Who didn't think this year was going to be a painful one? As dhsalum says,
the best option was to let Al and Paul go, let the young guys play, take your
lumps, and hope for an A+ draft. Frankly, I think this year went pretty well
considering. The Jazz were bad but not embarassingly, historically bad.
They'll still get one of the first picks in a (supposedly) great draft,
plus another later in the first round.What some of you are missing
is this: Al and Paul are not "bad" players. They are very good players,
and would've been the best Jazz players this year. I'm sure Atlanta
and Charlotte are happy to have them. But, they aren't viable options as
first or second bananas on championship-calibre teams. If the goal is to build a
contender, letting them walk was the only reasonable choice.Sometimes letting your best guy go is the best option. I'm in St. Louis.
As great as Pujols was for a long time, very few people here regret that the
Cardinals didn't outbid the Angels for his services.
I saw something I was excited about this year, and for some odd reason, few
people see it with me, I saw the rising of a player that looks like if put in
the role could be that "STAR PLAYER" or that "GO TO GUY" I saw a
man named Alec Burks strap it on, and go on a frenzy, never btchng about not
starting, never complaining about anything, doing what he was asked to do, while
being looked over the entire time, I saw nothing!!! special about Gordon
Heyward, when put up to the amount of hype the SLC media seems to love to give
him, and I also saw a monster, who could actually run, but really only needs to
stand there and stick his arms in the air, to sway the direction of a
game,incredibly raw, and needed as much NBA time as he could get, to learn the
speed of a game, and get a feel for it, experience in games that don't mean
anything, well he had that chance, but the coach never gave it him, Why
didn't we just keep Jefferson and Milsap?
@Jim1027, Seriously? C'mon man, you sound as if we were the
Celtics/Lakers of the 70-80-90's winning championships. The Jazz are the
only game in town, and I've watched every game, good bad or ugly, for the
last 30 years. This change / rebuild takes time, sometimes you get lucky with a
few gems, sometimes not. We got lucky with John and Karl for 20 years, and
almost got it done, but ran into Jordan's Bulls, and that was that. What
with the new CBA and raised luxury tax ceiling, it will make it harder for small
market teams to compete. Thus the draft, best way to grab a potential star....
the hard part in Utah is holding on to them. There are a lot of moving parts
that are difficult to fit together for the Jazz to be a playoff bound
team-Championship team. Patience is needed in great quantity.
Funny how I see so many negative fan comments but as soon as a writer says what
fans have been saying, those same fans flip out. I think Doug is
mostly right but I also think that with the right coaching, these young guys
will blossom. I love Corbin and I hate to see him go but it was time. If
we'd finished as strong as we played mid-season and we'd seen some
real growth out of the young core, Corbin would still be here.
@RationalYou're not being very .. well, rational. Dennis
Lindsey stated before the season started that this year was about Development,
Defense, and Discipline. Corbin knew what the objectives were. He
didn't develop the young guys by playing a 33 year old Richard Jefferson
(who won't be back with the team) over 2000 min. He obviously failed at
developing a strong defensive team if we finished ranked 30th out of 30 teams.
It's frankly shocking that the Jazz would slip to 30th after being 21st in
defense last year with supposedly poor defensive players on the team.
@AltaHawkFanIf Corbin wasn't following their directions, the
Jazz could've fired him at any time. First game, 81st game. Even so, you
can't tell people to do something and not reward them for it. If they
wanted him to follow directions -- and I reject the premise that he didn't
-- then they should've given him another year on his contract. Swallowing
an extra year would've been smarter than this Satyr of a season, in for
which management is making Corbin the goat.
"It's the end of the Jazz as we know them, I feel fine."
WHAT WAS THAT?exactly what teh front office was trying to do except
they won 2 or 3 more games than they were hoping. hopefully we move up in the
lottery so we could land a Wiggins or Jabari. This was the goal from the
beginning. Why even write this article Doug? Were you thinking they going to
be better? they were picked as the bottom 3-4 teams from the beginning. We got
what we thought we would. I would take the #4 pick in the draft over the #14
pick any day. we lived through a tough six months and now hopefully this bad
year pays off.
