Phobosanomoly,How is this deal degrading to anyone?
Underpriviledged Ute tribal members get a chance to improve their lives through
a college education. That lifts them and possibly their entire tribe, if they
choose to use that education to benefit their people on the reservation. They
are simply allowing the University to use the name and a symbol. The name is
used respectfully in every way by the University. I see no problem with it. No
different than putting the Rice, Eccles or Huntsman names on facilities at the
Hey complainers, "blackmail"?? Denigrating them because the then
undesirable land they were forced onto turned out to have some valuable
minerals? Sheesh. The U doesn't have to use the name, and the
tribe really does have "earlier rights" (by a few thousand years maybe),
so if the university made the deal, they must see the branding value in it......i.e., no one was holding a gun to their head.
@OldMedian earnings of bachelor’s degree recipients working
full time in 2011 was $56,500, which is $21,100 more than median earnings of
high school graduates. Investing in education is a good return on
investment for taxpayers, both directly with increases in tax revenues and
indirectly with reductions in public expenditures. In this case,
there is no proof tax money is being used to provide these underprivileged kids
the opportunity for a university education. So why are people like
you getting all worked up? Specially considering evidence strongly supports the
conclusion that the long-term benefits of investing in post-secondary education
exceed the costs, not just for society but also for the individual students.
The decision as to whether "Utes" is up to the Indian Tribe. They
decided it was ok. The native Indian system of reservations is a total failure.
What Indians need is property rights. Our social welfare system is working to
destroy us too.
LoBo4 Justice"Our white ancestors came to this land and stripped
the natives of their land and culture, and displaced entire communities. If the
reverse had happened, you can bet we would still be complaining."I don't know, let's ask the Mormons how they handled it.
My first younger, impulsive, and Liberal tendency was to say: "Hey this is
Great!!" And for many of the same "positive" [pro Ute] reasons noted
by many above.However, since I am well over 30, I do have a brain.
And that is when I get angry at the U's President and the rest of the
bureaucrats who are so quick to spend money that isn't theirs.
"It's the Taxpayers, Stupid" who will have to cover the true costs.
And the taxpayer, in effect, gets to pony up more $$ that benefits the athletic
program directly (name use) and indirectly (shifts the cost away from
athletics). It may be legal, but it is certainly immoral. So
pardon me if I'm less than ecstatic about this horrible move. This is
merely ALL the taxpayers subsidizing Ute athletics--not something many of us
want to do.Go ahead and waive their tuition. Just pay for it with
athletic program or private funding like responsible adults would do.
Can the University waive tuition for all tribal members without approval from
the Board of Regents and the Legislature? I'm not saying I'm against
this, it just isn't addressed in the article.
@LoBo4 JusticeTo start your comment off with how our "white
ancestors" stripped the natives of their land and culture. And then to turn
around and call "Ute Tribe" capitalist, is border line oxymoron. Had
out "White Ancestors" not gained the land and developed it for growth.
There would be no capitalism.What some tribes endured, is terrible,
I agree. But for our world to progress it had to happen. This isn't a
game of king of the hill and who who ever gets to the top first gets to claim it
as theirs.Besides, the indian nations get plenty of money and
assistance from government. If you disagree, you need to do a bit of
research.But the names of the Redskins, Utes, Tribe, etc. They are
names, they are not sacred. In this case should Texas cowboys be suing Jerry
Jones for that name? I mean they had it first, they called themselves Cowboys
first. We live in a world of greed and everyone uses it to make
themselves bigger, badder, and better. I wonder if people used some humility
how much better off we would be. Cant wait for responses to this post.
@IDC: please explain exactly where "that has gotten them", you seem to
know. also, do you also feel the Jews have been "treated as victims"?
what exactly do you feel is the best way to address the sovereignty issue?@Mormon Ute: the lease of their name flies in the face of anti-cultural
appropriation efforts and sends confusing messages. no tribes in New Mexico
would do this because it'd be an intrinsically degrading thing to do.@Uncle Rico: "The Utes should be honored that an entity is using
their name." because using a marginalized people's culture for
financial gain should make them feel warm and fuzzy right?@Christopher B: sad that you are certainly privileged enough to not be able to
understand that it's not a handout they need.
Apparently, most of you think that providing MORE underprivileged students
access to a university education is a bad thing. I for one disagree!
I support this agreement.Go UTES!
@Lifelong Ute: "If anyone dared tell them flat out "no" they'd
immediately be branded as bigoted."You mean like how PAC-10 said
"no" to BYU and Cougar Nation starting screaming bigotry?
So, the taxpayer (certainly not the university, as it will just raise tuition
for others) gets held hostage, again, for more money in the form of tuition
waiver foir all members of the tribe or eternity. Tuition waivers? This
constant dipping into the taxpayer till like it was a government
"freebee" has got to stop somewhere. I will never call myself a
"Ute", without thinking that it costs each of us so much to do so.
Tuition waiver is nothing more than a welfare check from the state of Utah. I
think I'd have more pride as a Ute member than that. Thank goodness my
native american heritage is Cherokee.
Loyalty, respect, dignity, win-win, but only if there is a price tag.
That's real love.
Native Americans were dealt with harshly and unjustly - many years ago. Tribes
have been given lots of money, the opportunity to have lucrative casinos on
their land, discounted/free education. Where has that gotten them? Handouts
don't help anyone. If you don't work for something, you don't
appreciate it, and most will abuse it. In my opinion, Native Americans would be
far better off if they hadn't been treated as victims for so long. It
would have been harder for them initially, but they would likely be in a much
better situation now.
Does the Ute tribe really get royalties from gas & oil? If so, that's
great. Does the tribe use that income to fund scholarships to attend university?
