@DSB 9:08 p.m. April 15, 2014What is human life? Is it the physical
body, or is it the spirit that inhabits the body and motivates it? To me (as
confirmed by the sealing requirements of my church) human life is the presence
of a human spirit in the body, which enters the body at birth and leaves the
body at death regardless whether there is a body with operating biological
functions at other times (i.e., during gestation and when the body functions
after there is brain death). Without the presence of the human spirit, a body
is just a physical construct and is not "human life." A full term human
fetus is a body waiting for a human spirit to take up residence, shown by there
being a birth and the breath of life being drawn. That is accepting reality,
not being "without natural affection."
Thank you Sharrona for that beautiful verse. While we're using scriptures,
I think anyone who considers that a full term unborn baby is not a human life
suffers from the condition described by Paul to Timothy as "without natural
affection." From such turn away.
LDS Liberal: The Bible disagrees with you.“ You made all the
delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother’s womb.
Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is
marvelous—how well I know it. You watched me as I was being formed in
utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me
before I was born You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was
recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had
passed.”(Psalm 139: 13-16 NLT).the spirit shall return unto
God who gave it (Ecl 12:7
to LDS liberal: I will agree that abortion, especially in the case where
the fetus would not be viable outside the womb, is not quite as bad as regular
murder. But it is still bad. D&C 59:6 says "Thou shalt love thy neighbor
as thyself. Thou shalt not steal; neither commit adultery, nor kill, nor do
anything like unto it." I think abortion is "anything like unto
it."Having said that, there may be legitimate reasons for
abortion, especially the life of the mother. Even in cases of rape or incest,
which might be a reason for it, it should be done only after much thought and
soul searching. BTW we had a pregnancy 4 years ago that we knew wasn't
going to end well; the baby might miscarry, might die shortly after birth, or
might die early in childhood, and would be disabled. The drs. offered abortion
to us, we said no, and our baby lived 2 days. But, now she is ours forever. We
are so glad we had her that short time.
If she could hide the corpses, so could someone else. wait for the dna results
@RGBuena Vista, VA"Breath of Life"BTW --
The LDS Church allows abortions for;Rape, Incest, Life of Woman,
viability of the fetus...How can it possilbe be MURDER, if the LDS
allows for it under certain cicumstances?Are you implying the LDS Church
condones murder?I disagree with you, and many others.
To dmcvey: “legal and safe abortion” Safe for whom? Certainly not
safe for the baby. Legal? OK, it is legal. Slavery was once legal in the US and
is still legal in other parts of the world. Does this make it right?
Prostitution is also legal in places. But not right.To airnaut:
“Abortion is the terminaltion of a pregnancy before viability of the fetus
in all 50 States.” Actually many late term abortions, some of which are
legal, occur AFTER viability of the fetus. to Open Minded Mormon: to
be more precise, we do only child to parent sealing for those born and then die.
We do NOT do any other temple work for them. They do not need baptism nor
endowment. Also, I agree with LetsDebate's comments about your comment.
No that it matters, but I was wondering if she was ever a member of the church?
I am horrified by this story and it breaks my heart. That poor family! I also
wonder how the husband was not aware of ALL of these pregnancies that went to
full term. It'll be interesting to see if he truly was the father of all
of them after the DNA results come back.
This story has nothing to do with abortion. Abortion is not
murder. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy, where the only thing
terminated is a body-under-construction which will house a human spirit when the
pregnancy is completed and that spirit enters the body at birth and becomes a
baby. Aborftion is wrong, and selfish in that it denies a waiting spirit a body
that spirit would inhabit during his/her mortal life. Abortion does not,
however, terminate a human life.This case is murder, pure and
simple. Living, breathing human beings were killed. The woman admits she
killed her living babies shortly after their live births. That is
unconscionable, especially when the Safe Haven law gave her a resource where she
should place the babies with no liability to her. I hope she receives the full
penalty of the law for what she did.
This so sad. I can't imagine why a mother would feel so desperate and
afraid that she would resort to such an awful means of ridding herself of her
babies. I truly hope that over time those affected by this tragedy can forgive
her. While she is incarcerated perhaps she will get the psychiatric help needed
so that she will become mentally more stable. Those 7 sweet angels are now with
a loving Heavenly Father and are safe from any harm.
4th and last commentre:Kora"The fact that he has referred to
babies already born as being fetuses,"Where?/Source? "The laws Obama opposed said nothing about protections for an unborn
previable"perhaps not specifically, but as any good lawyer knows,
broad general statements can be interpreted in a variety of ways. (An
anencephalic baby could be born with a heartbeat but basically no brain). "partial birth"Are we now changing the topic? not a
medical term (as you well know) "most liberals
support" Source?/data? "Partial birth abortions are
performed on infants who are past the age of viability of 24 weeks."Source? "viability" (there are infants with anencephaly,
intrauterine death or other incompatible-with-life issues which results in the
mother choosing to terminate the pregnancy rather than waiting until full-term).
