Herbert: Embattled Nevada rancher 'not the face' of public lands issue


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  • The Judge Kaysville, UT
    April 27, 2014 9:28 a.m.

    Bundy's not the face of land issues, but he may be the face of a government that is too big and out of control. Sending a SWAT team to decide a civil matter? What 6 year old video game player thought that up? Attach a lien to the property and call it good. Or, send a SWAT team to the houses of the delinquent IRS employees who got bonuses. Gotta treat everyone equally, right?

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    April 26, 2014 8:36 a.m.

    Lesson for Republicans: When a guy is perfectly comfortable having armed militias defend him against the government, he might not be the kind of guy you want to hold up as your hero.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    April 25, 2014 8:19 p.m.

    What kind of self-described "Patriots" take up arms against my U.S.A.? They can wave flags all they want, but they are not the "well-regulated militia" of the 2nd Amendment.

  • forward thinker Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 4:34 p.m.

    "to tell a race of people that they were better off when they were owned and bought and sold as possessions..."

    Did you listen to the audio, carefully? I did.

    That is not what Mr. Bundy said. But don't let the truth change your mind. Those looking for offense will always find it.

    BTW, to Mr. Bundy, a rancher who works 60 hours a week minimum, being idle would be a miserable existence.

    Since we are all supposed to take into account the past history of the African Americans' ancestors, and not utter the word 'slavery' in their presence, shouldn't we also take into account Mr. Bundy's life history before we criticize him?

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    April 25, 2014 3:42 p.m.

    "..."I've heard about the racist comments, which, I think, are based in ignorance and are certainly despicable and offensive if they are, in fact, true,"...".

    If in fact they are true.

    The racist, ignorant, despicable, offensive comments were true.

    Sean Hannity spent 9 days building Cliven Bundy into folk-hero status on Fox News.

    It is easy to see how Gary might not be sure if what was reported...was accurate.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 12:38 p.m.

    He's gone from being the face of the tea party to the face of every stereotype of the tea party liberals have.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    April 25, 2014 12:08 p.m.


    "To be racist, there needs to be an element of intent to insult or hate. There was no intent, just awkward wording, using some words that are not PC today."

    So to tell a race of people that they were better off when they were owned and bought and sold as possessions isn't insulting or hateful? That goes beyond being PC.

    When I talked to an in-law of mine who is African-American (and a fiery Republican), she was very insulted by his comments. She assured me her ancestors who worked on the plantations in South Carolina were not better off than she is. It is akin to telling the Israelis they were better off working for the Egyptians building the pyramids. At least they had jobs, right?

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 25, 2014 10:22 a.m.

    Worf –

    Ranchers don’t pay “taxes” on grazing cattle.

    From honest, upright, non-parasitical ranchers, “We the people of the United States . . .” receive a certain amount per head for the right to graze on public lands.

    Copy Cat –

    “One man decided what got cut, B. H. Obama?”

    Absolutely WRONG.

    National Parks are part of discretionary spending. The way sequestration works according to the office of Management and Budget, “ . . . Congress can choose to cut or spare individual programs through the appropriations process . . . “

    But Congress did NOT choose to keep Utah's National Parks open.

    Right Wingers certainly are a misinformed group.

  • forward thinker Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    If you want to see real racism, check out President and Mrs. Obama's favorite pastor's sermons. Jeremiah Wright's rants put Cliven Bundy's 60's jargon in perspective.

    Mr. Bundy didn't say one hateful thing, not one.
    He didn't cheer on the harm of people.
    He made an awkward non-PC reference to slavery.

    Contrast that with the President's favorite minister, Rev. Wright, cheering on the deaths of 9/11, saying it was just, and calling on God to bring destruction on American Caucasian society.

    Democrats and their press gave excused Rev. Wright.

    Democrats and their press condemn Mr. Bundy, and then try to put all conservatives in the noose with him.

    Just thought that disparity should be pointed out.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    April 25, 2014 10:12 a.m.

    The irony of a moocher calling others moochers is exceptionalism?

    The simple truth of the matter is that Bundy is a freeloading, welfare rancher who has an inflated sense of entitlement.

