To "anotherview" so then you agree that voter fraud does exist, and that
voter ID laws are not a problem for the poor.
Re:RedShirt"The fact is that the Voter ID laws allow for more than
just a driver's license to be used as ID"Laws vary from
state to state. The articles you cited don't reveal
prosecution of voter impersonation. Ohio found very few, if any, prosecutable
cases of voter fraud. Ohio Sec of State Husted says voter fraud is rare.
To "Spangs" lets see what we can find on the internet about voter
fraud:"Non-Existent Problem or Election-Threatening
Epidemic?" ABC News. Apparently it does exist, and some people have been
caught."Study finds 765 cases of NC voter fraud in 2012
election" Daily Tarheel. Apparently in 2012 NC found 765 cases of voter
fraud.From the Ohio state government web site "Secretary of
State Husted ReleasesPost-2012 General Election Voter Fraud Report".
Apparently they prosecuted some people for voter fraud, and that doesn't
include the people who got away with fraud.From the NY Times we read
"Indiana Secretary of State Guilty of Voter Fraud".Apparently it is more widespread than you want to admit.
badger,badger,badger"republicans want to stop this." So
tell me about the voter fraud you mention, where does it really exist? Are they
also preventing voter fraud by cutting back on early voting, cutting back on
non-working hours voting, cutting back on voting machines thus creating long
lines in only certain areas. Have republicans really lost their soul?
When 34 states enact a law to curb voter fraud that doesn't exist, well
something else is compelling those legislatures to enact these laws. It is
clear why it is done. Republicans only half-heartedly argue the point just to
introduce a sliver of plausible deniability. It shouldn't be something
democrats are too disparaged about. These laws only speak to the great lengths
that republicans will do to remain competitive. Time will see us through this
agonal breath of libertarian radicalism.
Re: "I smell a rat."As well you should. Liberals are
investing inordinate sums of political capital in a cause that can only
unlawfully benefit them, hurting the Nation and everyone else.Rabid,
but phony advocacy on behalf of that 1/100 of 1% of American voters that
don't have ready access to some acceptable form of identification can have
only one possible purpose -- enabling the cheaters that will illegally vote
early and often for their cynical liberal overlords and paymasters.It's beyond sad that liberals now embrace cheating as an acceptable, as
their primary electioneering tactic.
Maybe both the Democratic and Republican party can follow the example of
Mexico(!) and support the issuance of Voter ID cards. Voting rates in Mexico
are rising, which is something the US should try to emulate, it would seem...at
least that would be the superficial statement.Of course, in the US
you have conspiracy theorists who would view Voter ID Cards as a kind of hit
list from anti-gun, fascist / socialist / communist government bureaucrats, or
if you prefer, from an African American standpoint, another attempt at the
Tuskeegee experiments. (Bonus question - which of those two fantasies is more
founded in reality?)
Hey Mike Richards -Flying on an airplane, entering the White House,
watching Congress, and giving blood are NOT civil rights.Voting is a
civil right.See the difference?Or do you think the
Founders required Photo ID's for citizens to vote?
@Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, Utahslcdenizen,Oh, I see.
You have to pay to fly. How much do you have to pay to enter the White House? Do
they let the poor, the humble, the meek enter, or is that "visit"
reserved for snobs who look down on people who don't have the proper I.D.
to enter?======= and yet, here you are cheering a SCOTUS
ruling that says money is Free Speech?!Oh, that's a good
one.You need to be consistant.It's shows integrity.
slcdenizen, Oh, I see. You have to pay to fly. How much do you
have to pay to enter the White House? Do they let the poor, the humble, the
meek enter, or is that "visit" reserved for snobs who look down on
people who don't have the proper I.D. to enter?How much does it
cost to watch Congress, or is that "privilege" reserved for the
"rich guy"? How about getting a library card? It's
been years since I got my card, but I had to prove that I lived at the address
that I gave. They accepted my driver's license as proof.Even
at the "pearly gates" we'll need to be escorted by someone who will
vouch for us. Christ Himself will be our sponsor. There are rules
and regulations everywhere. Just because someone thinks he can win an election
by fraud doesn't mean that the good citizens of the United States have to
agree with him. Read the newspaper. How many "swing" counties voted a
straight ticket? How many "swing" counties had more than 100% of
eligible voters vote?
