i agree the church has always been good at including women. Most women. But the
gospel is also about ministering to the one who is outside the fold. Are we
really to draw any serious conclusions about how many people "like" a
particular website? Or should we be more concerned that a fraction of our
sisters feel excluded from what maters most to them.
The Savior sent someone into my life to help me rise above my challenges, to
comfort me, to love me, and most importantly to cook with me.She is
not replaceable. Her and I could not exist without Fathers & Mothers. I
don't accept lies about who I am. I accept WHO I am first, and everything
else follows from that logic. I am a man. My wife is a women. We came from
Fathers and Mothers, nothing less.You can't find happiness in
something that isn't true. It's like a drug addict who keeps trying to
fill a void with a substance, yet never quenches the desire. "But whosoever
drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst"./////General Conference is on Saturday Morning, on T.V., radio,
and online. If you are trying to find peace, love, or even the hope of feeling
love from the Savior... This is the place!
Giving more visibility to women in the Church is great. This website will
contribute to it. But what about diversity and welcoming those who struggle with
issues? This no doubt well-meant website seems to display a type of perfection
and exclusivism that may grieve and alienate quite a few sisters. And as to comparing the "likes" of this one "very general website
for all" to the likes on a site of a small group of sisters struggling with
one issue, such a cheap approach fosters unnecessary polarization.
Women exert their influence on the Church and on the world in ways that are
fundamentally more important and far-reaching than most realize. We all have
mothers, and our character, be we of whichever gender, was formed largely by
virtue of our interactions with our mothers (or the lack thereof). The world is
as it is not solely because of men (and women) who lead nations, but also
because of the mothers who raised them (or who didn't raise them). The
Church is not as it is solely because of men in leadership positions who bear
the priesthood, but also because of the influence of the women who raised them
(to say nothing of the women who stand by their side) and us.The
power and influence of a woman on the world is most dramatically exercised in
the raising of a child. Is there any other office or position of authority than
can so profoundly shape the future?
The exclusion of any group is contrary to the basic principles of the Gospel and
while we don't have to agree with any (or all) of the principles of various
groups - it would behoove us as followers of Jesus Christ to ensure that all
feel welcome and the we will not be judgmental of them.
Having somewhere safe to voice and discuss our feelings regarding the prophet
and our beliefs is fine. But we still need to make a stance, and make our views
known to the world. Sites like Mormon Women Stand may empower more sisters to
do just that. I have been ostracised by friends and family because of my
Facebook posts about SSM and abortion, etc... however, it doesn't alter the
fact that these things are wrong. As long as they are wrong, I will continue to
let people know it. God is not going to change his mind on these issues, no
matter how many of his children may throw tantrums because they can't have
things their own way. Hopefully, Mormon Women Stand, and similar groups, will
give women the confidence and encouragement to speak up, and know that we are
There is an old saying--"the hand that rocks the cradle rules the
world." This is TRUE and not to be scoffed at.There are so many
today who can't even tell the difference between right and wrong let alone
have the courage to stand up. I'm thankful for these women who have the
courage to stand for right.Shushannah is right. God will not change
His mind no matter how many tantrums are thrown nor will he be mocked.
Saying what you support from an ideal point of view is not exclusionary and I
get so tired of people saying that it is. While I support women in the LDS
church who want the prophet to ask whether it is time to allow them to officiate
in all priesthood duties without calling them heretics. I also believe that it
is perfectly right to hold up the ideal of the human family. There is
absolutely no question that the ideal for human families is a father and a
mother. There is nothing healthier and happier for children. That some people
struggle with issues regarding this ideal, one way or another, does not make it
any less of the ideal. It is ideal for people to walk with a left foot and a
right foot. If someone loses a foot, shall we say that that condition is what
we should strive for? Or shall we just deal with the situation as best as we
can? Simply because people know and love other people who struggle with an
issue does not mean we hold up that struggle as something to aspire to. It is
something to deal with, not aspire to.
How do you include sisters who feel excluded because they cannot have what they
want? What do you do with these sisters who are using their energies to promote
a cause that the majority of LDS women don't want and that goes against the
teachings of the church? How do we disagree and continue to show
love and acceptance? Beyond continuing to reach out in friendship and love I
don't know. What does including diverse opinions look like? Certainly it
means allowing people to share their thoughts and feelings, but does it also
mean to embrace and inact all of them? That's not reasonable. There must be
an allowance - on all issues- for disagreeing while continuing to be kind to
those we disagree with. Some people feel that real acceptance of others means
agreeing. This is not true.And that there are women that want their
voices to be heard in support of church doctrine and practice is fair. We cannot
NOT say anything for fear of excluding or alienating others. What we can do is
to remain kind in spite of our different convictions.
