Comments about ‘There are no Frodos without Sams: The reality of interdependence’

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Published: Friday, April 18 2014 12:08 p.m. MDT

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Ranch
Here, UT

Did I just read this in the DN?

Amazing.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

Ranch, I'm with you. However notice the lack of comments.

I'm just re-reading outliers for fun and just finished the chapter where Caldwell chronicles this same idea in the lives of so many accomplished individuals. The interesting part here is that this idea is at the heart of his famous 10,000 hours chapter. He shows how without the help of others and some pure dumb luck many famous people would not of even had the opportunity to practice their talent for 10,000 hours and we wouldn't have ever heard of them.

FT
salt lake city, UT

Gentlemen-
While this editorial is "precious", Sam and Frodo are fictional charecters and I think that's where this editiorial is leaning as well. For most of the readers of this paper, "a village" is fine for movies or if we are discussing the church but when it comes to the real world, the prefernce should be to live like Jermiah Johnson and just take care of yourself.

1covey
Salt Lake City, UT

Mountain men had to get along with their environment, which included those native to the area. Common sense that life is a mixture of personal responsibility and also cooperation with others.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

@pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah
Ranch, I'm with you. However notice the lack of comments.

--------

I've posted 2 --
The DN "monitor" did not post them.

Must be some hidden "rules" about saying: "Socialism" and getting ready for the negative uber-consenservative comments to come through out the day.

GZE
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

It takes a village - what a concept!

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

A garden is an example of what life is really like. Someone has to till the ground, someone has to water the garden. Someone has to pull the weeds. Someone has to pick the fruit and vegetables. But, once that fruit and those vegetables have been picked, everyone in the community thinks that they have the right to eat because God gave us earth, and sunshine and water. They didn't till. They didn't water. They didn't weed. They didn't even pick the fruit and the vegetables; but, they think that they own the "fruits of labor".

Mr. Obama did not pay for the roads, the schools, or anything else that we all hold in common and have all paid for. (Government pays for nothing. The People pay all the bills of government.) We all have equal access to those "roads" and to everything that "government" claims to have provided. If someone uses those "roads" to gain a profit, he is entitled to his profit. ANYONE can do the same. NO ONE deserves any of those profits except the person who labored for them.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Everyone is entitled to the profits of their labours. However, as noted in the article, they took advantage of all the benefits of our organised, governed society to create those profits from labour. We all have responsibility to maintain the infrastructure, including governance, that underpins our prosperity. The prosperity wouldn't be there without it. Who knows, this concept could even be extended to the provision of health care, but that's for another article.

FT
salt lake city, UT

@Mike Richards
How do your post get approved with CAPITALS? We "the people" are the goverment. That was Barrack's point. In addition to hard work, sucess requires a strong support system of family, friends, and community. We are blessed to live in a country that provides a person with great opportunities because of the sacrifices made by many of those around us and those that came before us. By putting a piece of our profits back into the community pie we pay it forward for those around us and those coming after. That's what my religon teaches me and one that I have instilled in my children as well. What you espouse seems to be one of greed and selfishness.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

Great article!

It gets something right that often goes unrecognized in a society drunk on worshipping and aspiring to be rich & famous – namely, that smart people employing a strong STEM education undergird most of our achievements & civilization, often with little material reward.

And any article that would make Ayn Rand’s head explode is a good one, although she may have been ‘almost’ correct in one regard – if scientists & engineers (not only entrepreneurs) ever decide to “shrug Atlas” en masse, we’re in deep trouble.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

FT,

You have equal right to use the roads, benefit from the schools and use any infrastructure that THE PEOPLE have paid for. All of us paid for those things. All of us can use those things. All of us, if we have the incentive, can travel those roads to take our product to market. Because THE PEOPLE have built those things with their money and their sweat, all people have the right to use that infrastructure.

No one has the right to make a businessman pay a "toll", for the use of that infrastructure. He is one of THE PEOPLE. He paid his fair share. What he did that most don't do is to work hard in his business to develop a service or a product. Using that infrastructure makes it possible for him to get his service or product to market. All people have that same opportunity. No bandits are allowed to rob that businessman for travelling on a public highway. That's what many want to do. They won't work, but they'll rob that businessman.

FT
salt lake city, UT

@ Mike Richards
Yes, many don't want to work and sponge the system. And many business's and individuals don't want to pay their fair share and cheat the system (think Clive Bundy). They want to use the things "we the people" paid for and rob the common man who is working just as hard. Business and the wealthy have done better under this current President than they ever have before. Yet, they cry for more.
Our world would be a better place if we had a few more "Sam-wise" around (think BO) and a few less Golums (think Mike Lee).