Roland Roland Roland,Categorizing republicans as uneducated is
completely false. How rude!!It is you who needs to be educated. All
you need for a state college ID is a pulse and paid up tuition. You have to show
multiple forms of official state ID to get a concealed carry permit.Another lie - Early voting and showing ID are not in any way exclusive. Utah
encourages early voting, and vote by mail, and requires showing ID. It is live people posing as dead people, non-citizens posing as citizens, and
bus loads of people taken out of their state to sway the vote in swing states
that are the problem. These people vote almost exclusively democrat. Yes republicans want to stop this. Every real American should want to stop
To "silas brill" you should get your vision check if you see this as an
issue of Republicans comitting fraud.The fact is that the Voter ID
laws allow for more than just a driver's license to be used as ID. In
order for those same people to get their Obamacare insurance, a person has to
provide proof of identification.To get welfare, buy alcohol,
tobacco, and some cold medications require proof of ID.The poor have
their forms of ID that are used all the time. The big question you should be
asking is why is it that Democrats want ID for everything but voting.
Many states recognize a concealed carry permit as a valid form of ID but not a
state issued university idea. Why would this be? Simple holders of concealed
carry permits are likely republicans college students are likely democrats.States requiring ID are also doing all they can to restrict early
voting. Why? More democrats vote early, republicans are more likely to only vote
on election day.If you look at pooling places where there are lines
lasting for hours you find that they are likely to heavily democratic precincts
in republican states, obviously to discourage democrats from voting. Florida
even passed a law stating that people waiting in line to vote are not allowed to
used public restrooms, no matter how long the wait. Of course, in heavily
republican precincts you find plenty of machines, plenty of poll workers and no
long lines.Are these all coincidences? Or have the republicans
realized that they can only win if they can stop democrats from voting?
@Mike RichardsYou can't board a flight without paying a fee, or
gaining a drivers license, or drive a car. Why shouldn't we likewise
require a fee for voting? In order to graduate from school, you must prove to be
literate, why not make reading a requirement at the polls? See, unchecked logic
is both satifying and simple. No need to take into account possible negative
ramifications or the unpredictability of human behavior. I guess being an
American conservative is easy, there's no need for critical thought or
analysis because everything can be put in simplistic terms and anyone can be an
No sd I am saying parroting left wing talking points against voter id laws is
bogus considering photo id is required to be had by everyone due to the ACA.
And where do you propose I have discounted healthcare because liberals require
photo id. My point is how does the liberal left argue against the requirement
to show photo id for voting but require it for healthcare. It is
the argument of liberals to say photo id required for voting is a hardship on
the poor or racial and yet they require photo id for health care. It is this
policy that shows the liberals don't care about the poor obtaining
healthcare not me.
You can't fly on an airplane without photo I.D.You can't
enter the White House without photo I.D.You can't watch a
session of Congress from the gallery without photo I.D.You
can't give blood without photo I.D.When the President changes
the rules to allow anyone fly on an airplane or to enter the White House, or to
watch a session of Congress without requiring photo I.D., then we'll know
that he's serious. Until then, it's just more of do what I say, not
what I do.
So JSF you're arguing against identification requirements? Or you
don't care if people vote or obtain healthcare?My guess is you
don't really care as long as republicans win elections they would otherwise
lose.The republican party chooses to represent a very small portion
of the population. That's not our fault. Adapt or lose.
Then the 2011 Associated Press analysis also shows that the federal proposed
healthcare identification law would hit black precincts in South Carolina the
hardest, keeping thousands from obtaining health care. Arguments against voter
id laws are moot, since the passing of ACA.
We know republicans are trying to suppress democrat voters because they slip and
say it:Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai told a
gathering of Republicans that their voter identification law would “allow
Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania.” After the
election, former Florida GOP chairman Jim Greer told The Palm Beach Post that
the explicit goal of the state’s voter-ID law was Democratic suppression.
In 2011 an Associated Press analysis found that South
Carolina’s proposed voter-identification law would hit black precincts the
hardest, keeping thousands from casting nonprovisional ballots. That
it's not always working and black voters are still turning out is not a
defense DN. Shame.
