Comments about ‘Letter: Scientifically unsound?’

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Published: Thursday, April 10 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT

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LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

There you go again...

Using Science and Common Sense,
to argue
Hysteria and emotion.

BTW --
Is it just me,
or has the Deseret News taken a rather sudden
and much harder far-right turn as or late?

Betcha
Waltham, MA

It has been proven and reproven that children do better in a home with both a Mother and a Father, I don't know why people keep thinking that just because they want a different lifestyle, that they have to prove what has been proven over and over again to be false.. I also have worked with children in our school system for over 30 years, and I can tell you that I support the statistics that children do much better, when they have a Mother and a Father... I have seen it with my own eyes, That is the fact, stop trying to change fact and truth, just because you want something different.

intervention
slc, UT

@Betcha

The problem is the research does not support your antidotal experiences. I suspect that would be because the children you see struggling ccome from single parent homes not same sex couple homes. You are right the facts are clear but they do not support you.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Betcha
Waltham, MA

So - you've seen a difference. Great.

What do you suggest?

We FORCE couples to get married?
And then FORCE them to stay married?
And FORCE them to be happy with it?

I'm a heterosexual man,
married for over 30 years.
Raised 4 wonderful kids.
Statistically, in the BEST situation imaginable for kids.

I consider myself LUCKY for being in the minority
because, most marriages end in divorce.

I see the world for what it is, and ask that people try harder.
Others, see the world for what it isn't, and then want to FORCE people to do what they should.

I'm LDS --
I beleive in the Pre-mortal world I chose to follow Christ, and support his plan of Free Agency - and invite others to do likewise.

Some still think Lucifer had the right idea.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

The opinion of the State of Utah about the Regnerus study: "Thus, the Regnerus study cannot be viewed as conclusively establishing that raising a child in a same-sex household produces outcomes that are inferior to those produced by man-woman parenting arrangements."

This is part of the official documentation submitted by Utah in the Kitchen v. Herbert same-sex marriage appeal.

The State of Utah also stated: "As the State’s briefing makes clear, the State’s principal concern is the potential long-term impact of a redefinition of marriage on the children of heterosexual parents. The debate over man-woman versus same-sex parenting has little if any bearing on that issue, given that being raised in a same-sex household would normally not be one of the alternatives available to children of heterosexual parents."

In other words, it is not really about the children - or, at least, not about ALL children, just some children whom the State cares about, the rest - eh, whatever.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

In all States, marriage is prohibited between siblings or close cousins. Why? They love each other. Are they being discriminated against because they are forbidden by law to share that love? Doesn't the 14th Amendment protect them? Just what is the reason for such "outlandish" laws? It's to protect the children.

Those who support same-sex unions tell us that the children will not be affected. They've told us a lot of things - just like Obama has. They want the "freedom" to marry someone of the same sex, no matter the consequences to society or to the children that they adopt or take into that union from a former marriage.

They cherry pick judges. They cherry pick data. They castigate anything and anyone who presents data that contradicts what their propaganda machine is feeding us.

Children need a man as their father and a woman as their mother to raise them according to eternal principles. They need the example of a man and a woman to show them their proper role as human beings. They will not get that in a same-sex union.

Thinkin\' Man
Rexburg, ID

The simple fact is that the best way to raise children is in a family with mother and father. A wide array of statistics (facts) supports this. It is in society's best interest to support and encourage and strengthen "traditional" families, and to provide legal protection for newborns to enter into such a family.

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

Mr. Richards - You may be unpleasantly surprised to find that marriage is not prohibited among close cousins in many states. In fact, Utah allows it when both are over the age of 65 or both are over the age of 55 but one is unable to reproduce.

And while typical legal justifications for such limitations is based on children, it is not for the reasons you espouse. In fact, the legal justifications for these marriage limitations rest on the likely physical impediments that children will suffer from as a result of inbreeding. I have seen no case law justifying such marriage restrictions based on the argument that raising the kids in that environment will be harmful to them. But then again, you could always correct me because you are the self-proclaimed constitutional expert (despite apparently being completely unaware of the actual case law and state laws surrounding cousin marriages).

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Facts, who needs facts, we should base all laws on religion, well our religion anyway.

Sad, how many refuse to acknowledge that a family is best, NOT just your idea of a family.

airnaut
Everett, 00

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

With all due respect --
You keep insisting Gay couples will ALL have children.

Many will not.

FYI --
People marry for love, not just for having sex.
People marry for love, not just for having children.

I'm sorry --
But you just can't seem to get past that,
or seperate the two.

Mister J
Salt Lake City, UT

to airnaut momments ago...

Agreed. Having kids is not a prereq for getting married or vice versa.

Some get married because they want the tax write off.

FT
salt lake city, UT

The more the traditional marriage proponets argue the weaker their arguments appear. This is one of the reasons why public opinion has swung so much over the past 10 years. So many of us know and have seen same sex couples be great family members, civic leaders, church members, neighbors, business partners and parents that the lies and distortions told by soical conservatives have become so evident and irrelevant. Truth, love and respect are winning the social debate.