Everyone - this is a great cause. Whenever I have a conversion about
traditional marriage and morals, you HAVE to include this statement:
"please know that we love everyone when we teach the gospel and urge people
live the commandments." Do not believe the hype that you are a hater for
doing this. The left relies upon that unsubstantiated charge that people that
support traditional marriage are haters. They are not, so be ready with your
simple answer - we love everyone. It also has the benefit of being true for
those who really are trying to live the gospel.
The real problem today, is that many are not capable of separating their own
feelings from that of others, and are intolerant of those that do not
'feel' or believe as they do. The belief and support of the living
Prophet and Apostles does 'not' exclude others, they exclude
themselves. Because those 'others' are free to choose as they wish.
Intolerance can swing both ways though, but at least we have a Prophet who
teaches us to be accepting of others that do not believe as we do. Accepting
does 'not' mean believing that what they do is correct, it means
accepting they have made another choice, and not persecuting them because of it.
We are taught to love others no matter what their choice. And yes, it can be
challenging. But those that stand on the other side of the fence more often then
not, actually 'not' understanding fully what we believe, accept the
negative propaganda and react and become hateful and bigoted when viewing us.
Our challenge is to 'stand tall, stand strong,' and to be loving and
accepting of them as children of "our Heavenly Father,' anyway.
Speaking in favor of the ideal does not equate with pushing away those who do
not fit the ideal. The ideal is something to strive for. We all have our
struggles. I don't get offended when talks about my struggles are raised.
Conversely, I instead feel a desire to strive to change. That is the intent of
standing up for the ideal - to 1) protect it and 2) set it as a standard we
should strive for. This applies to each one of us in some way or another. My
struggles are life-long battles the same as other people's struggles are. I
don't accept the things I struggle with that are against the teachings of
God, nor should I be expected to accept the things others struggle with that are
contrary to God's commands.
People are not "excluded" from the Church; sadly, they make that choice
themselves and find reasons for blaming others for their decision.
Bravo to these women! We should be able to speak out in favor of our faith in
Prophet and our belief in the doctrine and principles of the Gospel without fear
of being labeled hateful or intolerant.Let us all listen carefully
to the messages of Conference this weekend and rejoice in the counsel that we
It is unfortunate that this woman, and her page, is now associated with the
blogger who wrote that crazy, paranoid review of Frozen, but she is still
fighting for a good cause, helping to show the world that the small apostate
sect clamoring for a worldly notion of "equality" to be imposed upon the
Church does not represent the vast majority of women in the Church itself.
I greatly admire these women and what they are standing for, I likewise feel a
lot of pity for the women that are trying to use general priesthood meeting as a
spectacle to advance their personal desires. My sincere hope is that
the dissidents will quickly come to their senses and realize what they are doing
is wrong but I don't have much faith that they will. Selfish desires are
powerful things and they can cloud our judgement and even help to convince us
that we are sincere. This ordain women thing has been a very
interesting thing to observe, something so completely wrong and so evident to
most of us is apparently invisible to these women and their supporters. All we
can do is hope they wake up before it is to late for them.
Kinds reminds me of the marching band metaphor. Ninety nine marchers outa
step....only one getting it right. Now the ninety nine are making their voice
heard as they stand in step with the Prophet. Translate those numbers into per
centage of sisters who stand with the Brethren, they have plenty on their plate
just being great Moms and great neighbors, and trying to be Christ-like in every
way possible. Many have careers as well and do a phenomenal job. Why do we have
a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator to lead us? He leads the Church as directed by
The Holy Spirit and not by public opinion nor by the noise of a miniscule
minority. In God's Church, it happens that a few are out of fellowship and
harmony with the Brethren called to lead us.
I cannot envision any R.S. president, or any Bishop, or any V.T. or any H.T. who
would ignore any sister who feels left out. No one is perfect however. The
Brethren in charge have included women's leaders in their inner councils
for ever and have done wonderful things to accommodate needs of sisters.
