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Comments about ‘Utah A.G. asks appeals court to stay judge-approved same-sex adoptions’

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Published: Wednesday, April 9 2014 11:55 p.m. MDT

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Noodlekaboodle
Poplar Grove, UT

@Objectified
The reason I brought up the LDS church was libertyforall's comment that said Mr Reyes must have been listening during general conference. All i'm saying about that is that i'm a Utahn(born and raised) i'm a taxpayer, and I deserve an AG that follows the law, not the marching orders of one religion. I wouldn't be ok with Mr Reyes if he was doing the same thing after a Catholic or Baptist conference, but Mr. Reyes is mormon, and that was the religion that it was implied that he was following orders from, not any other church. That's why I brought up the LDS church.

Copacetic
Hyrum, UT

@ Schnee:

Objectified talked about his/her desire to be raised by "a traditional family setting", not just by a natural parent who may choose to force their child to be raised in a SSM setting.

Social tests have determined that being raised by both natural parents is the ideal. Kids raised by single parents (natural or not) end up with more social issues and societal problems in general. Though many people raised by single parents become normal, healthy adults, people in prisons were raised by a disproportionate ratio of single parents. Missing the influence of a father or a mother becomes obvious and a fact that shouldn't be downplayed or ignored.

Though current data of adults raised in a SSM environment is still very limited, it's very possible that long-term issues with those eventual adults might also indicate disproportionate numbers of people having social issues. Time will tell.

Though being raised in a trational family setting doesn't guarantee anything, it's still shown to be the best overall environment for raising children. A higher percentage of those children have fewer problems later in life. And until other validated data indicates otherwise, we should rely on that.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Objectified, why did the state of Utah change their argument this morning, removing any reference to what kind of parents gay couples are? Why aren't they fighting for the children of gay couples as having a bad situation to put children in? What has changed?

The studies that proport to prove that children of gays do poorly have been completely discredited! They cannot use these studies and will not call the people who conducted them as witnesses. They proved to be that dishonest in the Michigan trial.

I know a few kids who are being raised by gays. They know that their family is different. I also know a few African-American kids being raised by white parents. They too know that their family is different. I was raised in a family of 9 children. I knew that my family was different too. Some children have step-parents. Some children are being raised by their grandparents. Every family deserves the support and benefits that we can give them - including these gay families, who are already raising these children and would like these kids to have the security of having two parents.

aceroinox
Farmington, UT

These arguments tend to focus on the rights of adults. Concern is expressed for the children involved, but remember--they have no choice in the matter. As the weakest party in the transaction, government must look after THEIR rights before those of the adults involved.

What are those rights? Nature decrees that a father and a mother are required for conception. We know intuitively (if we are being intellectually honest) that there are unique "goods" that both a mother and a father bring to the raising and nurture of a child, based on the innate characteristics and strengths of men and women (please don't even try to argue the absence of basic differences!). We have only to review Father's Day messages, including from President Obama, for a reminder of the devastating impact of fatherless homes on society and the children involved. One can cite all the "research" one wants, but in our gut we know that both mothers and fathers matter to children, and that a traditional mother-father home is best. We admire those single parents who must go it alone, but laws should favor the optimum scenario.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

Re: Bob K "What happens to the kids?
It's not like the Gay folks are stealing children for whom dozens of other loving homes of married opposite sex couples were waiting. Gay people often adopt the "hard to place" kids."

This is an act of cruelty. There's the old saying "what goes around comes around." Well, Utah is going to pay and pay and pay for this.

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

Chalk up another example of Utahns using the machinations of government in an attempt to destroy families. This is hypocrisy in it's most vile form.

I'm LDS, married in the Temple, and cannot imagine life without my family but I also recognize that a family dynamic can exist in various other settings and it is not incumbent upon religious folk to force their version of family on the state to the detriment of others. LGBT people love and care for their kids just as much as Utah Mormons.

LDS doctrine teaches of a pre-mortal existence wherein a great division occurred over the plans of free agency or compulsion. The AG Sean Reyes is demonstrating what path he ultimately follows now that he's been given a taste of power.

Lia
Sandy, UT

The poster "Liberty for All" is not living up to their name here.

Values Voter
LONG BEACH, CA

Copacetic wrote:

"Though current data of adults raised in a SSM environment is still very limited, it's very possible that long-term issues with those eventual adults might also indicate disproportionate numbers of people having social issues. Time will tell."

What, exactly, is your point? Please spell it out.

Whatever the situation is, or turns out to be with respect to "SSM parenting environments", there are, --right now-- impressive accumulations of social science data establishing the "sub-optimal" outcomes for children of non-college educated parents, children with parents living at or below the poverty line, children of divorced heterosexual parents, children of single parents, children in step families, and so on. There are other distinct groups for whom "sub-optimal child outcomes" are well established -- no "time will tell" about it -- and yet no one suggests, a.) barring individuals in those groups from being parents, and b.) barring them from marriage.