If so, I hope they allow at least a portion of those to go to BYU. That way a
healthy liberal/conservative balance of the tribe will be maintained. Should a
state-sponsored school pay for the use of the tribe's name? Let the
taxpayers decide. Is it a major issue? Probably not.
Wow! I'm so surprised at the lack of understanding from some of the Ute
fans on this board. Really, a handout?!?! That's not what this is all
about at all. What the Ute Tribe is asking for is a pittance compared to what
most modern sponsorship agreements require. The U is compensating the Tribe for
the right to use their name. It would be totally fair to provide tuition
waivers to every Ute wanting to attend the U. One thing many of you fail to
acknowledge is that the students will still have to qualify academically. Also,
you need to read the article more closely. The money to pay for the
scholarships will come from the sale of merchandise bearing the drum and feather
logo the Tribe is also allowing the U to continue using. It looks to me like a
pretty inexpensive marketing agreement and it helps some local Native Americans
better themselves at the same time!
The Utes have no right to make this decision. They don't know their own
interests. White academics in Critical Studies departments know better than
Utes what's good for Utes, and it's their dogma that any use of
American Indian names in connection with sports is just horrible.(No, I don't really believe this. But some people clearly do.)
People who make comments about stopping special help for Native American
students need to walk several miles in their moccasins. My Ute cousins have
shared their struggles through the years and they had to overcome much more than
I and my Euro cousins to reach similar educational goals. This is a win-win
So basically, if you pay us we won't be offended. No money, and we will
take offense at you using our name.Real class.
Pony up citizens of Utah. You're going to pay so other can go to college
free. All just in time for the PAC-12 to Stanford you and tell you can't
have the moniker anymore because even though the Ute tribe is alright with it,
other people aren't. Only a matter of time.
Sounds like blackmail to me. We all need to bow before the Society of the
Perpetually Offended and Politically Correct Society of America.
Our white ancestors came to this land and stripped the natives of their land and
culture, and displaced entire communities. If the reverse had happened, you can
bet we would still be complaining. Further, when tribes do assimilate into our
capitalist culture, they are somehow less than the rest of us capitalists for
doing so. I don't get it. It is their name; they struck a deal. That is
capitalism at work. Deserving students of all colors and ethnicities exist in
this state--each and every one of them deserves an opportunity to attain a
higher education. Good for the Utes for looking out for their young. I wish the
white power structure cared as much about educating their deserving students as
the Utes do.
They want to make sure the Ute Tribal members who want to go to the U can afford
it. In the past year the Ute tribe received a check for 41 million
dollars. And that is just for the drilling permit fees. The oil royalties are
ongoing and add up to millions also. With fewer than 1500 total tribal members,
I'd say they have plenty of money if education was truly a high priority.
Chris B you nailed it. I personally am so tired of these minority's
constantly whining. Get off your hinders opportunity awaits you. Put your hands
in your pockets and quit reaching for handouts.
I'm surprised at all the free market capitalists here who object to a
corporate entity commodifying and trademarking a name and a brand. Seems out of
character, except for the white tribal dimension.
I'm glad everything was handled exactly how it should have been. Both
sides demonstrated a lot of respect and class, and both sides came out with a
@Girlse StateApparently, the use of the names is only offensive if
the price paid for such use isn't high enough.
For some reason, "Our name is high and honorable...This is how much
we'll sell it for" seems a little, well, contradictory...
Let's hear from the rivals down the road in Provo. Class move by a great
institution The University of Utah. On the athletic field it's great to
battle and I hope we beat you every time we play. But hats off to you for
making the state of Utah proud as a state owned school representing us well.
Does anyone know if they'll be eligible to use the featherhead jerseys that
leaked a little while ago now? That would be way cool.
I thought it was the Utah Pac 12ers. Hmm. I guess you learn something
everyday.What are all of those banners saying pac 12 flying around
Wonderful news! Glad to see such a great relationship between the school and
the tribe. The Ute tribe deserves a great deal like this, and the University,
which has long shown great respect for the tribe, has earned the ability to keep
using the logo and name. Win win. I love the point from one of the Utes that
were it not for the affiliation with the U, no one would know about the Utes.
Go Utes (the school AND the tribe). So glad to see some good sense
brought to this situation.
@ChrisB - you need to learn some tact. Sometimes you have valid points but
people get put off by your approach. As a lifelong Ute and lifelong member of
this state, I just don't like the idea of the name continually being held
over our heads forever. 10 years from now will they be able to come back and
demand more? Is it just an endless "get what we want" card? If anyone dared tell them flat out "no" they'd immediately be
branded as bigoted.
This doesn't really make sense with all we've been hearing about the
use of such names as offensive to the tribes.
I don't take quite the harsh approach as Chris, but I do wish every student
earned their way into the school and every spot given to someone for just being
an Indian takes away from a potentially more deserving student who isn't an
At least Chris didn't talk about the prestige of the pac 12 before
mentioning the Utes. Sounds like a good agreement and one that will ensure that
any member of the Ute tribe that wants to attend college will be able to. Now if the sports teams of the university could just live up to the
might Ute name...
motorbike, amen. I second President Pershing's words:"The
Ute name is at the core of the cultural identity of the the Tribe and its
members... An educated understanding of the tribal Utes -- as well as other
native peoples in this region -- is fundamental to an informed history of our
state. From that acknowledgement comes authentic and respectful fan behavior.
'Go Utes' is not simply distinctive shorthand for 'Utah.' It
is a much-loved phrase that at its best recognizes -- and values -- the richness
of Ute Indian history and heritage."
Wow Chris B, thanks for that observation.The Utes should be honored
that an entity is using their name. Receiving "resources" has nothing to
do with honor. It's simply an issue of right and wrong.