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Comments about ‘In our opinion: Confronted by power, Christ instead chose the truth. Will we do likewise?’

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Published: Sunday, April 20 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Screwdriver
Casa Grande, AZ

It's always interesting to note that Christ's message was NOT one of strict personal responsibility but one one strict communal responsibility.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

" Can we call ourselves civilized, ... when we discount and demean the intentions of people of faith? " The answer is certainly no, especially if we discount or demean out of hand.

I don't wish to detract from this beautiful editorial (with which I almost entirely agree). But I would like to make an observation, that being when people of faith use secular learning to make a point, they should not be summarily discounted. An example would be the Christian economist Henry George who tried to explain economic inequality as being the outcome of the private ownership of land. His work "Progress and Poverty" has never gotten the attention it deserves from the Christian church.

An even better example would be Pope Francis who used some secular economic background to decry the inattention of the church to world poverty. He was, I think, called a Marxist by many for bringing up the matter. Let's be more reasonable and honest.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Going through the list of christs' teachings, I can't help but think that, through todays' lens, he's a socialist through and through.

GaryO
Virginia Beach, VA

I can agree with most of the author's opinions.

Yes, the teachings of Jesus Christ should be taken to heart. From His teachings we can clearly see that Jesus was, is, and always will be a Liberal and a Progressive who looked favorably upon the Founders as they created a government "for the people," and not just for the Sadducees, and the Pharicees, and those who hold great wealth.

Toward the end of the article though, I had to take exception to the contention that religion can rightfully insinuate itself into government. The "wall of separation" built by the founders should not be undermined. Patriotic and sensible Christians see wisdom in the Constitutional mandate separating church and state.

BBMG
PROVO, UT

The huge difference between socialism and Christ's plan is quite clear. Democratic Socialism allows people to steal property from others through a gang style political process of majority voting for legalized theft. The Lord's plan was to allow everyone the freedom to choose to be charitable or not. Democratic Socialism confiscates free choice and eliminates the personal opportunity to exercise and receive the blessings of charity, by stealing the right to choose. Democratic socialism produces multiple victims: The tax collector becomes a thief, the government employees processing the redistribution become distributors of stolen property, the voters for redistribution legislation become conspirators/accessories to theft and the recipient becomes a receiver of stolen property. Charity blesses the giver, the receiver and all involved, whereas democratic socialism turns everyone involved into conspirators/supporters of an ugly, illegal, corrupt and dishonest counterfeit version of charity. Amendment V states that money cannot be taken for public use without just compensation, so democratic socialism is also a civil rights violation.

george of the jungle
goshen, UT

I think that the most important thing in the world is life. The next thing would be for life to be self sufficient. Since I can't do it all by by self I have to count on and depend on others. But I don't have to use other peoples money when I'm a grown-up like when I was an adolescent. This is where Jesus comes in so we wont be blind and toothless.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

The less one knows about Christ, the more that person uses Christ to support their favorite "sin" or political cause. It has been said that if all that Christ has done, as the Creator, as the Son of God, as a member of the Godhead, were published, that this world would not be large enough to hold those volumes; yet, too many like to pigeon-hole him as a spokesman for their cause.

He told us that His mission, during His mortal ministry, was not to rule as King. He taught simple principles, that, if followed, would bring an end to much of the misery of life. Some, even today, tell us that He was a Marxist, or a Communist, or whatever it is that they believe in. He was nothing of the kind. He, as the Son of God, was sent here to this earth to experience mortality and to perform the atonement that all creation might be perfected, on the condition that those who desired perfection would abandon their self-imposed rules and then follow His rules.

He told the truth. Too many twist His words.

keepamericafree
salt lake, UT

In response to some of the comments. Christ was NOT a socialist! Christ taught free will. That no one should be FORCED to do something. He taught that we should give unto others freely and by our own choosing. Forcing people was the devils plan.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

Hutterite and Marxist: You couldn't be more confused about the teachings of Christ. He absolutely is not a Socialist and he certainly is not a Communist, however that conclusion is drawn! When Christ is in charge, a lot will change for the better, but there will be no welfare, no abortions, no adultery, no dishonesty, no support of anything remotely immoral, unwise, or unjust! liberty will reign, peace will be present, and His laws under His government will prevail. Until then, man's counterfeit, inspired by Satan, Socialism, will be presented as a method to achieve dominion, control, and abuse! Man's best chance to help humanity is not by communal equality, something that has already been proven in history as leading to the death and abuse of hundreds of millions of God's children, but through the support of those unalienable Rights of man guaranteed in the United States Constitution, liberated in a free market system that has nothing to do with Socialistic thought! Socialism and Communism are anti-God at there core and must be shown to be so at every turn, including exposing those who support them!

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Agreed with noted correction --

Jesus was not crucified by the power of the State or the Government - i.e., ROMANS.
At his trial, the Romans found [Pilate] found him innocent.

He was convicted and crucified by the Pharisee's for blasphemy --
and they evoked the Jewish tradition of using the Scape Goat [also prophesied by the Law of Moses] to seal his fate.

