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Supreme Court upholds Michigan's affirmative action ban for college admissions

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  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 24, 2014 2:15 p.m.

    @Brio
    "and other affirmative action advocates are indicating you think Blacks are still incapable of succeeding on their own without special help from the government."

    No. The issue is inequality of opportunity. Institutionally, there are disadvantages built in. Someone with a "black sounding name" has lower chances of getting callbacks for interviews than the equivalent job application with a "white sounding name". Some school districts are much better off than others, disproportionately with heavily minority schools being at the disadvantaged schools. The issue is how to address these problems, and these affirmative action measures are a means of trying to counter that inequality of opportunity.

    Personally though, I don't really think that's the best way to go (so I'm not arguing for affirmative action, just explaining what the argument for it is based on); I'd rather we just resolve things at the source (through things like lifting up the schools with less resources).

  • Anti Government Alpine, UT
    April 24, 2014 10:48 a.m.

    @GaryO

    You won't hear me defending racism or reverse affirmative action against Asians.

    If they are more qualified then deserve to get in ahead of those who are not or are scoring lower on entrance exams. Period.

    Plenty of whites are getting lazy and entitled. Other people/races are coming from places with far less opportunity and appreciate what they can get here.

    Too bad our own government encourages laziness and dependency but you will never hear me say people should be rewarded from doing so. Earn your way or move out of the way I say.

    Same with college admissions. If you are not qualified to be there then how fair is that to someone who is most certainly qualified if the unqualified took their spot?

    You bring up these other exceptions as to how others get admitted which are not race related. The topic is getting admitted based on race. Other admissions should be evaluated on their own merits and dealt with accordingly.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 23, 2014 8:00 p.m.

    Hey SC Fantasy -

    When GW applied for Harvard Business School in 1975, his Daddy was the chairman of the National Republican Party.

    And GW got good grades at Harvard? See? What did I tell you? It's nothing short of a miracle what an influential Father can do.

    Comparing the intellet of GW to Obama is silly. Obama can actually think and speak coherently.

    GW can't even pronounce "Nuclear."

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    April 23, 2014 4:18 p.m.

    Gary O

    When Bush records from Harvard came out, his grades for his MBA were not bad. In fact better than the grades Gore had in college. And I sure would like to see the Obama grades from Columbia and Harvard. I wonder why they are kept secret. Don't you?

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    April 23, 2014 11:27 a.m.

    @ RivertoCougar
    You wrote:
    "Are Harvard, Stanford, UC-Berkley, etc. conservative institutions, or are they more liberal? You bet they are die-hard liberal!"

    You are absolutely correct. In order to be a Liberal you need to have a broad mind and vast knowledge of various perspectives on the same issue. The more you study and think the more liberal you become.

    Judge Sotomayor demonstrated once again her fortitude and sense of social justice dissenting on this vote. Social enequality because of race still exists in this country. Universities do themselves a favor and a service to the country when they identifiy minority individuals who have the potential to succeed in academia and give them a chance.

    Judge Sotomayor called Judge Roberts' statement “the way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” too simplistic. I think she is right.

  • Brio Alpine, UT
    April 23, 2014 10:35 a.m.

    @ GaryO:

    Of course there are millions of examples... just as I mentioned in my previous comment. They happen all the time throughout the business world and in most other facets of life. Money equates to power. Simple concept. But you actually did handpick a few examples in trying to prove a biased agenda. Of course Whites examples are more prevalent since Caucasians still make up a substantial majority of American society.

    You, Happy Valley Heretic and other affirmative action advocates are indicating you think Blacks are still incapable of succeeding on their own without special help from the government. It's actually that kind of society attitude that is holding back more Black success. It makes Blacks appear to somehow be inferior to others when most of us know that isn't true. And since race laws are already in place to eliminate any legal discrimination, making Blacks think and feel they can't compete on an equal playing field proliferates an inferiority syndrome and racial inferiority complexes.

    You might have good intentions, but it's actually backfiring. It's also the reason that even though laws have been in place for over 50 years, progress is still slow.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    April 23, 2014 9:57 a.m.

    Gary O you are correct, and as usual bumper sticker answers to complicated situations, by conservatives on the bench and in these comments. The legacy part is huge, not an exception.

    ...I suspect those in favor of this ruling are the most picked on group in America "White middle class men" at least that's what I've been told by them.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    April 23, 2014 9:50 a.m.

    I agree with Sotomayor's arguments.
    Ignoring racial differences, culturally and historically isn't helpful either.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    April 23, 2014 9:40 a.m.

    My comment was approved, but it is not posted?

    It is high time we take the next step towards equality, by respecting people enough to allow them to get admitted to college based on what they have done to qualify to go, not based on the color of their skin.

    238 years after the Declaration of Independence, we still haven't enacted laws which treat all men/women as equal, giving them equal opportunity. Affirmative Action is now a barrier to equality.

    Germany tore down it's wall in 1986. Now it is our turn. The Affirmative Action wall needs to be torn down!

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 23, 2014 9:40 a.m.