I’m amazed at arguments against voter ID. We hear about the poor who may
not have id. However, as our recent experience in getting healthcare insurance,
a requirement put upon us by the liberal left, the same who foster reasons for
not having voter ID, requires valid photo ID to obtain health insurance. Are these same people saying the poor are not entitled to health care
because they have no photo id. Oh wait they make sure these same people have
photo ID for health care. What, they have photo ID, then how are voter id laws
disenfranchising any group of people. Smell the rat, liberals profess a problem
that does not exist to create an environment that will foster voter fraud. Want
to go to a national democrat event, photo id (voter id) required.Silas Brill says "the voter ID effort is the shadiest attempt to
inconvenience these people." Obamacare is the shadiest attempt to
inconvenience these people because it requires every single person in the United
States registering for health insurance (required for all persons) to have photo
id. The same photo id is required to get healthcare when getting care at a
clinic or hospital.
Hey Silas Brll -"I smell a rat."No, you're
smelling Republican dogma.
If we believe in our republican (not small "r") form of democracy, then
we should do everything we can do get people to vote.If we do not
believe in democracy, then we should throw up roadblocks to prevent people from
voting. Look at other countries who have high rates of voting, and see what
makes sense to this country. One minor change might be to acknowledge that it
is silly to vote on a work day. There are many others.However, it
seems to me that the policy of the Republican party is to make it difficult for
the average working person to vote. Which must lead us to suppose that
Republican believe that the voting franchise is to be reserved for a special
rights minority in this country, namely older and relatively well off white
It's baffling to me how the D-News thinks this is a big enough issue to
justify an editorial, when voter participation rates here in Utah are anemic, at
best.Instead of just being a media outlet for right wing talk radio,
maybe the D-News should investigate and report on why the US is no longer
considered a democratic nation, but has been categorized as an Oligarchy. This
seems to be kind of a big deal, at least to those who study political systems.
What is an Oligarchy? Does the definition fit?Voter fraud? How
prevalent is this, really? Maybe instead it would be informative to
report on how we're evolving perilously closer toward legalized
In your opinion, whatever the extreme right wants is good. Here are a couple
more ideas. One, your relentless, daily shots at the President are getting old.
Two, you have absolutely no idea of what is going on in the rest of country and
the history of civil rights. The problems are often subtle, sometimes not, but
judging it from here is a little like trying to determine if there is life on
another planet. You just don't get it. So, please, stop parroting the
Republican line. It is apparent from a whole number of issues that they
don't much care for the middle class, and they sure as heck don't
believe in inclusiveness, especially when it comes to voting.
Silas, I bet you have never been at a poll in a swing state, near the state
line. That is why you haven't seen any voter fraud. It doesn't occur
in Heber. The idea that voter ID is discriminatory is just the
democrats playing the race card, yet again.The only ones that
picture ID requirements will prevent from voting are those who are voting in
behalf of dead people, or other people who are not them, or people who are not
eligible voters due to lack of residence in the voting precinct. I don't
know what color those people will be, and I don't care, and neither do
republicans in general.
Black=Democrat, that's the issue."But as The Wall Street
Journal recently opined, “if the states are secretly trying to suppress
minority turnout, they're doing a lousy job.”. That shows
what..nothing. Most predict with effort these attempts at Democratic/black vote
suppression won't be successful either. It doesn't mean the
Republicans aren't trying.
Why is voter fraud suddenly an issue for the right? Have independent studies
produced alarming data about an increase in fraud? Nope. This article sheds some
light on it: "As Census data show, the 2012 election was the
first in which black voters cast ballots at a higher rate (66.2 percent of
eligible voters) than white voters (64.1 percent)."If
Republicans consistently won the black vote, they would be eagerly trying to
pass laws enabling easier methods of voting, including online options. Instead,
they are devising hurdles which adversely affect the constituencies that vote
Democrat, like voter ID laws or restricting voting on certain days. The
Republican party and modern conservative ideology is morally and intellectualy
bankrupt and the sooner we realize it, the sooner we can begin shaping more
competitive parties and elections.
I don't believe the voter ID laws are necessarily targeting blacks, per se.
I think they are targeting people who most likely vote for Democrats. Theses
may be poor folks who don't drive, or elderly or urban people who rely
exclusively on public transportation and therefore don't have a drivers
license. Or maybe they are targeting blacks. Regardless, the voter
ID effort is the shadiest attempt to inconvenience these people. My reasoning
for this is that it is entirely a Republican attempt to prevent voter fraud,
something that is virtually non-existent. I smell a rat.The Republicans beat their chests professing their superior adherence and
sincere fealty to the Constitution. What they don't get is that
Constitutional rights - such as the Constitutional right to vote - are not
conditional on having a photo ID. I wonder what the Founders would say about
that. The only fraud I see is Republican.