    The militia types from out-of-state also showed up, heavily armed. They talked openly about firing on BLM rangers and federal law enforcement officers. In one report, one of the militia types — a retired sheriff from Arizona and member of the Oath Keepers — Richard Mack, said they were planning to put the women and children in front.
    “I would have put my own wife or daughters there, and I would have been screaming bloody murder to watch them die,” he said. “I would’ve gone next, I would have been the next one to be killed. I’m not afraid to die here. I’m willing to die here.”

    Clark County records show that Cliven Bundy’s parents bought his ‘ancestral’ 160 acre ranch in 1948, and didn’t start grazing cattle on the adjacent federal lands until 1954. Prior to that, they lived in Arizona. Bundy himself was born in 1946.

  • Copy Cat Murray, UT
    April 25, 2014 9:25 a.m.


    Nice try.

    Congress and the president, democrats and republicans created sequestration.

    One man decided what got cut, B. H. Obama. He cut what hurt citizens most, citizens who vote Republican that is.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    April 25, 2014 9:13 a.m.



    What taxes do Virginians pay on their grazing cattle?

    Doesn't Obama's vacations funds come from good, decent, honest, upright, hardworking, patriotic, and non-parasitic ranchers? His wages aren't in the hundreds of millions!

    See how that works.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 25, 2014 8:50 a.m.

    OReally – “Just what is Bundy stealing from the people?”

    He’s stealing grass from a habitat that has very little grass. If Bundy’s cows graze there. The cattle belonging to good, decent, honest, upright, hardworking, patriotic, and non-parasitic ranchers cannot. See how that works?

    A1194 – “ do you really have any idea what is going on out West?”

    You live in the West. You don’t live in the OLD West. I don’t have to rely on the Pony express. I can access the Deseret News online, and they would never misrepresent the facts would they?

    Pat - Yes, Bundy lives in Nevada. Would this be a good time for the state of Nevada to negotiate with the Federal Government regarding the control of public lands?

    Copy Cat – “President Obama (D) made sure the Parks in Utah went unfunded during sequestration.”

    Unwise Republicans in Congress INSISTED on sequestration. And they got what they asked for. Obama is not responsible for the horrible representation you Republicans get in Congress.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 6:13 a.m.

    Again the right wing is running for cover. They threw their towel in with this guy for the publicity and now they have the unwanted publicity of this situation. Fox News again showed the blind tactics they use to drum up ratings and then get slapped in the face. They deserve the beating they are getting for picking the side of Mr. Bundy.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    April 24, 2014 11:02 p.m.

    Ol' Cliven has seen the lights and the camera. He seems to love them.
    Stay tuned for more outrageous statements.
    Intelligent folks in the know will begin to put a great deal of space between themselves and Ol' Clive.

  • Copy Cat Murray, UT
    April 24, 2014 10:46 p.m.

    GaryO is a little quick to the trigger, but he is partly right. Utah will get no sympathy, not because of Bundy, but because they never vote for democrat presidents.

    That is why President Obama (D) made sure the Parks in Utah went unfunded during sequestration. It wasn't about money, it was about punishment.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    April 24, 2014 10:41 p.m.

    Bundy used language of the 60's. Not surprising. He doesn't have time to watch TV to catch up to the times. He is out growing meat for us and our children. He undoubtedly puts in double the hours per week of most workers, with no extended visits to a break room. (Remember the Paul Harvey Superbowl ad about farmers)

    To be racist, there needs to be an element of intent to insult or hate. There was no intent, just awkward wording, using some words that are not PC today. In the 60's they were PC. The guy doesn't get to civilization much, clearly.

    It was not racist. If you want to nitpick the language, go ahead, but the man clearly has love and compassion for all his fellowmen regardless of race. Calling him a racist just shows how silly and petty the whole PC thing has become.

    Cliven Bundy exhibits no hate, therefore no racism.

  • pat1 Taylorsville, UT
    April 24, 2014 9:51 p.m.

    @GaryO: Bundy lives in Nevada, not Utah.

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    April 24, 2014 9:29 p.m.


    If you live in Virginia Beach, do you really have any idea what is going on out West? Just curious.

  • Justmythoughts Provo, UT
    April 24, 2014 8:48 p.m.

