Published: Tuesday, April 22 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT
If there is a God, your argument still holds no more weight. Who is God to say
what is right or wrong? Why would his opinion hold any more weight than anyone
The most moral people that I have ever met have all been atheists, for the
simple reason that they all do the right thing for no other reason than it is
the right thing to do. When you reach that point you can truly walk the world
like an adult.
@Untra Bob,Re: "Robbing a bank is a mans law, not one of God
commandments".... Ever heard of "Thou shalt not
steal"?I think it's one of God's commandments as
well.===@Open Minded Mormon,How many posts do you
get? One time you said they were all under the same account, so you only get 4
total... but that's not true is it?===Re:
"Please - get over yourself"...Good advice for ALL of us
(you included).===I think the message in the original
article has been completely lost in all these rants.He didn't
say atheists aren't moral. He said we ALL know what's right/wrong!He did describe that innate ability to discern right/wrong as the
"light of Christ" (which is a little presumptuous). But if it's
his belief that this gift has been given to ALL men... who cares? Why does
that offend anybody?Who cares where it came from... so long as we
To "Schnee" that is nice, but that does not answer the question.But not believing in God does not make them Atheists. According to
recent polling, only 13% identify themselves as Atheists, and 30% are Agnostic.
So, even in Sweden they still have some sort of belief in a higher power.Norway is similar. There is 66% that believe in a higher power, and
another 5% that are not sure. Only 30% say there is no God.If "
if God (or Gods) does not exist, then Karma does not exist either. So, what does
it matter if you harm others because this life is it?"What value
does life have if there is nothing beyond this life?
"If " if God (or Gods) does not exist, then Karma does not exist either.
So, what does it matter if you harm others because this life is it?""----------That is like saying that if God does not exist,
then for every action there is NOT an equal and opposite reaction. Some things happen because of your actions and God (if he exists) just sits
and watches. If he doesn't exist, it happens anyway.That is
Karma and it does matter if you harm others BECAUSE this life is it!
With this logic, since there is a God and final judgement, there are no need for
There's a lot of "bashing" going on. "Bashing" is against
the rules, but I guess that rules don't matter any more.Many
posters have told us that they or someone they know is inherently
"moral". They tell us that they or the person that they know always
makes the right decision. My question to them is how do they measure
"right" or "wrong"? Do they think that if someone says or does
something that they agree with, that that person is "right"?
That's a very shallow measurement.Our Creator gave us rules.
He told us that His law is absolute. He told us that only those who absolutely
obey his rules are candidates for His mercy. That's pretty clear to me.
It seems that the first duty that we have is to learn His rules and the second
duty that we have is to learn to live those rules.
Very good letter - very well said. Morality didn't just happen especially
if you swallow the story of evolution where we crawled out of the sea - sprouted
legs and started talking in senteneces. The atheist's tell us we are
nothing more than animals yet animals have no morals whatsoever. Somewhere along
the line someone burned into the very fiber of the human brain the concept that
murder and adultery and stealing and bearing false witness were all wrong. Hmmm
- where did that all come from anyway? I suppose someone might have just made it
all up but whomever that someone was he sure was influencial and powerful to
have such a universal impact on all humanity from Africa - Europe - The islands
of the sea and every other populated land mass on mother earth.
Yo, secular ethics. Also, humanism.
Wow, I knew conservatives were a little cuckoo for cocoa puffs on this subject
but the posts on this thread are downright scary. If your primary motivating
factor for treating others with respect, compassion, and love is either a) to
avoid God's wrath, or b) to gain your own eternal salvation then you are
not following either of the Two Great Commandments given us by Jesus Christ. Regardless, belief in a supreme being is not necessary to have order on
this planet. Religion (for those of us who believe) dictates how one acts and
functions at the individual level; however, the rest of society does not
subscribe to my personal moral convictions and cannot be held to those standards
lest we live in a theocracy. Indeed, society itself is shaped and informed by a
different set of rules. In the case of the US, the general accord by which we
all agree to live is the Constitution - which is why we are a secular nation.
"What value does life have if there is nothing beyond this life?"More value.
re:Karen R.More value?? Ok I'm confused. So you are saying a
person who has no belief is somehow more fulfilled? How so? I've know a few
atheists and at the end of their life they did FEAR death. My wife's aunt
comes to mind. The poor woman was terrified of death during her final hours. I
think she knew deep in her heart there was life after death and she also knew
she had squandered away her worldly life and faced an uncertain future of
loneliness. Contrast that to my wife's mother who was an LDS woman filled
with faith. Her final hours were peaceful and sweet. To suggest atheism adds
value is absurd. Atheism is cold and empty especially as a person contemplates
eternity. We all face death - even atheists. No choice in the matter. We will
all live beyond the grave and that is an absolute truth - opinion (yours or
mine) doesn't matter not in matters of absolute truth.
