So interesting to see Ute fans get in a tizzy when Duckhunter makes a comment
about w/l predictions. They seem to forget all the frustrations they
exhibited with the QB fiascos of Wynn, Hays and Wilson. Ute fans were going
ballistic back then when Hays took the reins and lost I believe 4 in a row yet
he pulled off the miracle and got U to your last bowl game. Then
Whit abandoned him for Wilson who blows it for the next two seasons coming up
short and bowl-less.Droves of Ute fans were calling for Whit's
head about the QB problems, lack of depth, and here just a few weeks ago we
heard about all the new QB talent and in the next breath we heard about
"thinning the herd". So today Ute fans are united against
Duckhunter's commentary and disregarding the real problem with Ute
football, the coaching.Some things never change and seeing this
played out again and again is quite entertaining.I'm betting
another dismal Ute season, bowl-less and frustrated Ute fans leading the charge
demanding pink slips for Whit and company.
As an unbiased reader here I think Duckhunter's guess is going to be a lot
closer than pocyUtes. I am not bagging on the Utes, their schedule is a monster.
The only sure win is Idaho State. The Utes should beat Fresno, Colorado, and
Wazzu. But with as wide open as their offenses are they could get hot and upset
the U. I wouldn't call Arizona, Michigan, and OSU tossups. I think they are
winnable, but the edge is definitely in their favor. Stanford, Oregon, ASU,
UCLA, and USC are almost sure losses. I am thinking 5-7 is probable, but I can
see how they could slide to 4-8 or 3-9 which would be a total disaster for the
Utes. A great season would be 6-6 or 7-5, but I can't see it happening.
With the strength of the Cougars schedule, if they don't go 10-2 or even
11-1, they will be under achievers. A 9-3 season for the Cougs should be
considered an abysmal failure.
@uuWe have no idea how BYU would have fared against utah's
schedule so it is a moot point. we also have no idea how utah would have fared
against BYU's schedule so once again it is a moot point. It is all
conjecture.We do know this, utah failed against their schedule, BYU
succeeded, although modestly, against theirs. And you are wrong when
you say "Because you are the first to jump on a Utah story to
take your digs at the Utes W-L record while completely dismissing the presence
of cupcakes on BYU's schedule"No I'm not. In fact the
only time I ever say anything about either schools schedules is in response to
utah "fans" like yourself. Honestly it is only an issue to utah
"fans" like yourself that are looking for an excuse for your teams
futility the last couple of years. Once again you brought it up, I
didn't, in fact I pointed out that utah's schedule is part of the
reason for their results, I understand it is tough to win against that schedule
and utah has not been up to the task.
Chris BSalt Lake City, UT"Duckhunter,Did you
predict..."No Chris, you are the one who is always
"predicting" and "marking it down." But I do not
recall you predicting the accidental win over Stanford last Fall. So are the
Utes gonna beat Stanford in 2014? Can we "mark it down?"
Duckhunter,You have failed to disprove that BYU plays more cupcakes
every year than Utah. I have given you the evidence for 2013. I can dig up the
proof for 2012 and 2011 if you want but that will just cause further
embarrassment. Just give me the word and I'll show you the cupcakes over
the past 3 years.You have also failed to disprove that Utah's
SOS has been tougher than BYUs 6 of 7 years spanning from 2008 to 2014.Why does any of this matter? Because you are the first to jump on a Utah
story to take your digs at the Utes W-L record while completely dismissing the
presence of cupcakes on BYU's schedule. Just once, it would be refreshing
to see you acknowledge both sides of the coin.I would be interested
to get your take on the six wins BYU would have registered on Utah's 2013
schedule to become bowl eligible. And remember you can't count the Utah
game as one of those wins because BYU can't beat the Utes.
@uuReally you are struggling here, and failing. No BYU's
football schedule is not as tough as utah's, does that make you happy? But
BYU played a very respectable football schedule last year and still qualified
for a bowl game. BYU then played a more than respectable basketball schedule and
still made it to the ncaa tournament.utah played a very tough
football schedule last year and failed to go to a bowl. utah then played one of
the worst schedules in the history of the state in basketball and still failed
to make it to the ncaa tourney. BYU succeeded against good schedules
in both sports, utah failed against a good schedule in one sport and an abysmal
schedule in the other sport. Failure is failure there is no there way to put
it.BYU had nothing to do with this discussion until you brought them
up for some reason, I'm guessing to make yourself feel better. You know
there will always be an excuse, there always is an excuse.