Sisters are in charge of the R.S. They do a marvelous job.
The biggest problem that I have with this group is that it has an underlying
feel of "us vs. them". It's telling women that in order to be a
good Mormon woman that they need to "without hesitation, sustain the
Lord's Prophet, the Family Proclamation as doctrine and our divine role as
covenant women for Christ".When we look at the name of the
church, it is The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints. We need to have
more focus on loving each other, no matter where we are at. The only person we
need to hold to a higher standard is ourselves.By crying for Mormon
women to "unite with us" while spelling out what a good Mormon woman is,
they are creating a divisive group within a group.Christ and love
should be the focus. Please feel free to like the "Mormon Women Unite in
Christ" facebook community page which focuses on uniting women all over the
spectrum of LDS beliefs and coming unto Christ instead.
Iwanttogotothere, If we make a call to be more like Christ let us
remember that while his love was consistent, so were his convictions. He spoke
without hesitation, dividing many.
I find better representation for LDS women with another women's group that
has been around much longer, RELIEF SOCIETY. Their motto is "Charity Never
Faileth." The Relief Society page on Facebook (15,809 likes) is not as
popular as Mormon Women Stand (16,383 likes). Probably because popularity is not
the best gauge of value. It is an amazing organization of women that has
supported me unfailingly in my life's journey. Visit their facebook page
and give them a "like".
iwanttogotothere - yes, but it would only work if all sides took the same
approach that you advocate. Unfortunately, it's not working to just try and
"love each other" while staying silent against the onslaught. Actions do
speak louder than words, but both our (LDS) words and actions are being silenced
and ridiculed, all in the name of "diversity" and "equality".
The courage of Angela Fallentine is greatly appreciated. The ordain women
movement represents such a tiny segment but has gotten way to much press. It is
interesting to see how my sisters in California and in Seattle Washington have
faced real antagonism just for being caring,intelligent mothers. This is how the
extremes in the media have messed up the balance of coverage and content. It is
time for women who believe different than the political correct mantra to have a
place to communicate.
This new page has been posting some great content. But I witnessed the beginning
days, and I do not agree with the premise of this page. We should not be proud
and self-congratulatory in our beliefs. The invitation to this page felt just as
wrong to me as any invitation to feminist pages that I've received. When I
expressed my reservation in liking the page because the tone of the invitation
in only inviting "like-minded" women, my comment was removed. A sister
who said that she was not mainstream Mormon, but politely asked that those who
liked the page would be inclusive had her comment removed as well. This makes me
angry. How can you say you are following the prophet and then dismiss a sister
that already feels disenfranchised and is asking for a small kindness.
Essentially, this page is saying that those who are strong in certain aspects of
their faith are of more value than those who are not. That's appalling.
Whether that is the intent or not, it is felt by many. Also, as members of the
church, we are "gathered" through our baptismal covenants and not
through joining a Facebook page.
'nor should I be expected to accept the things others struggle with that
are contrary to God's commands.' This is not about accepting
'what they are doing' as 'correct' but accepting them as a
child of God and loving them anyway. "Love the sinner, not the sin" as
the old saying goes. They regardless are still loved by their father, should we
offer any less? As the world spirals closer to the second coming, I expect more
trials and persecution will come. It does not change the truth of the Gospel,
but the views of the world will pull more at members and society alike to
conform to their view, making it more difficult to stand strong in our faith. So
knowing and understanding who and what we are and how God would have us be
toward others is important in helping us to stand strong and stand tall in our
faith. We must not be arrogant, but humble and faithful in the knowledge that
God has in fact blessed us with the fullness of the Gospel hold it dear as we
live our faith and love those who seek anyway or reason to find fault with that
The Gospel is NOT exclusionary. However people often are. I have been in wards
that were very good at attempting to include everyone. I have also been in
clickish wards, where individuals collected into various social groups, and did
in fact leave outliers. This is not the Church, nor the Gospel that does this
but human nature. These outliers often fall thru the cracks because they
'felt' excluded. This I believe is one of the challenges we as a
people have and must overcome. We are all children of our Father in Heaven, and
must recognize these human failings in order to overcome. Obviously if an
individual represents danger to us or others, these human behaviors are
understandable. But, not everyone is beautiful, rich, athletic, a go getter,
popular, share the same interests as we do, let alone someone who is able to
draw solely from their own strength. We are here to appreciate each others
similarities and differences alike. We all have something to offer, some need a
little more support and encouragement to help them find their strength. We must
understand fully what the Gospel teaches us, and what it tells us God expects of
This article is praising another new "clique" within the LDS church.