The Guttmacher Institute, (abortion-rights group conducts surveys of the
nation's abortion doctors), about 15,000 abortions were performed in the
year 2000 on women 20 weeks or more along in their pregnancies; the vast
majority were between the 20th and 24th week. Of those, only about 2,200 D&X
(partial birth)abortions were performed. "There has never been a
verifiable case"Never? Source?
I can't figure out how some of the other people on here conclude that I am
pro abortion because of my earlier comment.
@earthquakejake:"Babies don't just disappear. Someone else in the
family had to have been involved."Perhaps the lady self aborted.
Which would be entirely legal. Even partial-birth abortion is legal, if I
understand correctly. Go figure.
anotherview- The laws Obama opposed said nothing about protections for an unborn
previable fetus. The fact that he has referred to babies already born as being
fetuses, tells you something. He was just trying to defend the indefensible. Obama will support every form of abortion and defend infanticide in the name
of protecting abortion rights.As a physician, there is no literature
available that shows any benefit to a partial birth abortion, which most
liberals support. There has never been a verifiable case where a woman has been
protected by delivering the entire baby except the head, and killing the baby
before delivery is complete versus delivering the entire baby alive. Partial
birth abortipns are performed on infants who are past the age of viability of 24
weeks. To try and defend this practice in the name of a woman's health is
despicable and an outright lie.
moderators is this now acceptable? re:KoraObama opposed the
Illinois bill because he viewed it as a backdoor to making abortion illegal. He
supported the existing Illinois law, as I stated earlier, which requires Drs. to
provide medical care. He explained his concerns in a speech stating:
"whenever we define a PREVIABLE fetus as a person that is protected by the
equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution....it would
essentially bar abortions." re:TriciaCTObama was
talking about comprehensive sex education vs. abstinence only education--not
abortion. "I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want
them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give
them information." Yes, a conservative media personality told
his listeners (you?) John Holdren proposed putting sterilants in water and
forced abortions--and politifact gave it a "pants on fire" rating,
meaning the statement was not true and was a ridiculous claim. Emanuel said the Lives system was not meant to apply to health care in
general, but only to a situation where "we don't have enough organs for
everybody who needs a transplant." You need more credible
@NeilT - you must be extremely easily influenced to judgment if you think this
gives the entire state of Utah a very negative image. Did the recent killings
at Fort Hood give a very negative impression of all servicemen, or all people
from Texas? Did the Boston Marathon bombers give you a very negative impression
of everyone from Massachusetts? Did the kidnappings and torturing of 3 women in
Cleveland for over a decade give you a very negative impression of everyone from
Ohio? Good grief, I'm from Ohio and Utah, and currently live in Pleasant
Grove. I wouldn't think any reasonable person in the world thinks this
disturbed woman represents me, Pleasant Grove, or Utah.
Justification of killing a completely viable baby two minutes before birth, but
considering it murder two minutes later, is not only illogical but
representative of morally bankrupt rationalization and depravity. To
rationalize it based on temple work is not open minded, but pretty blatantly
evil thinking and worthy of the highest condemnation of a supposedly faithful
LDS person. I can't even imagine a person with any morality placing that
little value on the life of an unborn but fully formed and viable baby.
It's either unconscionably evil or off-the-charts disturbed, as this woman
surely is.And yes, late term abortions do happen, regardless of
D4inSLC's head in the sand. It requires a medical justification, but very
little proof of that medical reason in many areas, so with a wink-wink, a
"medical justification" is created and an abortion can be performed for
reasons of convenience. They're not the norm, because even most normal
abortion supporters don't have that level of depraved indifference to human
life, but it does occur.
@Whatsnu;In the womb you require health care and protection. Out of the womb, two minutes later, it's on it's own.