DuckhunterHighland , UT... and yet your mighty Kewgs
can't beat Utah in football or basketball.
@uuAh the desperation has set in. First of all no BYU fans bagged
about BYU's basketball schedule other than as a rebuttal to utah
"fans" whining about their football schedule and how BYU only plays
"cupcakes" to qualify for bowls. Of course that isn't true at all,
BYU played the 38th toughest schedule in the country as you pointed out so they
obviously played far more than "cupcakes". Also here is the
big difference between BYU and utah and football and basketball. BYU still
qualified for a bowl against their "cupcake" schedule while utah did not
qualify for a bowl against their "toughest in the history of the world"
schedule. In basketball BYU still made it to the NCAA tournament, as a 10th seed
to boot, against their tough basketball schedule while utah still failed to make
it to the ncaa tourney against just about the worst OOC sos in the country and a
still fairly low ranked sos overall. Those are stark contrasts in results.
You're into "truth" it appears so let that truth sink in.
@ Duckhunter “What’s your point?”My point is you
are the first to join a Utah thread to talk about out the Utes lack of winning
(or potential winning in 2014), and you have been the first to point out
Utah's lack of bowl games over the past 2 seasons, yet you never represent
the other side of the coin…. which is SOS. BYU’s SOS is
consistently weaker than Utah’s. Including the 2014 season, Utah will
have had a tougher SOS than BYU 6 of the past 7 years. You can't just
ignore that reality when making your analysis. By the way, BYU did
not play the #30 schedule…. It was #38. If BYU had Utah's #3
football schedule they most likely don't go bowling. Please tell me where
BYU would have come up with 6 wins on that #3 schedule?If BYU was so
great in 2013, why couldn’t they beat the Utes on their home field, again?
UUProvo, UTYou can never use facts to convince Ducky of
anything. Since BYU is not aligned with a conference that has various automatic
bowl tie ins, even Mr. Holmoe has stated on many occasions that BYU scheudles
"to qualify for a bowl game."
@ Duckhunter "There really is nothing to brag about for having such a
strong schedule if you cannot win"Yet that's what BYU fans
wanted to brag about during basketball season.... having a tough non-conference
schedule. But you lost to most of the good teams. BYU beat Texas and Stanford,
but lost to Oregon, Utah, Wichita State, UMass and Iowa State. How is that nay
different than Utah fans wanting a little credit in football for the #3 schedule
and beating Stanford, BYU and Utah St. yet losing to Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA,
USC, Arizona and ASU?
DuckhunterHighland , UTWhat matters is what happens on the
field. Like 4 straight and 9 of the last 12.Enjoy Tulsa
Duckhunter,Yes I will acknowledge that Utah qualified for a bowl in
2011 because they had a weaker SOS than they did in 2012 or 13. Yet you still
won't admit that BYU's ticket to bowl games every year is built on the
backs of cupcakes.
@ Duckhunter "Going back over that schedule (BYU) who were the
"cupcakes" on it? There are a couple but utah had a couple as well so as
far as "cupcakes" are concerned it was a wash."Below are
the 5 worst teams on Utah/BYU combined schedules last year. BYU played four of
those teams, Utah played one. If Utah had 3 more cupcakes on the schedule (i.e.
Virginia, MTSU, Nevada) they would have gone bowling too at 8-4.98
Nevada103 MTSU106 Virginia228 Weber State229 Idaho State
@pocyOptimism is a fan trait and I can't fault any fan for
being optimistc. chris b type delusion is something else altogether and I think
that is what most utah fans suffered from for these first few pac12 seasons.
There were plenty on here predicting rose bowls and even an undefeated season
before the 2nd pac12 season. But cautious optimism is a good thing and I see no
reason why utah fans shouldn't be cautiously optimistic, if not why even be
a fan?But I'm not going to tell you what to think, nor am I
going to demand "a new level of honesty" from utah fan based on reality
like uu just ried to do with BYU fans. The fact is that it really doesn't
matter what he thinks or I think, what matters is what the voters think and
I'm pretty sure they don't care if BYU plays the 30th ranked schedule
and utah plays the 3rd, or for that matter if BYU plays the 70th. That sort of
thing only matters to fans trying to justify their own deficiencies and how they
stack up to their rivals.
