Comments about ‘All eyes of the nation focused on the 10th Circuit Court’

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Published: Wednesday, April 9 2014 9:15 p.m. MDT

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USU-Logan
Logan, UT

Mark my words:
The appeal court will uphold Judge Shelby's ruling and marriage equality will prevail!

Outside-View
Federal Way, WA

The Tenth Circuit Court is about as negative toward Utah political positions as the Colorado Ski industry is negative toward Utah ski industry.

Plus, Utahs case is pretty weak.

The studys about parenthood involving gay parents being less than what heterosexual parents provide were recently shown to be biased in the extreme becuase of the Evengelical sponors/writers. I think the key issue in that regard is the stability and commitmenet of the parents. One thing you would generally recognize about gay parents, is that they want to be parents. That is true becuase they often have to go through more to get children.

I think the legal marriage case is over. Next will be to move on to provide ways for people to legally not be forced to participate in gay marriages etc.

Meckofahess
Salt Lake City, UT

From MSN news today:

"Have you heard about these stats? Although lesbian/gay marriage and even civil unions haven't been around very long, early studies suggest that lesbian couples are 50-167 percent more likely to divorce than heterosexual couples, and nearly twice as likely to divorce compared to gay men".

Another important reason to support traditional marriage between a man and a woman. One of the great myths that the gay community tries to foist upon society is that their "relationships" are stable and long standing. In reality they have many partners and short term relationships on average.

Stormwalker
Cleveland , OH

@Outside-View: Next will be to move on to provide ways for people to legally not be forced to participate in gay marriages etc.

The bloodiest war in American history was fought because one group of Americans thought their religious beliefs gave them a right to mistreat and enslave another group of people. At that same time in history Johnson's Army was sent to Utah because the majority of Americans disagreed with the form of marriage practiced in Utah - and both sides claimed their actions were sanctioned by their firm religious beliefs. Segregation, often based on claims of religious propriety, lasted for decades and included lynchings and mistreatment and only ended with government force.

How about if we don't take a step backward. Because starting with "My religion says I can discriminate against Gay Weddings" will only lead to bad places, all backed by claims of God allowing this or that group to be treated with disdain.

How about this: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

Moderate
Salt Lake City, UT

Meckofahess "Have you heard about these stats?...early studies suggest"
I was unaware that rights are dependent on the outcome of studies.

I don't recall that before giving women the right to vote, we did studies to determine if they'd actually vote. Nor do I recall Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on a bus, because she wanted someone to "do some studies".

Don't be a glass-half-empty person. If 33% of gay marriages don't end in divorce, that means 33% of gay marriages are successful. Why would you deny happiness to those 33%?

Dr. G
Bountiful, UT

Overturning the Utah constitutional amendment on marriage is rather interesting when one takes the longer view of the history of legal marriage contracts.

In the seminal 12 volume work titled Jewish Bioethics, the authors offer historical research that the only other time in the history of the world when marriage between two men or between two women was codified into law was during the days of Noah, well over three thousand years ago (see Dr. Fred Rosner and Rabbi David Bleich, Ktav Publishing House, Israel, December 1999, page 219).

Though the practice of sexual relations between same sex partners has occurred during others periods in recorded history, our day and Noah's day are the only two times when those practices were codified by the ruling authorities as the law of the land.

It will be interesting to see how the ruling authorities decide this case? Will they side with the lawyers and judges of Noah's day or will they take another course?

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Meckofahess

I strongly question the validity of the numbers you gave. Massachusetts legalized same-sex marriage 10 years ago, and that state has the lowest divorce rate in the nation.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

We'll soon see if 'I'm affronted' is a genuine legal defense.

Mainly Me
Werribee, 00

There's no big mystery about the outcome of this case. The deck is already stacked against Utah and normalcy. The 10th Circuit will simply rubber stamp the homosexual agenda.

kaysvillecougar
KAYSVILLE, UT

It's been fascinating to see how the gay community has transformed themselves, and I would argue, ignored the social consequences that will come from these policies. Since it's taboo to do any studies on gays and certainly publicize any negative results of such studies, it will be difficult to get any accurate results to help shape future policy. I doubt there are too many willing to place themselves into their own academic coffin because of how quick they'll get buried by the gay community and liberal academia that upholds them. The ultimate goal, it seems for the gay community, is complete acceptance and approval of the gay lifestyle and they will not give up until they get it. It's not about equal rights, it's about complete social acceptance of homosexuality. It will be interesting to see if the gay community will at some point start a conversation about responsibilities instead of "rights." I wonder about the rights of children to be raised by a Dad and Mom who love each other and are committed to raising and teaching their children correct principles.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"early studies suggest that lesbian couples are 50-167 percent more likely to divorce than heterosexual couples,"

And 53.723 % of posters pull statistics out of their ears.

