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Comments about ‘Bar fined for serving client involved in fatal crash too much alcohol’

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Published: Thursday, April 3 2014 7:40 p.m. MDT

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I know it. I Live it. I Love it.
Provo, UT

People will surely say "It was his choice to drive, not the bar's."

They are right, but...

It was the bar's choice to serve more alcohol than the law allows for.

We can't ignore that.

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A drunk or "buzzed" guy may not be fully able to say "it's time to stop" but a sober staff have no inhibiting factor at all. It's the law for a reason- not to micromanage, but to preserve freedom where the ability to choose is under fire.

If you can't serve responsibly, you shouldn't be in business. If you can't drink responsibly, you should have a license to drive. Personally, I feel like there is no such thing as "drinking responsibly". But I am willing to compromise. But compromise requires people to obey the law. Compromise isn't logically possible with a "do whatever I want" attitude.

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Alcohol doesn't kill people. People kill people.

That's why our laws aren't legalizing alcohol, but what people do with it because they were reckless in the first place. I tolerate freedom, but not the freedom to endanger others as a drunk.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Good. We need to hold bars accountable for irresponsible serving.

I know it. I Live it. I Love it.
Provo, UT

Correction: I meant "That's why our laws aren't illegalizing alcohol", or rather- criminalizing.

play by the rules
SOUTH JORDAN, UT

Let's keep loosening the the liquor laws; that's the ticket. If we just try to become more like everyone else everyone will like us no matter the consequences.

J-TX
Allen, TX

This was a slap on the wrist. $2K and a 10-day vacation.

$50K and a month would have sent more of a message.

samhill
Salt Lake City, UT

"Raffield, 26, was driving south on Adams Avenue in excess of 60 mph in a 25 mph zone when she ran a stop sign and hit a vehicle traveling east on 30th Street, the police affidavit states. The force of the impact instantly killed the 22-year-old driver, Elsa Alonso of Ogden."
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This is absolutely **infuriating**!!

In addition to penalizing the restaurant (not nearly enough) I hope this repeat DUI offender is **severely** penalized and taken off the streets and put in prison **for many years**!

romeisn'tburning
layton, ut

This is a sad story. Our society is very hypocritical to demand the bar be responsible for a customers actions. The citizen is ultimately responsible for their own decisions regardless of how much alcohol they have imbibed. What would you have the bar do? Alienate a customers by telling them they have had too much, when they could be calling a cab? Take her keys by force in the parking lot when they try to drive? This nanny state stuff is so ridiculous. Next you're gonna tell me that pouring a beer in front of a child is going to make them an alcoholic....

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

So are we going to start fining gun shop owners for selling guns to people who cause harm?

Cleetorn
Fuaamotu, Tonga

Darrel, gun shops have been prosecuted for selling firearms to restricted persons who subsequently cause harm to someone else - as they should be. IT's happened before and it will happen again.

romeisn'tburning, you are correct in placing ultimate responsibility with the citizen. However, if you KNOW that someone is impaired and wash your hands of them because they are not your responsibility and they maim, injure or kill someone important to you, how will you feel knowing you could have done something but refused to?

Utah Dem
Ogden, UT

romeisn'tburning - What would you have the bar do? Cut her off from drinking.
Alienate a customer by telling her she had too much? Absolutely - what's more important - Making a few dollars off of this customer or the life of the 22 year old young lady?
Call her a cab? Yes.
Take her keys away? If that's what it takes?
Does anyone believe this is Raffield's first time driving drink? I certainly don't. But it may be the first time driving drunk with such lasting and devastating effects.

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

@Cleetorn

Darrel, gun shops have been prosecuted for selling firearms to restricted persons who subsequently cause harm to someone else - as they should be. IT's happened before and it will happen again.

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If a bar sold alcohol to someone under 21, I would agree with your logic. However, where does the responsibility of the store owner end? If a woman comes in teary eyed, and afraid and wants a gun for defense she claims but has plans to commit murder instead, is that the fault of the shopkeeper?

Where does the bartender's responsibility end? As far as he is concerned the patron will be calling a cab or has a friend coming to pick him up. What goes on outside of his establishment should be none of his business or concern.

Hold the scumbag responsible that went drinking and driving, there is no excuse for that. We don't hold Walmart responsible for selling knives that ultimately stab someone. We didn't prosecute Drano for the Ogden HiFi murders.

DEW
Sandy, UT

For bar owner, what is the 2nd or 3rd and beyound offense? Shut the door and strip their buisness? I don't know, but I think it should of been more harsh right now! Buisness people are getting away too much.

Peeves
Portland, OR

So, are they saying this person had no other means to get drunk other than the servers at this bar and that makes them responsible for another persons actions, and decisions?

My2Cents
Taylorsville, UT

Lets see, a bar tender must be able to look and a guy, count the drinks he orders for him self or give to others, and its a scientific rule of law that a person is too drunk to drive.

So why do law enforcement make drivers do so many dances and coordination demonstrations and a blood test to determine if a person is drunk? Shouldn't law enforcment have the same amount of visual acuity to declare a person is too drunk or intoxicated?

There are 3 standards here for the same law relating to a DUI. The bar tender should also be held accountable for those who aggravate their ability to drive with drugs smuggled in as well. Its only fair that he be held accountable for everything his patrons do in his business.

The law is punitive and and harassing and illegally forcing individuals to make unqualified judgement of peoples physical and mental condition. For an accident takes 2 vehicles so they should question who violated traffic laws to cause the accident rather than automatic violation of rights to criminalize the wrong driver. Running red lights seems to be a right and entitlement if you don't drink.

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