    Bundy is definitely not the face of public lands issues.... All the ranchers I know think he was dead wrong

  • DrGroovey Salt Lake City, UT
    April 24, 2014 7:23 p.m.


    Nothing has been taken out of context. Bundy's entire comments are easily accessible. His comments are racist by any standard.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 24, 2014 7:22 p.m.

    Out of context until a video surfaces. His 15 minutes is over. Radical extremist talk.

  • Rebel ,
    April 24, 2014 6:52 p.m.

    I remember well my mother telling us children that if you laid down with dogs you were bound to get up with flees, which to me was saying be careful son who you associate with.
    I did not find Bunnyy's remarks racist at all although he should have known others would have different opinions. Having lived among blacks for many years I admired their family life.
    More is not always the best if not manage properly.

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    April 24, 2014 6:48 p.m.

    GaryO. Just what is Bundy stealing from the people. Did you want that grass for yourself?

  • HelioTeller Mapleton, UT
    April 24, 2014 6:42 p.m.

    The mental gymnastics surrounding his comments have been nothing short of olympic. Many of the people who championed him are emphatically condemning what he said, but some are doubling down and cry "context". This is a spectacular showing from people who decry the "censorship by PC".

  • DonO Draper, UT
    April 24, 2014 5:58 p.m.

    Good for the governor! There is much more to this Bundy situation than meets the eye. For one thing Bundy seems to be wrapping himself in the flag while denouncing the country the flag represents. For another, it's the grazing fees he's refusing to pay, but others do pay, that allow him lifestyle he so enjoys.

    For me the jury is out on whether the state or the feds should control the land, but here's a possible scenario: Suppose Nevada is given control of federal land within its borders then sells that land to mega ranches that put barbed wire and "No Trespassing" signs all over the place. Then where would Mr. Bundy's lifestyle be? Just sayin'.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 24, 2014 5:19 p.m.

    How is Clivan Bundy not the face of the public lands issue?

    He and his greedy, anti-Government, anti-American antics have received a huge amount of press coverage.

    The "face of the public lands issue" is in fact Clive Bundy, a self-described Conservative who thinks he has a RIGHT to steal from the people of the United States.

    As a consequence, the state of Utah will run into much more resistance in negotiating with the Federal Government than if Bundy had not thrown his tantrum, and if like-minded citizens had not so vociferously defended him, even to the point of armed conflict with government employees.

    I predict the state of Utah will receive NO sympathetic ear now from the US government.

    And the State of Utah can thank Right Wing Extremism for that.

    Have you noticed how Right Wingers seem to have a real knack for obstructing and destroying? . . . But they can't seem to do anything constructive for the nation or for their states.

  • Mack2828 Ft Thomas, KY
    April 24, 2014 5:01 p.m.

    I didn't find his words racist. All he was saying was that people who are working hard and being productive are happier than people who are living on the dole.

    Shame on the media for yanking it out of context and painting this man as a racist.

    He mentioned a particular race, because that particular race has unfortunately been victimized the most by the government dole.

    Put a lein on his property and leave the man alone. It's really that simple.

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    April 24, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    I don't think Bundy's words were racist as much as just too generalized. No, it's not better to be a slave but he has a point when he criticizes govt. for enabling poverty (no matter the race) by encouraging people to be on the dole.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    April 24, 2014 4:26 p.m.

    "The real issue here is not whether Bundy owes the government for grazing fees."
    That's the only issue here. As a good parent tells their children, "You have the right to choose but you don't get to pick the consquences".
    Agreed the BLM probably could have handled it better. They should have brought a couple of tanks with them and leveled his place if he didn't come peacefully. Problem solved and it sure would have deterred any copy cat free loaders wanting to thumb their nose at law enforcement.

  • RedneckLefty St. George, UT
    April 24, 2014 4:12 p.m.

    Mach2828 said:

    "In my minds eye I can see them gathered around a white board in a conference room coming up with a new game plan. PLAN: "He's not media savvy so let's goad him into saying something controversial and them get all the media to jump on it and smear him. "

    The problem with that theory is that Cliven Bundy called a press conference, and that's where he said all the crazy stuff. You can't blame the press for "goading" him into saying dumb stuff at a press conference that he himself called.

    And you can't blame the BLM for wisely predicting that if they stood down and just let Bundy talk, he'd dig his own grave with his ignorant words.

