Published: Tuesday, April 22 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT
@ Demosthenes, you state: "[Atheists] choices have no concrete basis. They
are pure opinion, changeable, debatable, subjective, and contextual."
I'm not arguing for atheism, by no means, but this sounds exactly like what
has gone on in religions for thousands of years.
How many in this forum have had atheists going from door to door preaching their
message? Taking all of history into consideration, who has caused more pain and
suffering than the religious? Get off it and quit doubting your own faith
because your neighbor may not believe, because based of some of the points I
have read here I think there is much insecurity.
If one requires belief of a higher power and the accompanying fear of eternal
damnation to "treat others as they would be treated" they are lacking in
both empathy and compassion and are "good" for all the wrong reasons.
@ marxist, you address the comment of Mike Richards, "How many societies
believed in slavery? " You don't have to go to ancient Israel. The
U.S. will do nicely.
The Lord cleansed the earth with the flood after He had sent Enoch to invite the
righteous to join with him. The flood was necessary and a merciful act because
only those who rejected God were left. The children would be taught false
doctrine. Sometime in the future The Lord will cleanse the earth
again. This time with fire. Mockers will have a front row seat.All
goodness comes from God. He is merciful as long as there is a chance that people
will repent, but when they are fully ripe, He will spare further rebellion by
judging them.Those who think that they, themselves, are authors of
righteousness, have fooled themselves into thinking that all creation revolves
around them. Paul told us that none of us are good, that we all have fallen
short of the mark, yet many still think that they can make the rules that govern
Mike is this the same Noah that lived over 900 years?Funny how
science shows life spans have increased in modern times yet we only live to
around a maximum of 100 years.
@Mike RichardsI bet there is not a dry eye in the tent when you're
done preaching. I feel fortunate that our divinely inspired constitution you
always refer to keeps your beliefs out of our public schools and government. At
least that's the way it's suppose to work.
Anyone needing to bash atheists in order to justify their moral or religious
views probably aren't truly convicted or converted in their views in the
first place. Mike Richards, rather than bash other view points, I invite you to
read and pray for the truth. The Lord instructs us in James 1:5 to ask in faith
and we will receive answers to our prayers. He does not instruct us to bash
other religious or philosophical views. Ask and ye shall receive.
That is what The Lord has told us. So stop bashing and start asking.
@ one old man"Doesn't it come down to something called
FAITH on both sides of the coin?"I don't think so because
it doesn't require faith for me to say "I don't know" or
"I am not convinced by the evidence." Both are assessments of material
evidence. Faith is belief, no evidence required.As for the need for
books and conventions, as you suggested, these are reflective of human needs
common to all of us. And particularly when surrounded by dominant, and
sometimes hostile, majorities, it is even more important for individuals to know
they are not alone.I really think the saying, "We're all
atheists as to others' gods. Atheists just go one god further," sums
up pretty well the difference between believers and nonbelievers. Outside of
this, we're all about equally good, equally bad. We're all just --
I don't think that the people attacking the letter writer actually sat down
and thought about what was written.He didn't say you can't
be a good person that is kind and upstanding.The question is simple.
If there is no God, then who is to say what is right and what is wrong. If God
does not exist, why is it ok to abort but not allow for parents to euthanize a
child that is crippled?How about this, if there is no God, what is
the point of a funeral? Aren't we wasting valuable land that could be used
for farms or low income housing?If God does not exist, why is it
wrong for me to rob a bank to feed my family? It is science that promotes
survival of the fittest, and I am proving how fit I am by obtaining what I need
for me and my family.To "FT" I think you have it wrong.
Atheism is the worst thing to come to earth. Just in the past 100 years it has
killed hundreds of billions of people in the name of ideology.
"The Lord will cleanse the earth again. This time with fire. Mockers will
have a front row seat."He is your god and you are free to
tremble in fear of his "wrath" all you wish. He is not my god and I
won't fear him. Truth be told, I would be hard pressed to worship a god as
petty and vengeful as this one appears to be. I'll stick to treating
everyone I encounter with the respect and kindness due them and do so because it
is the right thing to do; not because I am trying to impress some far off deity.
@Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahIt amazes me we attend the
same Church and Temple Bro. Richards.I'm not motivated by a
fear or wrath of God, this cleansing by floods and burning in eternal fire
and torment you refer to, ya-da, ya-da.The God you descibed is more
like the devil himself.The God I follow is kind, merciful, patient,
inclusive, tolerent, forgiving = Love.with 3 degrees of Glory -- and none
of this fire and brimstone speak.BTW -- the cleansing of the Earth
by fire is a metaphor.Like after baptism [the flood], recieving the Holy
Ghost [the fire].No one that I know was ever baptized and then set
on fire.And we are supposed to be cleasing the earth by fire by
living and sharing the Gospel, it will sweep the Earth like Fire...
