven Bundy called a press
conference, and that's where he said all the crazy stuff. You can't
blame the press for "goading" him into saying dumb stuff at a press
conference that he himself called.And you can't blame the BLM
for wisely predicting that if they stood down and just let Bundy talk, he'd
dig his own grave with his ignorant words.
@ andyjaggy: Do a search on Kena Gloeckner for a view on the situation from
other Nevada ranchers.@ trueamerican56: Do a search on the Kit Laney
ranch seizure, the Red River land dispute between Oklahoma, Texas, and the BLM
& Forest Service, and on U.S. v. Hage court case regarding BLM and Forest
Service action against E. Wayne Hage.Agree or disagree with the
issue, but there is more to it than a single isolated case regarding the Bundy
The real issue here is not whether Bundy owes the government for grazing fees.
Certainly he does. The issue is not whether he is a racist or not. I don't
know if he is or not. The real issue and I think the reason so many other people
stood with him was the totally unnecessary overreach of the government sending
in 200 armed police, aiming their guns and threatening innocent people, killing
his cattle and acting like the Gestapo. That is wrong and is the stuff that
happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco. It is wrong and should be condemned, period!
All the government had to do was put a lien on his property. The government gets
their money and the problem is solved. But no, the big, bad Federal Government
has to show who's boss, like a school yard bully! Harry Reid should have
condemned this unwarranted massive show of force instead of condoning it!
These issues have been going on since long before any of us were born. It
doesn't seem to matter who is in the White House or Congress, they always
get pushed to the back burner. Utah's Governor is telling us who isn't
the face of Land Use issues, but he doesn't tell us who is. That's the
real problem here.
Some questions:* How many ranchers east of the Mississippi River pay
federal income tax on their grazing cattle?* If the Nevada rancher
is cheating by not paying federal taxes. Why is it not cheating when the head
of the federal government takes hundreds of millions from our citizens for
vacations? Are taxes being paid on these vacation funds?* Should
our federal government be using armed men to collect taxes, or taking property
from its people?* Do our political leaders take money from the
people outside of their employment wages?* Shouldn't our
government put out a monthly graph, showing how our tax money is being spent?
Being accountable to the people.* Why is this country in debt at the
tune of $100,000 for every second of seven years?
When you lie with fleas, you will get fleas. Bundy is a thief, not much
different then Wall Street, the wealthy and corporations, they steal from
taxpayers and honest law abiding people. He was stealing the public's land
without paying for rights and permits that would have allowed him to do it, and
given the public a resource to keep the land free. Politicians that sided with
him and no better then him, corrupt fools.The part that amused me,
was him riding around with an American flag, trying to justify his cause, then
claiming he doesn't recognize the US government, which represents the land
he is stealing.
He's already seen as a loon, at least by many. Do you see many other
ranchers coming to his aid or defense? Search Bud Purdy if you want to know what
a real westerner and a real rancher is like.
It sounds to me like Harry Reid and the Fed's at the BLM got together and
figured out a new plan of attack. In my minds eye I can see them gathered
around a white board in a conference room coming up with a new game plan. PLAN:
"He's not media savvy so let's goad him into saying something
controversial and them get all the media to jump on it and smear him. This will
erode his image as a down to earth rancher and make him look like a loon. That
will make it easier to roll in with the dogs and SWAT troops again and finish
the job." It's shameful for our government to treat
it's citizens like this. Why not just put a lein on his property and be
done with it?
Well said Governor!! I wrote letters to all of our elected and state officals
this past week encouraging them to support the law and our courts over any
inflamed rhetoric coming from either side. The comments of support over the
weekend he got from several, elected Utah officals was disapointing to say the
least. Bundy's recent, pre-1978 comments give an indication on this
man's values and mindset. Clive Bundy needs to pay his grazing fees, late
fees and court costs and if he does not he needs to be tossed in jail and his
property sold to pay off his debts. He'll soon become just another
footnote on a fool's errand to turn over public lands to a few private