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Comments about ‘Letter: Right and wrong’

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Published: Tuesday, April 22 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Kent C. DeForrest
Provo, UT

Mike R:

"Where did rules come from? Look at the history of 'civilization.' How many societies believed in slavery?"

Interesting that you bring up slavery. At the time America was gearing up for the Civil War, it was actually those favoring slavery who had the better biblical argument. Fortunately, they had the less convincing moral argument.

Kimber
Salt Lake City, UT

Not everyone does something right because they feel they will be punished by "God" if they don't! "Some people (I'm hoping that most people) can think outside the box and do things right because that is what is good for others and good for them as well. The belief (or disbelief) in God shouldn't have anything to do with the actions of people towards their fellowmen.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "Schnee" put on the brakes there. I never said that a lack of God or that atheism leads to more crime.

I have only asked that you stop and think for a moment.

If there is no God, then morality becomes relative. You no longer have right and wrong, but you do what feels right to you.

If I am an atheist and according to my morals it is ok to steal your car, who is to say that it is wrong? You may not like it, but what do I have to worry about? No matter how I behave in this life I will have the same reward, death. At death there is no more. What does it matter if people erect monuments to me or if I am known as the most evil person ever?

As for life and death, think about it. If there is no God, then the birth of your child is about as exciting as purchasing a new computer with an empty hard disk. Death is the end of you, so funerals are pointless.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

I was taught [and still believe] that a child 8 years old can figure out what is right and what is wrong.

If you believe in God,
If you are LDS,
Then you are a slothful and unwise servant who must be commanded in all things.

Furthermore;
I use the Gods gift of the Holy Ghost to make manifest truth,
Not what’s right or wrong.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Redshirt: "If there is no God, then morality becomes relative."

------------

Even if you believe in a God, morality is STILL relative. It is according to your holy books, church leaders and your own interpertation of those teachings, right?

The 9-11 terrorists believed that they were being moral. Whether or not they were, that is what they believed. The attackers at the Mountain Meadow probably thought they had a right and were being moral too. Nephi was being moral when he killed, because God told him to do it, right?

But if Nephi lived today, he would be charged with 2nd degree murder. Isn't morality relative to the times, customs and mores of when and where you live? Killing all the people and children in a town seeems very immoral if done today, but in the Bible, we are sympathic to what they did.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Lane Myer" no, morality is not relative with God. Your understanding my be wrong, but with God right is right and wrong is wrong.

That brings up an interesting argument. Now, we have the Law of God as written by Prophets. If God spoke to his prophets in Biblical times, shouldn't he be speaking with his Prophets now? It is still up to us to find the Prophets who speak with God and can guide us.

Dennis
Harwich, MA

Reading these comments from front to back it makes you wonder how anyone, anywhere could possibly believe religion has any positive bearing on life whatsoever.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT
To "Lane Myer" no, morality is not relative with God. Your understanding my be wrong, but with God right is right and wrong is wrong.

=======

RedShirt - You are wrong.

"Sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4.),
But --
Where there is no law, there is no sin.

Sin cannot be committed unless (Alma 42:17) people have knowledge of those laws so that they can violate them. Adam and Eve could not commit sin while in the Garden of Eden, although laws of conduct had already been established, because "knowledge" of the laws of good and evil had not yet been given them.

It is on this principle also that little children "cannot sin until they begin to become accountable," because in their innocent state they are without "knowledge." (D. & C. 29:46-50; Moro. 8:8.) ~ Elder Bruce R. McConkie

my_two_cents_worth
university place, WA

@RedShirt

"morality is not relative with God."

It most definitely is. Look at the flood and the passover. That kind of genocide today would be considered highly immoral.

"we have the Law of God as written by Prophets"

Actually, you have "law of god" as interpreted and record by men, warts and all. It's second hand information at best so must be treated as such.

"shouldn't he be speaking with his Prophets now?"

Why doesn't he just speak to all of us? Get rid of the middleman and you'll clear up a whole lot of confusion.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Open Minded Mormon" even a transgression is against God's law. Hence, right is right and wrong is wrong. The only difference between transgression and sin is knowledge, either way you have done something that is wrong.

If you wish to discuss moral relativity, please review what has been said over the past 10 years regarding moral relativity. You will find that the leaders of the LDS church speak out AGAINST it.

To "my_two_cents_worth" the difference is that God owns this earth and all things that are in it. If God decides to clean house with a flood or by sending destroying angles, that is his right since we are his creation and he knows more about the direction the Earth is to take than we do.