So, uh. . . "patriot", you know what your wife's Aunt was thinking?
Hmmm. Cool. Oh wait, no you don't. You said you "think" that was
the situation. Truth is, you have no idea. There are plenty of religious people
that are scared of death. In fact people react to death many different ways for
many different reasons. And yes, atheists have value to their lives.
And yes, for atheists I would imagine atheism adds more value to their lives
then religion. Many people find value in not believing superstition. Even if
that superstition is warm and fuzzy. I'm not atheist (unless
you want to define it literally: without religion). I'm agnostic. But I
find great value in not believing the absurdities superstitious people swallow.
For instance: "We will all live beyond the grave and that is an
absolute truth."Really? What are you basing that on? Whatever
you're basing it on, it's definitely not absolute truth, except in
your opinion. But like I said, I'm agnostic. I have no idea. But what I do
know, is that neither do you. Which is fine, you want to believe
that? Go ahead.
Thank you for writing this letter.
I just love how letters like this bring out all the adament athiest/agnostics.
Opinions like this about the importance of God to civilization really make you
guys mad. That should tell you something about how hard you are trying to
convince yourselves there is no god who makes the rules. Human opinion is all
you have, and who is to say who is right? Usually might makes right in human
opinion. Hitler would have been just as right as Ghandi. No getting around
@ PatriotThe saying does not go, "Live your life as if there are
infinite tomorrows." It is human nature to value something more when we
know we have just one of it."Atheism is cold and empty."Not believing in your god leaves me no more cold and empty than does
your lack of belief in Zeus and Thor. It isn't the principle belief that
guides my life. I presume you would say the same about your nonbelief in Zeus
and Thor. The only aspect of eternal life that ever appealed to me
was its promise of rejoining my lost loved ones. But once I learned that matter
is neither created nor destroyed, I realized that I would be rejoining them and
in the same state as they exist now; indeed, in the same state in which we
existed prior to this life. It seems that, as miniscule a part of this universe
as we are, we are an indelible part. That's eternal, isn't it? And
it doesn't require a suspension of natural laws."We are in
the universe and the universe is within us" seems to be true. This to me is
wondrous and awesome.
With over 70 comments posted, it's easy to see who has a moral compass and
who does not. Read and re-read the posts. The posts are a window into the
minds of the writers. See who attacks others by name. Is attacking a
"good" thing? Would someone with a strong moral compass attack another
human being? See who belittles the opinions of others. Is "belittling"
a good thing? Would someone with a strong moral compass belittle another human
being?This thread tells us more than some people would like to have
told about whether those who have a belief in God or those who profess that God
is not necessary have the stronger moral compass.Spend a few
minutes. Read each post. Think about what the post is really saying. It's
easy to see who has a strong moral compass and who is pretending to have a moral
compass. It's easy to see who has a strong idea of right and wrong and who
pretends to have a strong idea of right and wrong.
" Atheism is cold and empty " Different than religious
people atheists obtain their joy in life from life itself not from a belief that
oh my this can't be all. It doesn't matter whether you
are an atheist or claim to be a prophet, you love, you hate, you fear, you have
hope, you smile, you cry, in short you experience the full range of being a
human. Atheists and agnostics take joy in all of this. That's
the meaning of this life to us and the material from which this life is full and
warm. It doesn't require another life to be a complete human.
@Mike RichardsYou wrote ' "Goodness" comes from God. America
was founded by people who actually believed that our liberties are a gift from
our Creator, our God. Our forefathers wanted us to remember that fact. They put
the words, "In God We Trust" on every coin and on every denomination of
paper money that is issued by the Government.'I suppose by
definition, a member of the past generations of one's family or people; an
ancestor added the words to our money, but your letter leads one to believe you
meant the founders of our country added the words--i.e., that our money has
always had the motto. In the United States, prior to 1838 coins did
not bear the motto "In God We Trust". The motto first appeared in paper
money in 1958.
@Redshirt1701Oh I'm sorry, I thought that the arguments that atheism
leads to immorality would show correlations between atheism and crime.
Didn't realize you all were arguing there was a tipping point where effects
are completely invisible until one reaches a certain percentage of
atheists..."What value does life have if there is nothing beyond
this life?"If you can't find any value in this life that
doesn't involve the life beyond...If this is all the time we
have, then it's best to make this life as fulfilling as we can. @patriot"More value?? Ok I'm confused. So you are saying a
person who has no belief is somehow more fulfilled?"They might
be, might not. Depends on the individual.'If there's an
afterlife, then the life we have here is not precious. I don't wish
that's the way the world worked' - Penn Jillette"at
the end of their life they did FEAR death."Fun fact: many people
fear death, including the religious.@SCfan" Opinions like
this about the importance of God to civilization really make you guys
mad."I'd say being told they are immoral makes them mad.
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