@UUWhat's your point? BYU played a good schedule last year,
better than the schedules of most of the "bcs" teams. Going back over
that schedule who were the "cupcakes" on it? There are a couple but utah
had a couple as well so as far as "cupcakes" are concerned it was a
wash.BYU's schedule this season is not as good as last season
but it improves again after that so we'll just have to see but the truth is
they are good enough schedules to accomplish what needs to be accomplished
provided they win.There really is nothing to brag about for having
such a strong schedule if you cannot win, that is the dishonesty I see in utah
fans. They want to brag and whine about the schedule all at the same time. The
pac12 is strong this year but it will be down again at some point, that is just
the way it works, and when it is down utah's schedule will be much weaker,
just like it was the first year utah was in the pac12. Will you aknowledge that
schedule is the reason utah qualified for a bowl that year?
Thanks DuckI think this team is REALLY difficult to handicap. On
paper, they should be improved at every position group, and last year they were
very close to getting over the hump, but they were also very close to losing to
Stanford, and Colorado was waaay to close, which would put them at a whopping 3
win season.It reminds me of Karl Malone crying for respect when the
Jazz couldn't get higher than a 4 or 5 see in the conference, or out of the
2nd round of the playoffs. Ultimate, Utah has to start winning. The players
know it, the coaches know it, and ultimately the fans know it too.I'm excited, but nervous about this season.
Chris,Duckhubter is right. We can't count on another Stanford
win in '14. For every Stanford win there's a Washington State type
loss. The Utes are probably looking at another 4-8 to 6-6 type season. It's evident that Utah fans underestimated the high talent/coaching
level in the PAC12. When Utah was in the MWC, there was a long stretch where
the Utes were winning 70% of their games against P12 opponents. However playing
one or two PAC12 games per year is very different than playing nine.So we're seeing a new level of honesty and acknowledgment from Utah fans
about the realities of the PAC12. What we have not seen from BYU fans is
acknowledgment of the extremely weak SOS they play on an annual basis which
guarantees a bowl. I would not be surprised if BYU's SOS next season is in
the 70 range (Utah will be top 3). Even during years when BYU's SOS is
decent (like ’13), there are still enough cupcakes on the schedule to all
but guarantee a bowl invite. Would be refreshing to see some SOS honesty coming
from those Y fans that love to visit the Utah threads.
Both pocyUte and Duck have valid points here. I like the probable
wins that pocyUte listed. ISU, Fresno St., Wazzu and Colorado are winnable. Utah
plays Wazzu early and at home this year, rather than late and on the road after
injuries took its toll. The probable losses look more than likely,
unless the Utes' defense or offense is better than advertised, or Utah
comes out and executes a great and unexpected game plan, like they did against
Stanford. The difference comes in the toss-up category, which I put
Arizona in. Rich Rod always seems to pull a rabbit out of his hat, so nothing
probable there. I'm almost tempted to put the USC game in the probable loss
category, because until Utah actually beats USC in a PAC game, I'm going to
assume they can't. Utah also haven't been road warriors by
any stretch of the imagination, which makes the Michigan and OSU game sketchy as
well. I'm hoping Utah will be able to turn the corner this
year, and that Gionni, another Miami boy, will be back for the start of the
season. Go Utes!!
Duckhunter,Your the critic that Whit is tuning out.As a Utah fan
it's exciting to know that if the Utes barely qualify, they'll be in a
better bowl than a 10 win byu team.
@chrisYou remember they then lost to wsu? You can't just assume
they are going to beat a vastly superior team like stanford without also
assuming they will lose to a team like wsu. Those are a wash although your
delusion is interesting.@pocyThat is well reasoned
although I don't see it happening. As christina pointed out the stanford
upset occured but they also managed to lose to teams like colorado, cal, and wsu
each year and that happens because in the pac12 even teams like those have
talent and can win on occasion just based on having good athletes.I
see ISU as the only guranteed win, I think they'll beat fresno as well
although I don't think it is a guaranty, I think they'll beat colorado
and they should beat wsu. Outside of those they might upset oregon st although
that is on the road, and I give them an outside chance at arizona. Beyond those I don't think they have much of a chance at winning any of
them and I don't see anything outside of isu as a guanteed win. Good luck
though, you're a good fan.