Here is a math word problem.

If 50% of heterosexual marriages end in divorce, and the divorce rate of homosexual couples is 167% higher, how many gay couples must get divorced without even getting married?

please show your work.

Ranch
Here, UT

Equality under the law is not an issue that can be voted on. It IS the law.

Willem
Los Angeles, CA

Equality for all Americans is on its way, Mormons get ready for it.

Testimony
Philadelphia, PA

Capitulation!

Gene Schaerr filed Utah's supplemental letter with the 10th Circuit yesterday, which you can find on Scribd, disavowing

part of the State's argument, "in response to recent press reports and analysis of the study by Professor Mark Regnerus."

Money quote: "Thus, the Regnerus study cannot be viewed as conclusively establishing that raising a child in a same-sex

household produces outcomes that are inferior to those produced by man-woman parenting arrangements."

Quite a little backtrack on the eve of today's scheduled oral arguments.

In closing, I note this line from today's Washington Post, describing the DOMA decision: "It said the arguments were

mostly window dressing for unlawful prejudice based on sexual orientation."

The judges hearing the Amendment 3 appeal are more conservative than liberal, appointed by two Republicans and one right-

centrist Democrat. If/when they deny this appeal, I'm sure conservatives, though, will be screaming, "Liberals!"

Karen R.
Houston, TX

@ Meckofahess

Do you know what the original source of your quote is? You should Google it. I find it kind of amusing.

But back to the debate. How does your assertion provide justification for denying equal rights? The argument does not go, "Homosexuals are better at sustaining relationships than heterosexuals, therefore they should be given equal rights!"

No marriage laws require proof that the couple seeking to marry is more likely than not to succeed in sustaining their relationship. If they did, heteros would be denied the right to marry too. So even if the stats you cite (from a lesbian website) are accurate or bear out over the long term, you still have failed to provide any credible justification for denying the right to marry.

happymomto9
Saratoga Springs, UT

why can't states decide for themselves?
this i believe is a state's rights issue.

i might also mention that maintaining the definition of "marriage" as between one man and one woman shouldn't offend gay people if they are already given the same privileges through "civil unions". they want the title more than the rights.

why is this "tolerance" issue so one sided?

Laura Bilington
Maple Valley, WA

Kaysvillecougar wonders "about the rights of children to be raised by a Dad and Mom who love each other and are committed to raising and teaching their children correct principles".

Kaysville, I have a proposition. Let us together file suit against the state welfare department to force them to remove all Utah children from homes which

a) do not have two opposite sexed parents, or
b) have parents who are not married to each other, or
c) do not love each other (and you need to specify how to measure that, somehow), or
d) are not teaching their children "correct principles" (let's not even think of how that one would be determined).

Jeff in NC
CASTLE HAYNE, NC

I will always love you, Utah, but I hope your case falls on its face. And when gay marriage is legal in Utah, and the Mormon church still teaches that being gay is a sin...well, I learned something going to church, and that is you can love someone and hate their actions. ;-)

happy2bhere
clearfield, UT

I sure wish the Supreme Court would just take up this case of SSM and make a final ruling on it. They ran away from an important case the other day. We need a Roe/Wade type ruling so we can settle this thing. Either it is a states rights issue, or marriage is a federal issue. Come on Supremes, make it happen!!! Then let's move on.

Meckofahess
Salt Lake City, UT

I have decided that there is too much emotion in this discussion for most of us on both sides of the issue to be totally objective and respectful of the other side. Time will tell how all this plays out. One thing is certain - they gay community will never achieve full acceptance in the eyes of many citizens because of the hateful rhetoric and forceful tactics they have employed to achieve their definition of equality. It is not possible to force anyone to accept something that runs contrary to their innate conscience and intellect. I believe the majority of Americans still believe in morality and common decency - despite modern social trends.

I for one need to strive to be more kind and respectful toward all of God's children - including our gay brothers and sisters. I regret some of the emotional rhetoric I personally have engaged in on the DN forum. I was wrong to do that. It does no good to only be kind to those who agree with you - anyone can do that!

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