Owen
Heber City, UT

In what other instance is the Gold Standard the measure of what should be allowed? Certain exercise regimens yield better results than others; we don't force people into to abandon all other exercise. What is best for society is not the basis of law - otherwise we'd forbid smoking and almost all drinking, require everyone to walk (in bright orange vests) whenever practical, etc., etc., The standard is "when does an act infringe on someone else's right to life, liberty and happiness?" My brother in a premortal existence wanted to force everyone to adhere to the Gold Standard. His plan was rejected; it infringed on my choice.

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

Families are primarily structured to raise the children for the next generation. It is for this purpose that government has given certain perks to families. The adults of the family need to be unselfish for the outcome of the children to be good. It is not all about the adults, and adults who don't figure this out aren't good parents.

As the family structure has deteriorated, the outcome of children has deteriorated, and so has our society as a whole.

It is insane to seek the further destruction of the family. Our nations children are struggling enough now. Blaming schools, the rich, the churches for the will not solve the problem, because they are not the cause of the problem. The cause is the disintegration of the family.

While it might be tempting to take offers from those who tell us they can do it better, (the LGBT), history and science tell us otherwise.

Oh that we spent the energy wasted seeking SSM to strengthen existing traditional families, for the sake of our country's children.

Candied Ginger
Brooklyn, OH

@Mike Richards - They need the example of a man and a woman to show them their proper role as human beings. They will not get that in a same-sex union.

We're a lesbian couple. We adopted a special needs child who had been in foster care for a couple of years and pretty much had no chance of being adopted by a "mom and a dad." IT seems like a lot of "mom and dad" homes don't want kids with problems who need a loving home.

I am at home full-time, my wife works in IT for a big company. We are now fostering a second child who has been in the system for several years, and have started adoption process.

So have we done the wrong thing for our kids? Should we stop the adoption process? Should we forget about wanting a bigger home so we can foster other kids in the future? (We need more bedrooms and a bigger dining room.)

We are stable, hard working, go to a Church with lots of activies, I am the room mom at school. What more do you want?

J in AZ
San Tan Valley, AZ

The only thing that we really learn here is that Dr. Rubinfeld doesn't like what the researchers listed in the editorial “In Our Opinion: A mom and a dad,” April 6. There are a couple of problems with his critique. First, academic research can really only be discredited by the legal community through successful litigation or a conviction. Collectively the legal community does not have the qualifications to discredit research in other disciplines. The second issue is treating the editorial as if it were a scholarly work. It is not a scholarly work it is an advocacy publication. It is unreasonable to expect an editorial writer to present anything that doesn't prove his or her point.

The final point that I would make is that while the DN editorial points out issues that are problematic about the methodology used to generate papers supporting the pro-SSM position, Dr. Rubinfeld just casts aspersions on the information presented in the editorial.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Stalwart Sentinel,
You've made my case. When "harm" can be shown to the child, that "union" is not allowed. Marrying a sibling or a 1st cousin is know to be harmful to a child. When a child's life is compromised by the actions of the "parents" that union is not permitted.

LDS Liberal, Open Minded Mormon, airnaut,
Before you tell us what we need to do, please re-read "The Family: A Proclamation to the World". It clearly tells us that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is the word of God through His prophets. He makes no exceptions. He is no "respector" or persons.

Candied Ginger,
Thank you for "adopting" someone who was rejected by others. What are you going to teach that child about his/her role in life? Are you going to tell him/her that the proper role includes procreation? Are you going to tell him/her that procreation is only allowed in marriage? Are you going to tell him/her that procreation is between a man and a woman and that any form of sex outside of that union is improper?

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Haven't seen very much "sound science" coming from the Deseret News these last few years.

anotherview
SLO, CA

Thank you Mr. Rubenfield.

Politics can be a soul-destroying endeavor. It is especially troubling when so-called religious organizations and those touting religious devotion, claiming high moral standards, get mixed up in the lies/misrepresentations in supporting various causes.

Why do we continually go down a path to justify positions and practices using sketchy and flimsy arguments that can't be substantiated?

It can be faith-destroying for secular AND religious institutions.

Candied Ginger
Brooklyn, OH

@Mike Richards:

Thanks for asking. We are showing both kids their "proper role in life" is to love others and be fierce in the face of injustice. They have a grandpa and grandma and aunts and uncles (some blood, some choice) and already see some people have kids biologically, some (my sister) choose to never have kids, and some adopt.

We are active in the UU church which has a great human sexuality curriculum. Ours are too young for that, but we use proper words for body parts and have talked about orientation as appropriate (some people are attracted to opposite, some to same, some to both.) I'm a stay at home mom, my wife works but they spend time with all the relatives and see how it works in other families and situations.

We are open about where babies come from and the problems of having children when you are not married - they know the importance of marriage for all parents, gay or lesbian or straight and that's why we support it.

Thanks for being supportive.

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