Comments about ‘Letter: Disagreement vs. hate’

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Published: Tuesday, April 15 2014 5:11 p.m. MDT

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2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

It's hard to be consistent when you are comparing apples to oranges.

The Dixie Chicks didn't suffer retaliation from their company (their managers). Their label didn't retaliate against them. Their FANS were offended and quit buying their records. They weren't forced to resign their jobs. They just lost some fans.

I think it's kinda natural for fans to loose interest and stop buying their records if they find them offensive. Corporate retaliation is a different thing.

The duck dynasty guy still had the support of the shows fans... the shows network shut them down.

The guy at Mosilla was shutdown by the corporate leaders (not his fans). I'm a fan. I didn't want him to resign, but his company forced him to resign.

The difference...
Dixie Chicks lost fan support.

DD and Mosilla guy still had strong fan support but were run out by some corporate people who didn't like their politics.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@2bits
For Duck Dynasty yes, but for Mozilla there was plenty of fan outrage and they were stuck in that situation Koman was a couple years ago where one side was going to hate them no matter what they picked.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

I can relate to this

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I am conservative but not very religious, and certainly not a member of the predominant religion.

The "tolerant" left has accused me and other conservatives of being bigots or racists simply for disagreeing with people.

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If someone disagrees with barack they are a racist

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If I agree with a view held my many religious people I've been accused of being controlled by my religion(which is funny because I'm not LDS but have been accused of having "my" lds church control me)

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I admit I do like to remind people here in Utah though of what their church leaders(who according to them speak for God) have said on different issues.

Included in that is I like knowing Mormon prophet Monson(who speaks for God) and Pope Francis(speaks for God according to Catholics) and myself agree on the gay "marriage" issue.

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I have always shown 100% respect for other people's views, even when the "tolerant" left does not reciprocate.

Its "do as I say not as I do" when it comes to the left and their "tolerance"

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But I rise above that and follow the Savior. Always have, always will.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

2 Bits... when radio stations refuse to play them, when venues refuse to host them.... yes, it is very much the same thing. It is restraint of trade. It is denying someone the ability to earn an income. To pretend it is otherwise isn't being honest.

That said..... I too firmly believe as a consumer, that if I don't approve of someone or their policies, I do not feel that I should be forced to support them. But this has become an almost impossible quest. I don't approve of MTVs programming, but whether it be cable or satellite, some of my money is funneled to that station. We should be able to vote with our pocketbooks if an organization behaves badly. But somewhere in there is a gray line when if we held true to this litmus test, we would not be able to do business with many.

I like this opinion piece. You do see venom from one side to the other. You do sense that conservatives see liberals as a lower class of people, and visa-versa. Some of my best friends, I disagree with on something. Disagreeing should not lead to hate.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

We should be able to vote with our pocketbooks if an organization behaves badly.

========

Agreed.

Which is why I do not shop at WalMart.

The irony is those who decry a rise in minimum wage as "Socialism",

Yet, Walmart is subsidized by the U.S. Government via Food Stamps and Social Programs for it's employees,
and buys nearly everything from "Communists" it China.
And Those who hate Socialism and Communism shop their for Cheaper products sining the praises of Capitalism.

Hemlock
Salt Lake City, UT

People vote with their feet. They avoid the DIxie Chicks because the DCs inappropriately mixed entertainment with politics and suffered the consequences. Watching Sean Penn it is difficult to separate his performances from his lunatic left politics. While I don't demand acceptance of my philosophy, there is a point where one finds it difficult to separate an individual's talents (sports, entertainment, politics) from their persona.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Try being a Liberal or Democrat Mormon."

I did. For years. Intense cognitive dissonance and the rumblings of my conscience gradually and finally pushed me to abandon liberalism. There are just too many lies and contradictions liberals are expected to embrace.

I've been assured by Church leaders I can be a Democrat and still be a good Mormon, though I've engaged in a mostly vain search for many years for a Democrat my conscience will permit me to support, politically.

But, interestingly, I never felt the slightest twinge of hate from fellow Church members because of those thoroughly discredited liberal views. Disagreement, amazement, a sense of irony, even pity? Sure.

But hate? Never. That, I never experienced from fellow Mormons until I admitted to some, not all of course, but to several liberal friends, my doubts about liberal orthodoxy.

Makes me wonder if politics fully explains your experience.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

LDS Liberal,
You seem to be an "LDS judger"...

I have lots of "Liberal" friends and neighbors. None as judgmental as the liberals on these pages... Especially not as judgmental of other people that share their faith. They have their opinions, and don't mind if others don't agree.

You've said some pretty judgmental things about the people in your Ward over the years. You may want to try not judging them... and posting about them, and what you think about them, and what stereotypes you think they fit...

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There are some similarities between the Dixie Chicks situation and the Mosilla guy (and some differences). The difference is as I pointed out that one was "bottom-up" (from their fans) while the other was "top-down" (from company management that couldn't tolerate his donation).

The similarity is the intolerance.

DC Fans didn't tolerate Dixie Chicks expressing their hate for our President very well. And Mozilla management didn't tolerate his $1000 political donation very well.

So there are similarities AND differences.

I think we can agree that we should ALL be more tolerant of people with views that differ from our own (political or other views...

GaryO
Virginia Beach, VA

Hey Chris B - The tolerant left is intolerant of bigots.

We tolerant Moderates don't tolerate bigots either.

Get used to it.

And isn't it interesting that your hero Rush Limbaugh is intolerant of the Pope and how "Marxist" he sounds.

In your opinion, does Rush Limbaugh speak for God? . . . Or something better?