Pendergast
Salt Lake City, UT

to Cats

But, its okay when the right use religion for their own selfish end? You know Terry Schiavo, Faith based initiatives, etc...

Henry Drummond
San Jose, CA

A Roman Senator known as Pliny the Younger wrote a letter to Emperor Trajan in 101 AD that I believe would be appropriate for your readers on this Sunday. It contains the earliest known description of we have of Christian worship. Pliny says the Christians

"were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing an antiphonal hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so."

(Pliny, Letters 10.96)

Happy Easter

bj-hp
Maryville, MO

I think it is wrong to label Jesus Christ as a Liberal and a progressive because he was neither. Nor was he a conservative but was the only begotten son of the Father in the flesh. In the end the Government will be upon his shoulders and all knees shall bow and all tongues confess he is the Christ, the living Son of God. To make it otherwise is wrong and misleading. By the way there is no Constitutional mandate separating Church and State. Reread the words of Thomas Jefferson and you will find just the opposite of today's Liberal secularism. When laws embodied by man follows the laws and commandments of God, societies prosper greatly and enthusiastically where there are no poor among them.

This is where when the Gospel of Jesus Christ is followed to its entire extent and all live under its rule then all shall be as one. That is the Gospel and contention shall not be part of this Government when Christ shall rule it all his glory.

Gregorio
Norco, CA

Teachings of Christ always taught the burden of debt is as destructive to freedom as subjugation by conquest and that the proper role of governments is to protect equal rights, not provide equal things. So then all things created by God, therefore upon Him all mankind are equally dependent, and to Him they are equally responsible. As a religious leader said," The duties and responsibilities of our citizenship depends upon our accepting and demonstrating God's government.The choice before is plain, Christ or chaos, conviction or compromise, discipline or disintegration."(Peter Marshall, The Rebirth of America, Page 205, 1986, Arthur S. DeMoss Foundation.)

Lbone
Salt Lake City, UT

To Gary O. and others: The "separation of church and state" is found nowhere in the Constitution. Careful study of the writings of the likes of Thomas Jefferson indicate, were, according to David Barton, supportive of the notion that government was not infringe upon public religious activities:

"...Jefferson believed that God, not government, was the Author and Source of our rights and that the government, therefore, was to be prevented from interference with those rights. Very simply, the "fence" of the Webster letter and the "wall" of the Danbury letter were not to limit religious activities in public; rather they were to limit the power of the government to prohibit or interfere with those expressions."

Two very key principles derived from this statement and others are that 1) God is the source of our rights -- not government; 2) government should not and cannot suppress public religious expression.

Karen R.
Houston, TX

@Lbone

David Barton is not a credible source. His 2012 book on Jefferson was withdrawn from sale by its(Christian) publisher because of its numerous factual errors. He does what many Christian apologists do: Rather than following the evidence where it leads, he starts from a conclusion that serves his agenda and then cherry-picks and distorts facts and information to support it.

GaryO
Virginia Beach, VA

“The ‘separation of church and state’ is found nowhere in the Constitution?”

Those exact words are not found in the Constitution, but it is in the Constitution nevertheless.

And David Barton doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Jefferson’s was a deist, like other prominent Founders, and nothing indicates that “Jefferson believed that God, not government, was the Author and Source of our rights.”

The founders believed in the power of government to give us good governance. That is why they created the Constitution and our government.

Do you really want religion in government? Which religion? A government of Christian Evangelicals might decree that the Mormon Church is a dangerous cult and its members are treasonous. Would you like that?

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.”

Get used to it.

Jamescmeyer
Midwest City, USA, OK

People often argue that the United States is not a "Christian" country; these people don't study history. Rather than study the words of those who have come before us in making this nation-and all Christian nations-successful, they dismiss them as whatever they will and enforce their own non-Christian or even anti-Christian ways, consistantly bringing failure with it.

People often argue that a Christian foundation is not necessary to promote freedom and morality. Though their individual arguments may genuinely seem valid to them, they don't look around at the nations of the world, nor do they compare America today with America in the past, else they'd see, in a big-picture sense, how essential it really is.

When I was a child, I cried "Hosanna!" because people told me to. Now I cry "Hosanna!" despite people telling me -not- to, because I know what it means.

Karen R.
Houston, TX

@ Jamescmeyer

If the U.S. was a Christian nation in the sense that you mean it, it would be a theocracy. I trust that you will agree that it is not a theocracy.

What CAN be said is that, throughout U.S. history, the majority of U.S. citizens have been adherents of some form of Christian-based religion.

What can also be said is that the Constitution is the foundational law of the land, that it was written by a collection of theists, deists, and agnostics, and that their thinking was influenced by the Enlightenment, their respective religious beliefs (or lack thereof), and their personal experiences.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

"....current threats to banish God from public life, if successful, would leave us without truth and subject to the whims of earthly power...."
______________________________

Freedom of thought is the operative value here. Government hasn’t the power to banish God and, with all due respect to Dwight Eisenhower, it hasn't the right to promote faith, much less favor any belief system above others. The only proper role of Government in this country with respect to belief is one of strict neutrality.

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