Tyrone Corbin was not fired. He didn't get another contract. The two
things are not synonymous. Management indicated he'd be judged
based on defense, and so it was. Last place in any circumstance should net
coaching change. Especially when that is the one thing that ought to have been
his priority based what he was told preseason.Corbin should have
been made the interim coach when Sloan & Jackson quit mid-season, There is
a reason every other organization does just that. The interim status would have
allowed us to interview him, along with myriad other coaches. Found their guy,
instead they gave Corbin a contract, and they honored it. Corbin
made some of the oddest coaching decisions ever. He keyed on vets too much, too
often given the vets we had at the time. The offense consisted solely of
dropping the ball down to Jefferson and waiting on him finally shoot. It was
boring, it was unbalanced. He is not a good coach, or at least he is not a good
development coach. That is what we need. With the draft pick we need that more
than last year! Solid non extend! Good work!
I like the article. I still say this team can win. all they need is a coach
@RationalYou're not correct. Jazz management did give Corbin
those goals, and Corbin chose not to follow their direction. That is why Corbin
is now looking for a job.
I misspoke. Losing the last game the Jazz would still have picked 4th, but
would've had more lottery balls. The thing is, the season was
WASTED -- as have been the last 3 under Corbin;1- He didn't
play the youngsters until he absolutely had to (this year, when he
should've been playing them the last 3), and then still didn't play
several of them. 2- The team didn't develop defensively,
individual or collectively. 3- The team didn't even lose well
enough to win a better spot in the lottery -- as they might have if they'd
done 1. 1 and 3 are on mamagemt. If they would've given Ty
clear goals (1 and 2), and some job security, then maybe he would've
accomplished all 3. Otherwise, he wasn't coaching for the Jazz, he was in
it for himself and auditioning for his next job and trying to win games.
Can't blame a competitor for that, when Managememt didn't give him any
And guys like Kobe(13th) Dirk(10th) and Pierce(9th) are the exception, not the
rule. And those teams did not contend for a long until other stars were added as
free agents or trades that the player specifically approved (Gasol, Garnett and
Ray Allen). Even if you like Corbin and don't like Favors and Hayward, etc.
keeping Millsap and Big Al to float in meciocrity was not the answer. The Jazz
tried that and it didn't work.
I would add that coaching and the system a coach brings is everything. How many
Jazz players struggled with Jerry Sloan and went elsewhere and flourished.
Deron Williams himself has said he did much better in Sloan's system than
what he does now. I hope the Jazz can find someone who can utilize the
strengths of the players they have - a coach can, and should unify be able to a
team, as another commenter noted.
The team was virtually un-watchable, even on tv. Perhaps the Millers can work
out a deal where tv viewers would get a credit on their cable bill every time
@Jazz SourceI've given up on Brahmabull et al who don't
understand that paying Millsap and Big Al $25 million per year to almost make
the playoffs is the worst option as an NBA fan (maybe second worst behind the
team being sold and moved). Small market teams (and especially the
Jazz) HAVE TO build through the draft. And you can't build a contender
picking in the 12-16 range even if you pick the best option at that spot every
single year. Not every draft has superstars and some really good players are
selected outside the lottery. But, in general, there are very few stars outside
the top 3-4 picks. Look at the serious contenders of the last couple
years--Obviously the Heat with LeBron and Spurs with Duncan both 1st overall.
Thunder were built completely on top 5 picks. Durant(2nd), Westbrook(4th) and
everything they got in return for Harden(3rd) and Jeff Green(5th). They key is
getting the one or two stars then adding Parker, Splitter and Leonard or Ibaka
(picked earlier I know but took 4-5 years to develop), Reggie Jackson and Steven
Jazz SourceNo, you are wrong. Millsap has excelled despite the hawks
being without Al Horford. The bobcats went from cellar dwellers to playoff team.
It isn't coincidence. Al Jefferson isn't the best defender, but do you
think Faviors and Kanter are? Exactly. Al Jefferson at least had something to
offer on offense. They are good players, and had they had a decent supporting
cast they would have been very good - but they didn't.