Eventhough it is the prophets writing down what they are told by God, the words are still much better than the words that man alone would come up with.

The great thing is that God speaks to prophets when it comes to things he wants nations or the world to know. When it comes to each of us individually, he can and does talk to us. Most don't listen.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

"To "Lane Myer" no, morality is not relative with God. Your understanding my be wrong, but with God right is right and wrong is wrong."

----------

But who's God is God with the right morals? Is it Allah? You do not believe in him, but there are more Muslims are in the world that believe in him than Mormons, right? Does numbers of converts make one's God, God? Or does the Pentacostal Church have the right God since they all have had those spiritual experience, professing the truthfulness of their church and they have come to Jesus? Does having spiritual experiences make any church right? Or does each person have to weigh all that they have learned in this life and figure out what is moral for them? Doesn't that make it relative?

Or is it black and white? You seem to think so.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

"If there is no God, then morality becomes relative."

What morality is is personal. Even IF there is a god, and even IF that god is the one you think it is, morality is still personal. At least in this world. IF you are right then god WILL have his morality that he will judge you on. But if you are wrong, and it is Thor looking at you, well his morality will be MUCH different than what you think.

But, anyway, it's just your opinion that your god is real.

"If I am an atheist and according to my morals it is ok to steal your car, who is to say that it is wrong?"

The same thing that says it is wrong if you are religious and think it is moral to steal a car (or kill in gods name): society.

"What does it matter if people erect monuments to me or if I am known as the most evil person ever?"

Well, I don't care about monuments, but I do want to get along with people, and have my family, and friends, think good of me. God or no god.

Stormwalker
Cleveland , OH

"Well, I guess I kinda worked it out. If there's no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters... , then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do. Now. Today. I fought for so long, for redemption, for a reward, and finally just to beat the other guy, but I never got it. (Now)...All I wanna do is help. I wanna help because, I don't think people should suffer as they do. Because, if there's no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness is the greatest thing in the world." From the TV show "Angel," by Joss Whedon.

Ranch
Here, UT

@RedShirt;

You are making two assumptions. (1) God speaks to "prophets" and that they're not just pulling your leg and telling you that "god" speaks to them. (2) When you find a "prophet" speaking for god in your search for one, it isn't just someone pulling your leg. Other than their word for it, how will you really know?

Why is it "right" for god to order people to kill others when he explicitely commanded "thou shalt not murder"? Killing another person, even in the "name of god" is still Homicide - even when god commands it.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Ranch" and how is that different than the assumptions that you are making?

You are assuming that God no longer speaks to prophets like he did in Biblical times.

You can know the truth of all things if you ask God. In the Bible it states quite clearly that if you ask God, having faith that you will receive an answer, that he will tell you the truth of all things.

To "mark" actually morality is not relative. There are many absolutes that God has established. Just because you claim to be religious, that does not mean that you can change God's laws. Wrong is still wrong, and right is right.

Again, assuming that you are an atheist, in 1000 years, what does it matter if you were the image of good or the image of pure evil? Either way you are dead and your atoms have been recycled in the earth.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

"There are many absolutes that God has established."

Well, actually, that is just an assumption you make. And that's fine. Doesn't make it true, though. When you can prove your god, or any god, get back to me.

As far as morality being relative, whatever. In the bible god says anyone that harms children will be severely punished, and he says to slaughter children. And stone women. And love one another. And keep slaves. And all are his children.

Doesn't matter. Morality is PERSONAL. My morality differs from yours, and yours from the next guy. You want to claim yours is the correct one? Whatever. Knock yourself out. But don't think that makes it true.

I have no idea if what I do now will matter a 1000 years from now. But don't change the subject.

It doesn't matter. I choose to be good, and do good to those around me because it affects them, and me, RIGHT NOW. I don't do it based on some possible future supernatural reward, or punishment.

In fact, people that do what's right based on some possible future reward, don't seem, to me, to UNDERSTAND right.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@RedShirt;

Actually, I'm assuming that the "prophets" from the OT & NT were also liars.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "RanchHand" and that is why I testify of God's truths, and let you decide what to do with that information. I cannot force you to accept the truth, I can only present it to you.

Ranch
Here, UT

@RedShirt;

The problem is you present no truth, only opinion.

RedShirtCalTech
Pasedena, CA

To "Ranch" that is only your opinion. You present only your opinion.

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