Re "Anotherview." This is from Jill Stanek, Illinois RN, from 2008:"Obama opposed SB1663 arguing he had 'confidence' that the
abortionist, who was invested in attempting to kill the child pre-delivery;
would not mind revealing his or her botch by calling a 2nd physician to ensure
the child was given proper medical attention and revived if possible."Obama thought it remarkable to suspect an abortionist of having a
subjective medical opinion about his new second patient. It didn't occur to
Obama that the abortionist might also be invested in seeing the baby dead to
preclude malpractice lawsuits down the road if the baby were found not to have
pre-birth diagnosed defects, an overriding reason for these late-term induced
labor abortions."But Obama's most telling statement from
the clip was to say this bill 'is really designed simply to burden the
original decision of the woman and the physician to induce labor and perform an
abortion.'"In other words, if a baby were to survive his or
her abortion, the death plan marked out for this child should be carried out
Life ends when the heart quits beating. It starts when the heart begins
beating.The excuse of "end of pregnancy", doesn't
change what it is. Manipulation of words don't cut it.Unborn
babies react to the pain of being aborted. It's a fact.It's the taking of life.
I keep reading the "a few minutes after" comments. I thought the
Supreme court ruled in 1973 that a woman's right to an abortion is not
absolute and that the states can and have banned "late term abortions"
(those after fetal viability. Too much Fox news folks! Bottom line, this
person did not abort those babies. She murdered them after they were born.
To BYUalum...I totally agree with your comment...when I read this I was sick
inside and cried. I do not know how a human being could do that .....this is
anotherview- Obama did oppose protections in Illinois. He stated he was opposed
to the following language in the Bill: “A live child born as a result of
an abortion shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate
protection under the law.”What is offensive or controversial
about giving a live child immediate protections.As reported in the
Washington Post, "Obama voted against the new bill, which happened to be an
almost exact replica — almost to the word — of a federal Born-Alive
Infants Protection Act that passed in 2002". Why did he vote against it? He
has even referred to a baby outside the womb as a fetus.airnaut- I
think you are unfamiliar with age of viability and when women give birth. A baby
is considered viable at 23-24 weeks gestation. A full term delivery occurs at
39-40 weeks gestation. Many babies are aborted in that 16 week period of
viability but before birth. So what do you call the killing of a baby in that 16
week period? Many abortion supporters call it a legitimate termination of a
pregnancy and it is legal in many states.
I am not shocked at all by this story. I am extremely saddened that a mother
would do this but look at America today. Look at the world. Millions of babies
are brutally murdered every year and done so legally. I find it nauseating that
it is considered legal to murder a baby only because it is still in the womb and
has not breathed a breath of air when a few minutes later the baby is born and
considered a full human with all rights pertaining thereto. This is
only an indication of the depravity of our times. How can we expect people to
honor and respect life when we have laws that encourage and support wholesale
murder of the most innocent of our society.
@WhatsnuSandy, UTIn the womb, you're fine with killing a
baby.Out of the womb, two minutes later, it's murder.This is the kind of irrational thinking those who support "choice"
must rationalize in order to justify killing an unborn baby.2:15
p.m. April 14, 2014========== In the womb, we don't
do Temple Work.Out of the womb, two minutes later, we DO do Temple
Work.This is the kind of irrational thinking of those who can not
differentiate one from the other.
@MechofussWhat is occurring today is not any different than the days of
the prophets you idolize. The only difference is the media.
Alas, as several commentators have alluded to our world has evolved into one of
great horrors.But many of our national law makers and leaders have turned their
backs on morality now for many years. Things that were once viewed as
unacceptable are now becoming common place. As the behavior of the citizens of
this nation continues to become increasingly distant from the standards of
morality and decency, we will only see more saddness and calamity. The profecies
of The Book of Mormon and the Bible witten many centuries ago described the
wickedness of our day and foretold the calamaties (earthquakes, droughts,
natural disasters) which we are now seeing. Unfortunately, those who deny God
and his teachings apparently do not recognize the consequences associated with
the abandonment of his laws.
anotherviewIn the womb, you're fine with killing a baby.Out of the womb, two minutes later, it's murder.This is
the kind of irrational thinking those who support "choice" must
rationalize in order to justify killing an unborn baby.The point is,
it's not a choice, it's a person.
My prayers are with her daughters. They are also going to suffer the stigma of
this being found in their home that they had no idea about being there or their
Re:KoraYou are wrong.Long before Obama was a State Senator,
since 1975, has had Illinois a law requiring:" if an abortion is
performed when the fetus is deemed to be viable, the doctor must:Choose the method of abortion least likely to harm the fetus.Have in
attendance a second doctor who can immediately take over care of the child if
it's born alive.Use every available means to keep any born-alive
child living and healthy."(Factcheck)Senator Obama supported the
existing law requiring Drs. intervention as detailed above. Furthermore:In 2002, the 107th U.S. Congress passed the Born-Alive
Infants Protection Act of 2001. This law established personhood for all infants
who are born “at any stage of development” who breathe, have a
heartbeat, or “definite movement of voluntary muscles,” regardless
of whether the birth was due to labor or induced abortion.