Everyone, including the author of this article as I recall, wanted the Jazz to
"play the young players." Good news is that the young players got a lot
better with those extended minutes. Bad news is that they lost a lot of games
doing it. The consolation prize is the Jazz are in a position to get a potential
franchise player through the draft, and they still have other assets to acquire
the veterans needed to make a contending team.Ty will make a great
Head Coach one day, but this just wasn't his time. Putting the third
ranking coach in charge of the team less than 24 hours after the top two coaches
quit was ill-advised and it showed. If Ty can learn to create a defensive
culture, he'll be great. That is the biggest thing that has been lacking
and getting worse during his tenure. Ultimately that is why the team
underperformed not just this year, but throughout Ty's time as the Head
Coach.I think Dennis is making the right moves and has the
confidence of Jazz ownership.
Wait. The whole starting five are high draft picks and the reason to lose was
another high draft pick? Something is wrong here. There is still a story to be
told. Hayward doesn't sign an extension was the first clue. Another season
like the last one and they will have to reduce ticket prices even further.
SOMEONE has to step up or they need to shuffle the deck. Did anyone doubt that
Hornacek would be a head coach in the NBA? This group has always been slow to
pull the trigger. In some cases that trait worked out but lately it has been
just the opposite.
@ttysn The Jazz didn't pass on Lillard. He was picked 5th and the Jazz
picked.... 47th. Their first rounder went to Minny for Al Jefferson and the
Warriors tanked the last two months to keep their pick. They had no chance to
@BrahmaBull and BosskI'm sorry but if you guys can't see
the obvious...I don't know what else to say other than you are wrong.Millsap? His new team finishes the season 6 games under .500... a
losing record and that is with the supposed best 3 point shooter in the league
on his team. You know what they say about players putting up stats on LOSING
teams. Its irrelevant.Jefferson? Career defensive doormat. Also a
very weak team that barely scraped at .500.Both exactly what they
delivered here last season except they missed the playoffs.Mo
Williams? He is not even talented enough to start ahead of a 2nd year
player.These guys are role players and NOT stars. Sure you put role
players on bad teams and they suddenly look better. Atlanta w losing record in
a very weak E conference proves that.Very myopic analysis.Those supporting Ty? Seriously? The worst defense in the league and showed
no improvement. Forget W/L just show some progress through season but his team
didn't.Lindsey is making the proper moves so far. I am tired
of the previous mediocrity.
re: Andy You don't look very smart making that argument. Jefferson and
Millsap were not the problem. The Jazz guards were among the worst in the
league last year.It was the right move to let Corbin go. While he
was given a young, inexperienced team, there were no expectations set on how
much he had to win. His job this year was just to develop the young players and
to establish a good defensive team. He failed on both counts. The Jazz
finished 30th out of 30 teams on defense. (The Jazz were 21st last year.) That
is why he was let go.
The Jazz will pick 4th -- or worse. Lose the last game and they'd have
picked as high as 3rd, and landed a sure difference maker. They couldn't
even lose right.
It doesn't matter who the coach is, the Jazz can and will only be so good
with the players they have and continue to bring in. I think something that
Utah-in all of its ignorance, needs to understand that the Utah Jazz is a
marginal basketball team. The ONLY way to build a legitimate contender is to
have elite players. Unfortunately, no star player wants to play here. The one
that I know for sure would have loved to play here (Lillard), they passed on.
The ones they've had, they let go of. So, if that's how the
organization is going to operate, then they (and fans) shouldn't have goals
and expectations they can't meet. A realistic goal would be making the
playoffs. Even that requires above average players. I guess my point is it that
coaches are too often the scapegoat. The issue is the players and the people who
Doug is right that Corbin had a tough row to hoe, but he is dead wrong in that
Corbin hoed it with any competence. His tenure has been fraught with one
mistake after another: poor rotations, misuse of players, lack of in-game
development for the young guys, and inability to motivate or provide leadership.
C'mon, Doug, were you watching the same team I was?
And for those that say Ty was set up to fail, you maybe have an argument for
this year. But what about last year, when we had the amazing players Millsap,
Jefferson and Mo Williams? That's right, he failed to make the playoffs.