Whether she knows it or not, Ms. Fallentine is encouraging an even further
divide between those that believe they follow God's commandments best and
those that are trying to work out what God's plan is for them. Many of the
comments here seem to reinforce that position. I'm sure the entire facebook
group is proud of how they are standing up for righteousness. Meanwhile LDS
children continue to go hungry, live on the street and commit suicide because
they don't measure up to a certain standard.
I joined Mormon Women Stand a few weeks ago and have been thrilled with the
positivity and the safe haven it has provided. Everything is in line with the
doctrine and the words of the prophet and apostles. This is a rare thing to find
in social media these days and sadly, people have been afraid to share or
discuss or defend the doctrine on issues because they will get beat up about it
or lose friends (or at least ruffle a few feathers.) The time has
come for people to stand boldly for the doctrine of Christ, even within their
own Church.I think the more good we have online the better! In the
church handbook of instructions (and listed on the Mormon Women Stand site), it
specifically encourages members of the church to use the internet to do exactly
what Mormon Women Stand is doing! So I love it and will encourage everyone to
join.Thankful to the organizers who provide a kind and yet
courageous place for LDS women.
Sneaky Jimmy, I respectfully disagree--in fact, completely disagree. In
reviewing you comment, I’m trying to find how these defenders of the
Church position could be more in line with your expectations of them.Your comment isn't in line with anything the apostles and prophets have
said repeatedly about standing for truth and righteousness, even if it may be
hard. In order for defenders to “stand for something”, they are
required to judge between right and wrong, correct and incorrect, using
teachings of Church leaders as their compass. They are then counseled to join
these conversations online and wherever else they can make a difference. There is nothing but inclusion on the MWS page, yet they do not allow
any criticism, bullying or finding fault in LDS church doctrine or the leaders.
The comments are kind and encouraging on the page.
Iwanttogothere,No one can win with your comment! How are members who
want to join together in standing with the prophets and the doctrine of the LDS
church being divisive? How else should they do it? Every single week
at Church and in every single session of General Conference, we are told how to
be good LDS people and followers of Jesus Christ. I have zero problem with a
faithful group of LDS women wanting to create a safe haven from internet trolls
and anti-Mormons.To me, the bigger issue here is religious freedom
and the ability for people to feel safe when defending their beliefs. And yes,
some need to feel safe from their own members who are dissenting or sowing the
seeds of apostasy.Kudos to this group!
I applaud this effort and wish these women success. I am glad there are people
who will boldly stand up, and I hope they get plenty of notice.I
also have to agree that the attacks on Kathryn Skaggs have demonstrated an
unwillingness to listen to thought out arguments by others and an attempt to
silence any but certain voices.
I am a member of the LDS church, and though it is hard to admit, I struggle with
mixing church and state and the idea of outlawing gay marriage. I don't
understand why we have to make it illegal. Why not make it so members of our
church do not engage in same-sex relationships/marriage and leave the choice and
accountability for others to make and experience themselves? Smoking is against
our doctrine, though we do not raise millions of dollars (to my knowledge) to
try and ban smoking in other states the way we donated money to
California's Prop 8 in hopes of banning gay marriage. I say we stop trying
to make earthly laws reflect our religious doctrine and focus on being living
examples of love and service.
If ALL people would just put their trust in the Lord, choose to follow the
Prophet, and ask instead, "Give me what I need to draw closer to Thee",
as opposed to "Give me what I want because then I'll be able to draw
closer to thee", there would be no need to petition, demonstrate, march or
stage an activity. Bravo for all church members who are able to submit
themselves in humility to the will of the Lord in all things. Sadly - the
things we "want" are almost never the things we really need.
"The time has come for people to stand boldly for the doctrine of Christ,
even within their own Church."AMEN, Globetrecker, AMEN!!!
This group of comments is only rhetoric until each person does something about
their feelings. --take a stand and support a cause. If this women's group
gives another person the courage to display a bumper sticker, or write a letter
to the editor, or better yet to the sponsor of an advertisement, or place
a political sign in their yard, or donate money to support a "worthy
cause" then they have met their first goal. Many voices can change the