    Brio –

    “Handpicking a few exception examples?” There are MILLIONS of such examples.

    Racial Preference in favor of Caucasians is not the exception. It’s the rule. And as you say, “that’s just the way it is.” Being Caucasian myself, I’m not all that uncomfortable with the idea, but I do have a sense of fairness, and that does make me feel uncomfortable about the situation.

    If Mitt Romney was born Black in inner-city Detroit, do you really think he would have attained success in the business world? Don’t you think his father’s network of social, political, and business contacts might have a little something to do with his acceptance into Harvard and his position within the business world?

    Chris B – You can call government-sponsored Affirmative Action racism, if you want, but it’s the kind that attempts to balance racism in the other direction. Have you ever heard of fighting fire with fire?

    Most Whites (especially “Conservatives”) don’t want to know that Asians are ROUTINELY denied access to colleges in favor of less-qualified Whites. It’s called DENIAL.

  • Brio Alpine, UT
    April 23, 2014 9:17 a.m.

    @ GaryO:

    Handpicking a few exception examples means absolutely nothing of substance, except that perhaps your liberal bias is alive and well when you try to apply it to one political ideology .

    Big college money contributers have helped to get their offspring into their colleges of choice since day one, and it has absolutely nothing to do with racism and it's certainly not another form of affirmative action. Your comment is so far out in left field in multiple ways that I'm truly surprised the comment monitors allowed it.

    But since they did allow it, let me explain it to you. It's all about the power of money. It's been used and continues to be used every year by Liberals, Conservatives, Libertarians, Whites, Blacks and Asians. It's about needed money to keep the schools operating. It's the "you help take care of us and we'll help take care of you (via your offspring)' philosophy. Not hard to understand. Its use is not limited to college entrants. It's also used in business transactions all over the world. It's certainly not new nor is it news worthy. It's simply how the world operates.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 23, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    There's another kind of affirmative action that benefits primarily wealthy white people. "Legacy admissions" allow offspring of high-contributing alumni easy access to Ivy league and other elite schools.

    The Great "Conservative" President GW Bush benefited from his legacy status. His grades from high school and test scores weren't good. No Problem! His Daddy was a distinguished, rich, and powerful alumnus. GW had NO trouble getting accepted to Yale.

    George W Bush benefited from Affirmative Action, and I am reasonably sure that Obama did too.

    On the other hand, Clinton was all Clinton, an overachieving nerd, who earned everything got.

    But many of this nation's most powerful people benefited from Affirmative Action in the form of legacy admissions to elite schools. If Daddy gives a couple of million to his old alma mater, do you think Junior is going to have trouble being accepted?

    I think it's a little too early to give up on affirmative action for Blacks, given the fact that Whites still benefit so much from it.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    April 23, 2014 8:04 a.m.

    @southmtnman - Provo, UT - Why turn this into a "bash liberals" thing?..."

    Nobody is trying to "bash" liberals.

    But we sure as heck are pointing the blame at those who deserve to take it: liberals.

    - Would you want a sub-standard doctor operating on you or your child?
    - Would you want a sub-standard lawyer representing you in court?
    - Would you want a sub-standard architect or engineer designing your home?
    - How about a sub-standard airline pilot flying you home for Thanksgiving?

    Liberals will scream "We don't want that!" but the REALITY of racial quotas for colleges and jobs is that those kinds of things DID occur and still occur because those who didn't measure up were allowed to enter schools/training programs and graduate anyway.

    And yet, apparently, liberals are still screaming for more bias and sub-standard quality to exist.

    Dont' like being called out? Change your behavior.

  • Jamescmeyer Midwest City, USA, OK
    April 23, 2014 7:27 a.m.

    I don't know why this is even a thing. Don't discriminate between people-for or against them-on the basis of race. It's easy. If fewer XXXX people than YYYY people go to college, keeping YYYY people out or drawing underqualified XXXX people in to maintain some arbitrary quota does nothing. There are plenty of YYYYs coming from less-off families who need the help and there are plenty of XXXXs coming from well-off families who don't need it.

    If YYYY people become the minority, that doesn't change anything.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    April 23, 2014 6:59 a.m.

    Gary O

    I'm about as far right as you are far left, and yes I agree, if Asians are doing the best they should get into the elite colleges. I don't care if an entire class is all Asian, or white, or black, or female, or......... As long as they were the most qualified, they should get in. Race should have nothing to do with it. Affimative action has been legalized racism and should have been unconstitutional from the beginning. However liberals don't respect the constitution when it gets in the way of their agenda. Hopefully this Michigan decision will become a 50 state policy. There, what do you think of that?

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    April 22, 2014 10:30 p.m.

    GaryO, I completely agree with your arguments that the Asians should have gotten in over the whites if they were more qualified. When race becomes a determining factor, racism is at hand.

    However, it is completely silly to suggest it is conservatives who are the ones perpetuating the racism of affirmative action. After all, you quotes a Harvard study, and they talk about the top colleges accepting whites over more-qualified Asians. Are Harvard, Stanford, UC-Berkley, etc. conservative institutions, or are they more liberal? You bet they are die-hard liberal!

