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Comments about ‘At UVU, Elder Oaks sees hope despite 'alarming' religious liberty trends’

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Published: Wednesday, April 16 2014 11:00 p.m. MDT

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lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

I see the anti-1st amendment religion attackers are out in force today

RedWings
CLEARFIELD, UT

Open Minded Mormon:

Not sure where you got from my post that I wanted to make all sin illegal? I was repsonding to another post and discussing the importance of the family and marriage between one man and one woman in LDS doctrine.

Illegal and sin are two different things. In a pluralistic society, we establish laws to protect all regardless of their beliefs. Sin is confined to religion.

I don't pretend to impose my beliefs on others, but others beliefs are being imposed on me at every turn. TV, movies, the news media, public schools have all taken a pro-gay stance without any respect for the beliefs of those who oppose it. How is this different than the left demanding that religious groups not impose their values on society?

Seldom Seen Smith
Orcutt, CA

How is it possible for a person to be fired from there job for supporting/voting for the "wrong" proposition or candidate. Hey, did you know the laday in the corner cube supported the bond to build the dam.

Our country has no cultural norms, America is disintegrating.

digitalcamotim
Council Bluffs, IA

What one sees from the comments of the homosexuals, and their supporters, is a demand for more special rights for homosexuals. If one exercises their First Amendment riht to free speeh and to free eercise of religion by refusing to provide a service or a produt to a homosexual, such a refusing to bake a cake for a so-called marriage by two men or two women, then the homosexuals, and their supporters, demand the intervention of the government to force this reuslt or sanction to refuser for When the LDS Church encouraged its members to support Prop 8 within the constraints of Section 501(c)(3) the homosexuals filed repeated malcious and specious claims demanding the IRS revoke that exemption despite the fact that they do not demand the same regarding Churches which had opposed Prop 8. The homosexual concept of free speech is one which does not tolerate opposing views because, in the open market place of ideas, homosexuals can not witn. Today's so-alled LGBTQ Community is nothin really more than an extension of Hitler' Storm Troopers which were a predominantly homosexual group led by an open homosexual Ernst Roehm.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

Re: Patriot "- Barack Obama and his Marxist - atheist infrastructure are leading this anti-christian crusade ..." I consider myself a Marxist, and let me tell you Obama is NO Marxist. Most of the right wingers here hardly know who Marx was.

Back to topic, while I welcome religious expression in our national debate, I don't think it deserves to be preeminent over other types of expression. For example, it's taken modern biology to give religion the racial facts of life. Religion has been wrong a lot of the time.

Wonder
Provo, UT

I guess I have thicker skin than many of the LDS posters on here. I just don't care all that much that someone doesn't like me if I disagree with them. If that's why you think you've lost your religious freedom, you might want to try turning the other cheek a bit. Relax and stop looking for reasons to get angry at people.

AerilusMaximus
Berryville, VA

@Hutterite

"Religion is being marginalized to the point of ending up where it should be. No longer the automatic ruler of the roost."

Ruler of the roost? Really? Are you kidding me? I don't see religion anywhere in the media, tv, movies, etc. unless it is being mocked in general.

I am aware there have been a handful of religious movies depicting major religiously known people but other than that.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

I’m sad to see a keen mind like that of Elder Oaks squander its energy perpetuating baseless fears that freedom of speech is being diminished. He surely knows that countless new blogs start up every day, including some by LDS members promoting aspects of their faith.

Instead of lamenting that religion is being marginalized in the world, Elder Oaks might give some consideration to how religion is marginalizing itself.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@Let it Go!;

Sharing your "testimony" doesn't offend me. Voting against my rights is 100% offensive though.

Turtle says:

"Prop-8 was all about preventing the destruction of values which have existed for centuries ..."

Utter nonsense. Propd 8 was about removing the right of LGBT Citizens to marry the person of their choice. It had NOTHING to do with "preventing the destruction of values". You actually destroyed the values of equality and liberty for every American Citizen is what you did.

If marriage is only about "producing life" then you'd better darn well prevent infertile and old couples from getting married because, no matter how you spin it, their "lifestyles" cannot produce life either.

@Meckofahess;

Do you care about our point of view? I sincerely doubt you do after reading your many, many Anti-LGBT comments on DN.

@Moontan;

It isn't his opinion that earns him those titles, it is his actions against LGBT equality.

@RedWings;

Your "doctrines" apply to YOU and nobody who isn't a member.

@digitalcamotim;

Equal rights are not "special" rights. We want the same rights you enjoy.

@Craig Clark;

He is an intelligent man with an agenda.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Craig Clark" what evidence do you have that " Elder Oaks squander its energy perpetuating baseless fears that freedom of speech is being diminished." If anything the past several years have shown us that our freedoms are being eroded and that we need to push back.

Free speech is more than just a blog. Take the example of the CEO of Mozilla. He lost his job, and most likely will have a very difficult time getting a new job because he gave $1000 for a group supporting Prop 8 in California.

Also take a look at how communities that are predominately Christian cannot put a nativity out in front of their city hall or in a park.