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

We need to find ways to compliment people with whom we disagree. We need good will. The rancor in our public discourse hurts. I try to find ways to compliment, though I can't manage it with the right wing talk show guys who spill nothing by hate for Obama, and leftists like me.

Bob K
portland, OR

Let's get it correct:

The man HAD to resign from Mozilla, not "because he made a small donation", but because he backed a cause that most of the employees found to be hateful and an attempt by the catholic and mormon religions to control secular people.

He refused to say that Prop 8 was wrong -- over 70% of Californians, and more like 85% in the area where Moxilla is located find support of Prop 8 to be repugnant and hateful.

You cannot lead if the employees do not trust you

And you cannot sit in Utah and speak for Californians -- that has been tried.

freedomingood
provo, Utah

Jane Fonda says that conservatives can hold a grudge for a long time.

Businessmen have been using the fake family man, country christian image to their benefit for a long time. Suddenly it's not always working in their favor when it includes bigotry. Too bad.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

So let me get this straight...

Repubs can bash the traitorous Dixie Chicks for speaking out against Bush's illegal wars?
But no one can speak out against racism and bigotry demonstrated against poor minorities and homosexuals?

Ok. Got it.

Gotta love this double standard for the 1st Amendment!

Daniel L.
Murray, UT

I agree with this article. I think the problem is we see peoples motivation for their actions through our own lens. When we accuse people of hate, it's because we feel hate towards them. When we accuse some one of being bigoted, we may be bigoted in our own judgement.

10CC
Bountiful, UT

The wording is a little strong sometimes, but all of these are examples of simple boycotts.

The Dixie Chicks got boycotted by fans who disapproved of their remarks. "Just because you're a successful music artist doesn't mean I have to agree with your political views".

Eich and Mozilla were in the process of being boycotted by OK Cupid, and others on the Internet.

Rosa Parks started a boycott of a bus company, and played an instrumental role in a great positive change for our nation.

In the 80s when I was in college we pushed for divestiture (ie, boycotting) companies that did business with South Africa, pressure that played a part in ending Apartheid.

I hear conservatives (and others) all the time talk about boycotting this movie star or that music artist because they disagree with their political views or lifestyles, or whatever.

Parents "boycott" children who don't do as the parents desire, eg, "I'm cutting you out of the will if you don't go to rehab".

I guess I just don't see what the problem is.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@Bob K,
Let's get it correct...

So you're going to be OK if companies with Republican workers force any Democrats in their leadership to resign if it's discovered they donated to any causes they don't like??

You're going to support forcing Democrat CEOs to resign if it's discovered they donated a little to Planned Parenthood (and the employees don't like or trust people who support aborting babies)?

You're going to support running people out if they find you donated to a political campaign they didn't like... right?

As long as you're planning on being consistent... and not flip when it starts happening to your side...

Remember... You cannot lead if the employees do not trust you... right? What if they don't trust you because you voted for Obama??

===

Let's get it correct... You are OK with it going both ways... right?

anotherview
SLO, CA

"Ellen DeGeneres uses the line, “My haters are my motivators.” The fallacy in this perspective is the assumption that if we disagree with people, we must hate them."

I'm pretty sure Ellen, like most other celebrities truly get hate mail. Not just people who disagree with them but people who really wish them harm.

I admit i've been guilty of saying that I hate Rush Limbaugh. But actually, i don't know him as a person, but i truly hate his radio persona. And it isn't that i hate his radio persona because he is conservative. I hate it because he has trashed every demographic (except white conservative men) and he speaks to the lowest level of human decency. He's like a kid who never grew up, never learned manners, never grew in intellect.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

How many of you who are outraged about the CEO of Mozilla losing his position are equally outraged about the LGBT men and women who have lost their positions simply for being gay?

Where is the outrage?

It isn't just "disagreement" that leads people to vote to deny equality to others.

It isn't just "disagreement" that leads people to beat up an LGBT couple simply for being together in public.

It isn't just "disagreement" that leads people to shoot at a group of people in front of a synagog.

It is bigotry and much of that bigotry stems from hate. Like it or not, reading the comments by many so-called "religious" people on the DN pages; one walks away with the feeling that these people really hate people who are different.

freedomingood
provo, Utah

The great thing about social media influencing buying decisions with boycotts is that is the one thing our corporate owned government won't ignore. The corporations themselves won't ignore issues that affect their profits. The only vote left in America is the almighty dollar because we know the politicians votes are paid for.

The original Boston T-party was a boycott of English tea with some illegal shenanigans thrown in with the theft and destruction of private property.

Burn your CD's if you want, Tweet how much you don't like a CEO. It's fine.It's ok to boycott whatever and whomever you want. You can disagree and buy more chicken sandwiches if you want to support them. It's a whole lot better than violence.

samhill
Salt Lake City, UT

My central premise in this general debate is that you can be completely intolerant of what someone believes and yet not only tolerate but love the person believing it.

I think that is precisely how God, our Father in Heaven, feels about each and every one of his children. That is, everyone on Earth, and, according to some people, an innumerable bunch of other planets.

I think that is also the ostensible point of principles and practices in our legal and judicial system that are meant to encourage enforcement of the law with complete equity to each party in a dispute regardless of factors that are meant to be irrelevant, such as race, gender, political/religious affiliation, etc.

Of course, sadly, we humans are not rational and dispassionate enough to meet that ideal all the time. Some almost never do.

Nevertheless, it is a vitally important goal to strive for if we want to have any hope of maintaining our best-in-history, democratically oriented, society. Something for which I am heartily rooting.

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