I concur with earlier comments this is a case of "do it yourself
abortion". Same as the newborn strangled and thrown in the dumpster. In
ancients times newborns were tossed in the fires of idols and condemned to
death. And I also ask the question of how can this be disgusting and sniping the
spinal cord of an aborted child not.
Oh, for crying out loud -- Some will always use a horrible story to suit
and push their own agendas...Abortion is the terminaltion of a
pregnancy before viability of the fetus in all 50 States.Murder is the
termination of a human being AFTER they are born.BIG difference.Stay "ON topic".
I think it's disturbing that people would equate what this obviously
mentally unstable woman did with legal and safe abortion. If this woman had
adequate mental healthcare this might have been avoidable.
Wow. May all the babies RIP.
This type of behavior is so far outside of what would be considered
"normal" behavior, regardless of a person's views on abortion or
giving up the baby for adoption, this lady will shortly be diagnosed with some
type of mental illness. My shot-in-the-dark... Postpartum Depression (severe)
with Psychotic features, rule out Adjustment Disorder, Borderline Personality
Disorder, Bipolar Disorder.
This shows why mental health care and counseling for pregnatn women is so
important. U-tar. It's not called abortion to kill a living
I too thought of the abortion connection. However, this is even worse than that
horrific travesty in our nation. This apparently soulless woman--or at least
split personality, as she was reported to be a good babysitter--can be likened
to the evil Kermit Gosnell, the ice-cold, murderous abortionist who was finally
convicted last year.This sick story is so difficult to understand,
and that it would take place in Utah makes it all the more incomprehensible.
Anotherview- Actually you are incorrect about being required to provide life
saving measures to a baby born alive. There are many states that don't
require life saving measures for a baby born alive during an attempted abortion.
President Obama, when he was a State Senator in Illinois opposed a law in
Illinois that would require life saving measures to be performed if a baby
survived an abortion. Many abortion rights advocates support letting a baby who
survives an abortion to die outside the womb. They oppose the requirement to
perform neonatal resuscitation unless the mom demands it. The idea that a baby
could be born alive and allowed to die without intervention is sick as well, but
supported by many liberal groups.
Does it get and weirder than this?
@D4inSLCFirst, I'm not speculating on anything. A reputable
news source is reporting that she was an alcohol abuser.Second, you
are implying that all alcohol use is the result of mental illness. I bet there
are some drinkers here who would take issue what that implication.To
reiterate from my original post, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me
what tangible benefits alcohol and illegal drug use bring that you can't
I am shocked that so many libs are actually sickened by this ......The hypocrisy
from the left has no bounds. What this women did is no different than is being
done everyday in planned parenthood and liberal hospitals throughout the
USA.....this is just another form of abortion!
What a sad story, if her husband and family knew she was pregnant, why
didn't they ask questions? This is the saddest story I have read in my
lifetime. It is hard to believe that this could happen without someone knowing
that she had been expecting a baby.
And I am unable to have a second child. This hurts beyond words.
This was not some small hallow in Appalachia or a third world country. It makes
me really question the responsible parents in the case as to why birth control
or sterilization was not used instead of the terrible end we see here.
Shameful, and criminal.
I think silligirl from San Antonion misunderstood material from the article.
The woman broke the law by killing the babies. The Safe Haven Law was not used
by the Huntsman woman suspect. Rather, the article discussed that Law to show
that Huntsman had a viable alternative to helping the babies even if she
didn't want to raise the baby herself.
This was not abortion, it was murder.Abortion is termination of a
pregnancy. Killing an infant after delivery is murder.Six of the
seven babies were born alive.Every Dr. In the U.S. would be
ethically required to administer life-saving measures to a baby born alive.
And the anti-choice folks immediately jump on this for their political gain. The one thing about predictability is, well, it's predictable.
I think we are all in shock at this tragic story. This article is an alarm to
society reminding us of the sanctity of human life. Society has selfishly and
in self-denial set a double standard. If this mother had chosen to abort her
children--the same result would have taken place--a mother killed six of her
children over a ten year period. Society chooses to accept the abortion option
as being appropriate but recognizes that killing the baby a few months later is
a heinous crime. We have to stand up for those who cannot stand up for
themselves and speak out for the sanctity of human life.
Yet, we continue to allow abortions.Where is the news coverage on
all of those murders?
@Frankenberry"He'll tell how this poor woman is a victim of
blah, blah, blah and is really not responsible for any of this horror. It's
her ex-husband's fault. Or maybe her 8th grade English teacher. Can't
wait to see how it plays out."....and your psychiatric training
came from where? You did your residency at what facility? Your published works
include what? Your medical training was obtained where? You know
nothing of the case, you haven't examined the murderer, you haven't
spoken to her doctor. Your expertise in psychosis I'm assuming is
non-existent. I'm not excusing this woman by any means, but she obviously
is mentally ill. Why she didn't receive mental health treatment over the
past decade only those close to her will know.