Why does the "sub-optimal child outcomes" yardstick only appear when we're discussing the possibility of allowing gay people to marry?

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

@acerinox:
"We have only to review Father's Day messages, including from President Obama, for a reminder of the devastating impact of fatherless homes on society and the children involved."

Amen to that. (I mean 'Amen' as a figure of speech.) If we dilute the meaning of marriage by calling it things that it is not the institution loses cultural importance. Marriage is society's way of saying that men should be responsible for their procreative actions.

The one example that has driven this home to me is one time I visited a youth detention center to tell multicultural stories to young men. People who were there because they broke the law enough times that the overworked justice system finally woke up. I told a story and one of the inmates could not understand the point about a man meeting his father in the field of battle when his father was the enemy. He asked, "How did he know that it was his father?"

I submit that the reason he was there was because he came from an environment where one would not know one's own father. That is why defending marriage is a liberal value.

Bob A. Bohey
Marlborough, MA

It appears to me that Utah is one of the most hate filled places on the planet.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@copactic
"Social tests have determined that being raised by both natural parents is the ideal."
"Though being raised in a trational family setting doesn't guarantee anything"

Then stop applying averages as if it's a universal truth. Black children score lower on average on SAT scores, are they harmed? Poor children have higher delinquency rates, are they harmed? Should those marriages be prevented? Should they be prevented from adopting children? No, of course not. But that argument is fair game for gay people. Why? Because a lot of people need an excuse to justify bigotry.

El Chango Supremo
Rexburg, ID

Values Voter:

I'm sure there was no political bias behind any of those studies...(sarcasm)

Personal experience from many many people dictates that one can't replace Mom with another Dad or vise-versa and get the same result.

Sneaky Jimmy
Bay Area, CA

Utah has not only the appearance of evil but an evil, mean spirited soul. To all of you who say a child deserves both a mother and a father please take a look at Kenneth Faried of the Denver Nuggets. He was raised by two mothers since the age of 7. He seems to have turned out alright. In this world we have to make the best of what we have. Those that put barriers up to prevent people from loving and marrying whom they wish are doing a disservice to to their community and fellow human beings.

ValiesVoter
LONG BEACH, CA

@ El Chango Supremo

"I'm sure there was no political bias behind any of those studies…(sarcasm)"

Sooooo --- the point of your sarcasm is that studies establishing bad outcomes for children in situations of divorce, poverty, single parent-hood -- or where parents have low educational levels, substance abuse problems, mental health issues, etc. are all because of bias on the part of the researchers?

Alright . . . I trust the intelligence of DN readers to evaluate the effectiveness of that bit of sarcasm.

Ranch
Here, UT

@aceroinox;

Nature may decree whatever it wants. Man has the ability, today, to create a human being by cloning an existing human being. No male/female genders required. We may not be doing it for ethical reasons, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

Candied Ginger
Brooklyn, OH

@LovelyDeseret: "I am so glad Utah is preventing these adoptions. Good, strong, healthy families are of the most importance to Utah."

My partner and I adopted 1 child with special needs and have fostered and are adopting a second special needs child.

We are lesbians. Two moms. "Good strong families" with straight couples didn't want these kids because they had problems. But you are saying they would be better in foster care, bouncing around the system than with two moms who love them and have them doing well?

If the state of Utah thinks kids in foster care who need parents and a family that love them will be better off waiting and waiting and waiting instead of being with two dads or two moms then they need to talk to the kids and find out the truth.

We are part of a a gay/lesbian adoptive parents support group and the kids who now have families are thrilled and happy and don't want to go back to foster care ever.

I can't believe you think those kids are better in the system than they are with loving parents.

Bob K
portland, OR

Objectified
Tooele, UT
@ Bob K and NoodlekaBootle:
"Very short sighted to try to blame this common sense action on the LDS church."

---- Very dishonest to say I blame in on the lds church. You are twisting words.
I blame it on Utah officials kissing the hand of church leaders and the most conservative members. Utah government is considered almost a joke, on the subject of putting fairness and truth ahead of any conflicts with conservative mormons.

--- The rest of what you wrote is completely disgusting, untrue, and not worthy of reply

Jimmytheliberal
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Lovely Desert...Does not Arizona have enough of their own problems? A simplistic Google search reveals some startling negative information. I'm sorry but there are many of us here in Utah that believe in equity for all and do not desire the view that most have of a backwards thinking state such as Arizona. How about focusing on issues in your state. One knows there are plenty of them!

Jimmytheliberal
Salt Lake City, UT

Once again any support or reference regarding equality for all and acknowledgement that reality is soon to arrive in Utah after the Federal Court ruling is denied by D.N. monitors. Perfect example of why things are in need of change in this great state. Believe it or not there are others who are not Mormon and believe in simple equality and it's about time others realize.

Stormwalker
Cleveland , OH

I hope the judges in Denver catch this nugget of information.

It should leave such a bad taste that if there is any doubt about "animus" the doubt will be totally washed away.

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