I do not apologize for my belief in God. It doesn't matter who twists
posts. Misrepresenting things has been going on since Satan lied to Adam and
Eve. Those who think that they are the source of truth have taken a
huge bite from the "Apple". They reject God. They reject God's
laws. They elevate themselves to a position that no one can self-appoint himself
to.A dose of humility might help them. George Washington thanked a
merciful God for sparing this nation, but many reject that God as they elevate
themselves. No person can elevate himself into the realm of deity where rules
are made. Only those who have been invited into that realm can enter. Those
who reject God will never receive that invitation.You won't be
the first nor will you be the last to mock. You'll be listed in the
footnotes of human history along with all who mocked our Creator, our God and
those who revered Him.Christ warned us of the great and terrible day
when He would come in glory. But as Ether told us, fools mock but they shall
Mike Richards says:"...then we must also believe that opposition to
Him and to His rules must exist ...""It is a mockery for
people to assign sinful behavior to God."--- Your first premise
is a belief, not a fact, therefore your second is also a belief, not a fact.--- We assign the "sinful" behavior to men. I quoted
"sinful" because, like religion, "sin" is a man-made concept.
Since your god doesn't exist, he can't "sin".God
also "commanded" Nephi to kill Laban in the BOM.The
"Flood" and "Adam & Eve" are just more fiction.Zeus isn't all that merciful if you get him angry. He throws lightning
bolts at you.@FT;I have to think he puts everyone to
sleep. ;)@Redshirt1701;No need for a god to say that
harming others is only going to end up coming back to bite you in the butt
If there was a civilization of Atheist people with all the same physical wants
and needs of any other mass of people, would the rules, laws and regulations of
their society be any different that the rules of America except for the rules of
religion? Would they not benefit from the rules that control their behavior and
would they still make rules like don't steal and don't kill.
Redshirt 1701I agree, what is the point of a funeral? Aren't we
wasting valuable land that could be used for farms or low income housing?Robbing a bank is a mans law, not one of God commandments. The
consequences will come from the men in your society. How do you
come to " Atheism is the worst thing to come to earth. Just in the past 100
years it has killed hundreds of billions of people in the name of ideology"?
To "Ranch" but if God (or Gods) does not exist, then Karma does not
exist either. So, what does it matter if you harm others because this life is
it. When you die, there is nothing more. It no longer matters if you were
perfectly good or perfectly evil, your fate is the same if there is no God.
It is easy to think that way, but to be fair, being atheist doesn't mean
that they don't have morals. Atheists, I am sure, believe in right and
wrong. Believing in God doesn't mean a person has a good sense of right and
wrong. As a matter of fact, a lot of people have wrongfully been put to death in
the name of God! Thousands and thousands of people in history have died in vain,
all because people had to fight over the identity of God. I have always believed
in God, but as soon as people knew that I am gay, they would treat me as if I
didn't! If you pay attention to people talking about religious freedom, you
will notice that they are not talking about religious freedom for gay people! It
was good that someone is thinking about this! At least there is consideration
about what somebody else believes. I love talking to others about God. I just
don't find too many that would really listen to how I believe. It is sad
because I have a lot of faith in Him
Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahI do not apologize for my belief in
God. It doesn't matter who twists posts. Misrepresenting things has been
going on since Satan lied to Adam and Eve. Those who think that they
are the source of truth have taken a huge bite from the "Apple". They
reject God. They reject God's laws. ========== You
do not need to apologize for your belied in God.But you crossed the
line and really should take responsibiliy and apologize for a self-righteous
indignate judgement of the beliefs of others.Just because WE --
(which includes many MANY fellow Latter-Day Saints) do not goose-step march and
agree with you 100% does not make any of us taking "a huge bite from
the "Apple". rejecting God. or rejecting God's laws."Please - get over yourself.
@Redshirt1701"To "Ranch" but if God (or Gods) does not exist,
then Karma does not exist either. So, what does it matter if you harm others
because this life is it."New Hampshire has both the lowest crime
rate in the U.S. and the highest percentage of atheists and a mere 18% of Swedes
and 22% of Norwegians answered yes to "I believe there is a God" while
those nations are hardly killing each other. The people who
can't figure out why someone would be good when there isn't a
punishment/reward system attached to it... those people are the ones who lack a
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