You may not see it, or you may even want to silence religions, but remember that is how tyrany begins. First they come for your enemies, then they come for you.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@RedShirt;

When you stand up for the LGBT people who are fired every day just for being gay, then your anguish over Mozilla's CEO will not ring so hollow.

"Predominantly Christian" doesn't mean that Christians still get to be government sponsored.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "RanchHand" nobody has voted against your rights.

Per the US Constitution, 10th Ammendment. If it is not in the Constitution then it is up to the states or the people to decide what our rights are. People throughout the US have decided that in their states that Marriage is to be defined as a man and a woman. You still have the right to be married to a person of the opposite gender. If gays really wanted to get support, they should stop seeking to redefine marriage and come up with their own term. They could call it Joining or Welding, or whatever they want as long as it isn't Marriage.

If you recall recent history, the states had an easier time when your ilk wanted civil unions. Why not go that route again and use a term that won't offend most of the nation?

The Caravan Moves On
Enid, OK

Wow.

Reading these comments, it's very clear that the non-religious left is out in force here.

Dont' worry, though, folks. I have it on good authority that there really is no persecution of the religious right, especially Christians, by those on the left. It's all just a false "perception".

How long, Lord, how long?....

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "RanchHand" until you actually exhibit tolerance for views that you oppose, you will never get the compassion you are seeking.

When you stop mocking my religion, your anguish over SSM will not ring so hollow.

You do realize that Utah is one of the most gay tolerant states,and that gay travel magazines tell their readers how friendly Utah is to all people regardless.

Just because a minority are Anti-theists or athiests doesn't mean that they should be government sponsored either. Just because a city celebrates Christmas does not mean that they are establishing a state religion.

abtrumpet
Provo, UT

The major misunderstanding that I see is that people say that "you can't push your religious beliefs on me." Yet, that is exactly what anyone does when they vote. They push their beleifs on others.

kla795
Salt Lake City, Utah

I am no longer LDS. However, all of my extended family is. The message of Elder Oaks would resonate with them strongly. My frustration is that there is a difference between having religious freedom for oneself, and imposing that religion upon everyone else. There is nothing that prevents LDS citizens from worshiping, how, where, or what they may. LDS people are not required to perform marriages for gay members or allow them in the temple. They are not even required to have gay friends. What the LDS community is experiencing (for the first time in Utah since the days of polygamy) is the loss of a strong majority. Utah is having a more difficult time passing laws that subtly require everyone to live by LDS beliefs. Because of this, many LDS leaders feel "attacked" and "censored". What the LDS leaders are beginning to experience now is a balancing of power.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

re:marxist

First of all your conclusion that Obama is not a Marxist is nonsense. Wealth redistibution is one of the CORE pieces of the Communist manifesto as well as Barack's ideology. Go down the line now with the rest of the Obama-vision for America including this "fairness" doctrine which is meant to "equalize" society with no rich and no poor ...sound familiar? Yes again this is vintage Communism.

Second to suggest that religion has "sometime been wrong" is quite broad don't you think? Which religion are you referring to exactly? Science has also been wrong depending on which science you are referring to. Like bad science there is also bad religion which teaches false doctirne. However "true religion" or revealved religion has never been wrong since the source is not man made. Obviously atheists have no concept or belief of revelation or a spiritual self but that doesn't make it disapear - opinion has no power over absolute truth anymore than believing the world was flat made the world flat - it has always been round regardless of opinion. We don't create truth - we discover it.

kla795
Salt Lake City, Utah

@abtrumpet - agreed. However, that's exactly the problem. Our "unalienable rights" shouldn't be up for a vote.

the truth
Holladay, UT

@RanchHand

If you get government out of marriage (you would no longer have to declare to government your are single or marriage or other), and therefore out of your bedroom,

Then you are free to practice any belief you want.

And there would be no need for any government or public definition of marriage.

Of utmost importance, is the freedom of people to publically live there beliefs and conscience including religious beliefs, and influence the making of public laws.

When a segment is seeking to punish those for publically proclaiming their beliefs and conscience, that is not freedom.

When you publically say you disagree with the Mozilla CEO, that is one thing, if you seek punish him for that disagreement that is entirely different thing.

One is exercising freedom of speech, the other is not,but is removing the belief and conscience of those you oppose from the public square.

Freedom of speech and religion is not just about the government but is about we the people.

kla795
Salt Lake City, Utah

@Redshirt: Why does a community need to use a public government space to promote certain religious beliefs (as in showing a nativity scene), when the government is supposed to be a safe haven for people of all religions (or lack thereof)? What's wrong with placing the nativity scenes on church property? There is nothing that is stopping Christians from doing that. I'd be interested in how you would respond if city hall placed Jewish symbols or Muslim symbols on their lawn. I doubt you'd be in favor of it then. Christianity is experiencing a loss of dominance and privilege. It was so commonplace that it wasn't even recognized for the heavy-handed oppression that it was - it was just considered "normal". Now that things are becoming more balanced and Christians (including Mormons) are no longer able to dominate everything, Christians interpret that loss of privilege as "censorship".

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