    Screwdriver, I don't care if it's 99% black and 1% white, I don't think I should automatically be given a job over far better qualified blacks simply because of my race. It would be nice to land the job, but it's not right. In a way, it's a slap in the face. It's like saying you need the color of your skin to make up for your lack in other areas. If I make it into a prestigious college I want it to be because I earned it, not because I was pitied.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 22, 2014 10:11 p.m.

    gary,

    And yet isn't it interesting I've never heard a white person defend the racism against Asians when a white is given preferential treatment over an Asian - and in fact if its true it something most of us don't know exists. If it does - I'm against is as I'm against racism.

    I could use excuses like "I just want equal opportunity as the Asians" or "the system is built to discriminate against whites and help Asians" but I wont use those - again - as I'm against racism.

    I'm glad we don't hear those poor and inexcusable excuses from the white population to justify racism. All my white friends and myself are against racism.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    April 22, 2014 8:24 p.m.

    You may not want to have reversed that since white people will be a minority very soon. But have it your way. Don't complain when the Chinese owned company your grandchildren want a job with only hires Asians.

    Affirmative action was never anything more than striving to have a population of a college or employer be the same as the demographics of the population.

    70% white population = 70% students were white. 12% black population = 12% students were black.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    April 22, 2014 8:09 p.m.

    According to the Harvard Law review . . . " it has long been documented that Asian-Americans need higher SAT scores than their white counterparts to get into top colleges. One study even suggested that on the old 1600-point SAT scale, “Asian-Americans needed SAT scores that were about 140 points higher than white students, all other quantifiable variables being equal, to get into elite schools.”

    It's really too bad that underqualified Whites consistently displace much more qualified Asians at top colleges, don't you think?

    Anti-government - Why should "academically unqualfied" white students weasel their way in to top colleges, when they are completely undeserving?

    Chris B - " . . . its racist to discriminate against whites for being white in favor of blacks."

    And it's just as racist to discriminate against Asians in favor of undeserving Whites.

    It's not complicated Conservatives.

    "Racism is racism."

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 22, 2014 7:12 p.m.

    Hutterite,

    Do you agree that affirmative action is racism?

    Are you against affirmative action? Just curious

    Or did you just want to spin this into gay marriage, even though its not relevant to the story

  • southmtnman Provo, UT
    April 22, 2014 5:33 p.m.

    Why turn this into a "bash liberals" thing?

    Are we as conservatives that insecure and desperate?

    Argue the merits of affirmative action or not, but don't stoop to such partisan labels and simple-minded bashing, please.

  • Anti Government Alpine, UT
    April 22, 2014 3:32 p.m.

    "The decision is a setback for diversity advocates"

    Translation? This is a setback for academically less qualified students.

    Its about time.

    Fascinating the definitions liberals come up with to suit their political agendas. Reverse racism is A-OK as long as they believe they can buy a vote with it.

    I sure hope minorities soon realize they are the unfortunate political pawns of liberals. Fact check dot org even says poverty has worsened under the obama administration. How could that be you ask? They lined up in droves to vote for the man because he was their savior yet they are all worse off.

    I sincerely hope these people realize that lining up for supposed political "gifts" and "freebies" just further enslaves them.

    Allowing someone into a university when they are less qualified is the same thing is hiring someone less competent to do a job. The business and/or the university don't benefit from lowering the bar.

    Diversity is nothing but a politically correct way that democrats buy political votes and ultimately destroy our society. You are not strengthened as a nation by adopting ideologies from countries these people are scrambling to get away from. Duh.

  • Mainly Me Werribee, 00
    April 22, 2014 2:51 p.m.

    It's about time that some common sense crept back into the courts.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    April 22, 2014 2:51 p.m.

    As noted in previous posts, racism is racism, discrimination is discrimination, and we are each a minority of one, with inalienable rights. This bodes well for same sex marriage.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 22, 2014 2:17 p.m.

    Re: "Yes, Dr. King would be proud indeed!"

    And, he'll be just as proud when the Supreme Court, perhaps even the 10th Circuit, applies the same reasoning to Utah's Amendment 2, upholding it because "[t]here is no authority in the Constitution of the United States or in this Court’s precedents for the Judiciary to set aside [Utah] laws that commit this policy determination to the voters."

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 22, 2014 1:31 p.m.

    Yes, Dr. King would be proud indeed!

    If its racist to discriminate against blacks in favor of white because blacks are black and whites are white, then its racist to discriminate against whites for being white in favor of blacks.

    Its not complicated liberals!

    Racism is racism

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    April 22, 2014 1:12 p.m.

    It is wonderful to see some of the institutionalism of racism, sexism and other "isms" that have seeped into our judicial and governmental systems over the past few decades start getting reversed.

    It is a major step toward the day dreamed of by Martin Luther King, myself and many people, when we will be judged based on the content of our **individual** character and behavior, rather than arbitrary characteristics of one kind of group identity or another. When we will each be acknowledged as unique human beings with equal, Creator-given rights, each a minority of one.