DuckReasonable question, and admittedly, it really comes down to QB
play.Probable Wins: ISU, Fresno St (I think they take a big step
back with Carr graduating, and it is in Utah), Colorado, Wazzu (home game),
Arizona (Kadeem Carey is gone).Probable Losses: Stanford, Oregon,
ASU, UCLA Toss ups: -USC: at home, USC will now feel the
effects of the sanctions. They lose 16 seniors and 5 underclassmen. I think
Utah will win this game, but, it is still USC and the players they will still
have will be talented.-Michigan: Yes they are Michigan, but under Hoke,
they've been very inconsistent. On the road, Michigan gets the nod, but I
think Utah has a reasonable shot at them.-Oregon St: Mannion is back, and
is a stud, but they lose Woods their best receiver, and Crichton their best
defender. If there is a Pac-12 road win outside of Colorado, it's OSU.If they get one of the toss-ups, they are bowl eligible, and I will take
them in their bowl game, there is 7 wins, 2 is 8.That being said,
the margin of error is razor thin
Duckhunter,Did you predict a Utah win over STanford last year?Did you predict a byu loss to Virginia, a team that didn't beat a
single other division 1 team all year?Utah will have at least one
"Stanford" win next year, and likely 2. Offense is much improved.Although I do worry not having the gimme win over byu like we usually
@pocyNot trying to be argumentative here but I am interested in what
7-8 games it is you think utah will win? Trying to be as unbiased as I can be I
am coming up with 4 probable and 2 more maybe's, and to be fair 2 of the
probables are closer to tossups. Even giving utah the benefit of the doubt
I'm coming up with maybe 5 wins although I think 4 is more likely.
Want to know when a player or coach is being less than truthful? When they say
they don't listen to their critics.
WorfYou are exactly right.Both get too much praise in
the good, and criticism in the bad.ESPN was 100% right when they
pointed out the uptick in competition and talent to Pac-12 was bigger than most
Utah fans expected. To me, the difference is in the fact that every team has
higher caliber athletes. There are no New Mexico, Wyoming, UNLV, teams which,
because of talent, truly have almost no chance of beating teams like Utah, BYU
or TCU when they were all in the MWC. That doesn't mean every team in the
Pac-12 is good, it just means that every team in the Pac-12 has much better
talent than those teams.Utah will take a big step forward this year,
I think they are poised for 7-8 wins, and will be bowling this year. Certainly
the schedule is tough, but it appears that they are getting the outside speed
they need to hang. Go Utes.
coaches and quarterbacks take the criticisms
It's an informative blog about the Utes and their coach. The DN's
choice for the headline doesn't surprise me. At least he didn't quote
"The level of criticism usually matches the level of education." lol.
Best line of the ESPN blog..."fans blame Whittingham for not making the
transition TO THE BIG LEAGUES a little less bumpy"...So much for
them little brother comments....cha cha
"The chaos behind center" could continue despite having a deeper pool of
potential at QB this season. The reason could end up being Whittingham's
decision to go with another injury prone quarterback in Wilson, just like he did
with Jordan Wynn (4 shoulder surgeries worth). Giving Wilson the first string
reps will take away needed experience for the inexperienced talent behind him.
And if it ends up being that the intercranial issue pops up, then Utah will lose
big in the fall again. And as much as I like Whittingham, not picking or
recruiting the right QB should cost him his job.
@Down under, "Too bad he is tuning out the people that buy season
tickets". Please share details to support your claim.
Can't decide which is sillier, the fact that ESPN thinks it's news
when a coach says he's tuning out his critics and working on what he can
control (that's coachspeak 101, repeated by every coach, every year),
or...the commentor to the ESPN article who thought Whit was informed
of his lack of depth at the QB by disgruntled fans...yeah, I'm sure he had
no idea before that...other than Norm Chow (and his predecessor) mentioning it a
thousand times (and Chow going out and doing something about it).Whit is fine...he will have to pick a horse in the QB derby fairly early on in
fall camp. Giving too many QBs first teama reps just heightens the risk that no
one will be fully ready once the season begins.
Too bad he is tuning out the people that buy season tickets. I can think of no
better way endear yourself to the fans. Nice work whit.I guess the pac
has not been very friendly to the utes. The pac should show more respect to the