  • GiuseppeG Murray, Utah
    April 24, 2014 4:09 p.m.

    @ andyjaggy: Do a search on Kena Gloeckner for a view on the situation from other Nevada ranchers.

    @ trueamerican56: Do a search on the Kit Laney ranch seizure, the Red River land dispute between Oklahoma, Texas, and the BLM & Forest Service, and on U.S. v. Hage court case regarding BLM and Forest Service action against E. Wayne Hage.

    Agree or disagree with the issue, but there is more to it than a single isolated case regarding the Bundy family.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    April 24, 2014 3:53 p.m.

    The real issue here is not whether Bundy owes the government for grazing fees. Certainly he does. The issue is not whether he is a racist or not. I don't know if he is or not. The real issue and I think the reason so many other people stood with him was the totally unnecessary overreach of the government sending in 200 armed police, aiming their guns and threatening innocent people, killing his cattle and acting like the Gestapo. That is wrong and is the stuff that happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco. It is wrong and should be condemned, period! All the government had to do was put a lien on his property. The government gets their money and the problem is solved. But no, the big, bad Federal Government has to show who's boss, like a school yard bully! Harry Reid should have condemned this unwarranted massive show of force instead of condoning it!

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    April 24, 2014 3:46 p.m.

    These issues have been going on since long before any of us were born. It doesn't seem to matter who is in the White House or Congress, they always get pushed to the back burner. Utah's Governor is telling us who isn't the face of Land Use issues, but he doesn't tell us who is. That's the real problem here.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    April 24, 2014 3:44 p.m.

    Some questions:

    * How many ranchers east of the Mississippi River pay federal income tax on their grazing cattle?

    * If the Nevada rancher is cheating by not paying federal taxes. Why is it not cheating when the head of the federal government takes hundreds of millions from our citizens for vacations? Are taxes being paid on these vacation funds?

    * Should our federal government be using armed men to collect taxes, or taking property from its people?

    * Do our political leaders take money from the people outside of their employment wages?

    * Shouldn't our government put out a monthly graph, showing how our tax money is being spent? Being accountable to the people.

    * Why is this country in debt at the tune of $100,000 for every second of seven years?

  • TrueAmerican56 Corpus Christi, TX
    April 24, 2014 3:24 p.m.

    When you lie with fleas, you will get fleas. Bundy is a thief, not much different then Wall Street, the wealthy and corporations, they steal from taxpayers and honest law abiding people. He was stealing the public's land without paying for rights and permits that would have allowed him to do it, and given the public a resource to keep the land free. Politicians that sided with him and no better then him, corrupt fools.

    The part that amused me, was him riding around with an American flag, trying to justify his cause, then claiming he doesn't recognize the US government, which represents the land he is stealing.

  • andyjaggy American Fork, UT
    April 24, 2014 3:08 p.m.

    He's already seen as a loon, at least by many. Do you see many other ranchers coming to his aid or defense? Search Bud Purdy if you want to know what a real westerner and a real rancher is like.

  • Mack2828 Ft Thomas, KY
    April 24, 2014 2:41 p.m.

    It sounds to me like Harry Reid and the Fed's at the BLM got together and figured out a new plan of attack.
    In my minds eye I can see them gathered around a white board in a conference room coming up with a new game plan. PLAN: "He's not media savvy so let's goad him into saying something controversial and them get all the media to jump on it and smear him. This will erode his image as a down to earth rancher and make him look like a loon. That will make it easier to roll in with the dogs and SWAT troops again and finish the job."

    It's shameful for our government to treat it's citizens like this. Why not just put a lein on his property and be done with it?

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    April 24, 2014 2:22 p.m.

    Well said Governor!! I wrote letters to all of our elected and state officals this past week encouraging them to support the law and our courts over any inflamed rhetoric coming from either side. The comments of support over the weekend he got from several, elected Utah officals was disapointing to say the least. Bundy's recent, pre-1978 comments give an indication on this man's values and mindset. Clive Bundy needs to pay his grazing fees, late fees and court costs and if he does not he needs to be tossed in jail and his property sold to pay off his debts. He'll soon become just another footnote on a fool's errand to turn over public lands to a few private interests.