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Maybe this is what our President was telling us when he said, "If you've got a business—you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen".

Maybe he was right.

But I still think it would have been a pretty boring movie with just Sam and no Frodos...

Monsieur le prof
Sandy, UT

Frodo be darned. Of course we all depend on others who have helped us. That’s obvious. This meandering piece wanders hither and yon and finally reveals itself in the last paragraph: a socialist diatribe against those nasty wealthy people who just don’t pay enough taxes! A hint was given early on in her rationalizing defense of Obama’s stupid “You didn’t build that” remark, which of course he did mean.

The fact that the top “one percenters” pay thirty percent of this nation’s tax bill seems to have eluded her. That and the fact that Mitt Romney’s 13.9 % contribution is far more substantial than my meager 30% tax bite. 50% of Americans pay no taxes at all and are riding on the backs of those wealthy capitalists they envy so much. And the fact that many wealthy people take advantage of the tax code is less a condemnation of them than of the writers of that unwieldy morass of regulations. Most people I know try to take advantage of the deductions that are allowed under the law.

As Churchhill said, “Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth. Socialism is the equal distribution of poverty.”

one old man
Ogden, UT

Has DN become liberal?

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

"ANYONE can do the same. NO ONE deserves any of those profits except the person who labored for them."

Wow Mike right out of the mouth of Marxist.

Sam Walton 62 billion

Walmart "worker/laborer $10 an hour and food stamps. Is that what you were talking about?

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

FT,
When you categorize people and compartmentalize them into your caricatures, like "Businessmen who cheat the system (think Clive Bundy)", etc... When you setup a frictional paradigm and pretend it fits in general (because it's your reality)... you lose some people.

Seeing people as YOUR movie character allegories. More "Sam-wise" (think BO) and a few less Golums (think Mike Lee)... etc... is no way to view the world IMO.

===

Open Minded Mormon,
If you comments aren't getting posted... there's usual a reason (not a DMN conspiracy against you, or some hidden "rules" about saying: "Socialism").

Stay on topic, don't troll or be offensive, and it will get posted. There's no rule against saying "Socialism"... it's the rest of the stuff in there (I suspect).

===

Bottom line...
People are not your stereotypes for them, or the movie character for them. They are real people.

Try to seeing EVERYBODY as real people (not as Ayn Rand, Frodo, Sam, Darth Vader, catnis, Bundy, or Golum).

Books and movies are great... but don't use them to simplify, compartmentalize, stereotype the REAL people in your life.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah
FT,

You have equal right to use the roads, benefit from the schools and use any infrastructure that THE PEOPLE have paid for. All of us paid for those things. All of us can use those things. All of us, if we have the incentive, can travel those roads to take our product to market. Because THE PEOPLE have built those things with their money and their sweat, all people have the right to use that infrastructure.

No one has the right to make a businessman pay a "toll", for the use of that infrastructure. He is one of THE PEOPLE. He paid his fair share.

=========

GE made $60 billion and paid ZERO taxes to use any of that intrasturcture that THE PEOPLE paid for.

Call it whatever you want,
but Corporations need to be paying their fair share of tzxes or "tolls".

Kent C. DeForrest
Provo, UT

FT,

In case you hadn't noticed, Mike and other conservatives get a free pass on all caps. The rest of us get censored if we try to emphasize a word. I once got a comment denied for all-capping the inflammatory word "sixteen."

On the real topic here, anyone who thinks a CEO or entrepreneur should get 400 times as much pay as his employees is hoping for the demise of this fair land. All we have to do is look at where the Reagan revolution with its addiction to voodoo economics has taken us and look at the trajectory to get a sense for where we are headed. And it ain't pretty.

JoeCapitalist2
Orem, UT

So if I invent a new kind of widget that I think everyone would want to buy for $10 each; and I can make a profit selling them if I can get people to build my widgets for $7 each; then I am evil if I sell 100 million of them and get rich?

I am evil if I don't share my profits with each of my workers (just pay them the $7 for each one they make), even thought they didn't invent it, take any risk starting the company, or invest any capital (just their labor) in the venture?

If I pay my workers by the widget and some can build a widget in 1 hour (below minimum wage) while others can build them in 10 minutes each ($42 per hour), then I am evil because my low-skilled workers can't raise their families on their low production wage?

I am evil if I don't give all my profits to the government (just taxes - a huge portion of my profits) because the government built some of the infrastructure (education, roads, communications, etc.) my company uses to get my product to market?

Is that what you are saying???

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