Why all the posts on abortion? Seems to be off topic and not related to the
story at hand.
Mentally ill people do irrational things. I don't know why everyone here
keeps trying to place a rational reason for such an irrational action.
Psychosis is a horrible thing and you'll never be able to rationally
I don't understand how a mother can abort their infant. This is murder.
For Steve in Hanford California, This is going on your community, so not so
This kind of thing goes on every day all over the world, it's called
Abortion. Is it any wonder our world is so messed up.
That's messed up.
Happy Valley not so happy any more.
Nan BW beat me to the punch, but today, babies are aborted that would be able to
live outside the womb, and this is called "female reproductive health."
And if you protest these abortions, you are waging a "war on women." But
that is really not much different than this. Anyone horrified by this incident
ought to be horrified by those abortions, and worse, horrified that society is
so oblivious to it.
This story goes to show the importance of cleaning out your garage.
this is beyond weird, no one knew she was pregnant 7 times? We are our
brother's keeper and I think there is much more to this story than we are
Sorry, but can someone please explain to me why we’re shocked and outraged
by this mother’s actions? We’re a nation that allows and celebrates
a mothers the “right” to murder her unborn baby in the most brutal
ways imaginable. The end result of these abortions is so ghastly; DN would
never allow me to post pictures of the aftermath. Yet somehow we’re
shocked and outraged by what this mother did?Where’s the shock
and outrage at the other million babies who’ve had their lives snuffed out
by their mothers through the barbaric practice of abortion? Sadly, some here
will not be able to make the connection. We celebrate the deaths of some
babies, and mourn others. We are a sick society.
I am sitting here right now just sick to my stomach. I am so grateful that I am
not her judge. Only God really knows what happened and Why. It is a shame though
because there are so many Women out there that would love to be a mommy. My
daughter who is now 40 years old is one of them. She would have loved to of been
a mom and she would have been a great mother at that. But here we have a woman
who killed seven little infants and for what reason. Truly a mystery
Babies don't just disappear. Someone else in the family had to have been
@Alpiner:"If someone went into a public place then shot and killed
seven people they would be a mass murderer."Some are known to
have aborted as many. What of them?
I fear the saddest part of this story hasn't been written yet. Some sharp,
soulless lawyer will step in and paint a picture of abuse, neglect, drug use,
social denial. He'll tell how this poor woman is a victim of blah, blah,
blah and is really not responsible for any of this horror. It's her
ex-husband's fault. Or maybe her 8th grade English teacher. Can't wait
to see how it plays out.
This law needs to change ASAP!!! what's happened to these babies is
sickening and because of this law this sick person will get away with it. If the
father had rights this never would have happened. Not with these many deaths! Oh
my heck this is so sickening. Poor infants never never never had a chance ALL
BECAUSE OF THIS DUMB LAW AND BECAUSE OF THIS sick woman...
No one can hide anything from God. You can bury whatever you want, but it is
never hidden. The real question, is that if you have something like this to
hide... what put you in that position in the first place. Why anyone would do
this, under any circumstance, is something I simply can't understand.
Insanity doesn't even begin to cover this. It's evil.
It seems to me that serious mental illness is part of the tragic circumstances.
However, had she had abortions, she would not be in custody. We do live in an
incredibly mixed up world, and much of it has to do with mental problems, lack
of family stability and a host of problems that point to disobedience of moral
laws. It is so sad. It is true that is what would appear to be her best option
would have been giving up babies for adoption. I can honestly say I have had an
experience with that, and it was for the best.
How did the "EX-Husband" not know she was pregnant SIX TIMES??Pretty bizarre story.
What kind of person does this? I am physically sickened by this.
??????? What is wrong with the world? More and more the news reads like a very
Just horrible.Was the family and friends clueless or what? If someone is pregnant 7 times over the course of many years and then suddenly
is not carrying a child and the baby is not around does anyone notice? SEVEN times? Really?
If someone went into a public place then shot and killed seven people they would
be a mass murderer. If someone captured seven children and murdered them they
would be a serial murderer. She needs to be treated the same. We should hope
she won't be treated differently because they were babies.
I am absolutely speechless and horrified! How could any human being be so devoid
of feeling and natural maternal affection to do something like this to her own
babies when there are so many deserving parents who would give anything to rear
a child? It is beyond my ability to comprehend!