Corbin's fate was sealed before the season started, and the only reason
they kept him was because they knew they were already going to be terrible and
didn't want to have the reputation of firing a coach.BTW,
Corbin was NOT fired, he just wasn't renewed. There is a distinction, and
it's kind of a big one. Probably should have made that clear in the
I came on here expecting to see outrage at this article, and am frankly baffled
by most of the responses so far. Have you guys not paid ANY attention to the
Jazz the last couple of years? It was obvious that we weren't going to be
good this year---and that's what we wanted. The season was hugely
successful because we are in the position to grab a true difference maker.
Let's not forget that OKC was terrible not too long ago, but they did the
same thing the Jazz just did: got rid of everybody who wasn't a part of the
future and suffered through some terrible seasons. It's the only way to be
successful as a small market team in the NBA. You have to have a great player,
and Jefferson and Millsap we're not great.
Doug's glass is half empty. You can't look at the success that former
Jazz players are having in the Eastern Conference. If the Jazz teams lead by
Jefferson and Milsap were in the Eastern Conference, we would have been payoff
regulars. But that isn't the case out west. I do agree with
Doug that Ty was set up to fail. It is not his fault we had such a rough
season. But that doesn't mean that he is the right guy to take us to the
Yes, I think the blame lies squarely on Lindsey's shoulders. He let go of
two veteran big men (one hard worker and one who couldn't spell defense)
who were never going to lead us beyond the first round. Terrible move! He let Mo
Williams walk after an absolutely "stellar" season. Horrible move! He
traded up in the draft for a point guard that most people rated as the best PG
in the draft. What a shortsighted thing to do! And of course no one in the
league had to deal with a tough coaching situation and still came out on top
(other than, say, Jeff Hornacek).I am tired of all of these stories
and comments that paint Ty Corbin as a sacrificial lamb. Yes, he had a tough
job. But he's has a "tough job" every year for four years. Lack of
unity? That falls squarely on the coach. Lack of defense? Coach. Nonsensical
rotations so much of the time? Coach as well. And spending 4,000 minutes of
precious development time on Jefferson and Williams and not starting the future
four together until the 79th game? Coach's responsibility. Ty tried, but he
AndyAre you not aware that Jefferson has led the bobcats to the
playoffs, and Millsap has done the same for the hawks, despite the injury to
Horford. Those 2 guys are excellent players. It wasn't them that was the
weak link for the jazz, it was their surrounding cast.
I think Doug hit a home run with his article! The blame for the Jazz season lies
squarely on Dennis Lindsey! Every one knew last year that Ty was the
sacrificial lamb but no one said it out loud. Ty didn't cause he's a
loyal honorable man! Lindsey kept him around to satisfy the Miller family. You
guys calling Ty incapable are the same guys or sons of the same guys who wanted
Jerry fired for the first 10 years of his stay. That's why he lived out of
a suitcase the first five years as coach. Show me a young coach who had to deal
with the type of weird seasons and succeeded!!!
Hey Doug,The sky isn't falling. That full circle you are referring to
includes a couple of trips to the finals and a lot of great seasons. The jazz
brass are going about rebuilding the team. They said this before the year began.
Slow news day?
I think the players have talent, but they don't play as a team; they are
not unified. If these young players can forget about minutes and personal
statistics (can I mention their paycheck?) and focus on being a team
contributor, their success will become more evident. They've shown in a
few games this year they can do it. But the consistency is missing. It's
execution every possession on offense & defense the entire game. Everyone
needs to be an active participant - just like the 1980 US Olympic Men's
Hockey team. They were young and inexperienced, but they learned to be a team
and they were disciplined.
Lame. This article is nothing. Particularly Jefferson or even
Millsap are fool's gold. Neither could deliver in the Western Conference.
Both made the playoffs in the east - with .500 or under records - on terrible
teams. The Jazz were condemned to the same fate if they rode those horses.
They had the guts to cut bait instead of keep fishing. Good for them.Of course Mr. Robinson knows this, but he has to write about something.