People will surely say "It was his choice to drive, not the
bar's."They are right, but...It was the
bar's choice to serve more alcohol than the law allows for.We
can't ignore that./////A drunk or "buzzed"
guy may not be fully able to say "it's time to stop" but a sober
staff have no inhibiting factor at all. It's the law for a reason- not to
micromanage, but to preserve freedom where the ability to choose is under
fire.If you can't serve responsibly, you shouldn't be in
business. If you can't drink responsibly, you should have a license to
drive. Personally, I feel like there is no such thing as "drinking
responsibly". But I am willing to compromise. But compromise requires people
to obey the law. Compromise isn't logically possible with a "do
whatever I want" attitude./////Alcohol doesn't
kill people. People kill people.That's why our laws aren't
legalizing alcohol, but what people do with it because they were reckless in the
first place. I tolerate freedom, but not the freedom to endanger others as a
Good. We need to hold bars accountable for irresponsible serving.
Correction: I meant "That's why our laws aren't illegalizing
alcohol", or rather- criminalizing.
Let's keep loosening the the liquor laws; that's the ticket. If we
just try to become more like everyone else everyone will like us no matter the
This was a slap on the wrist. $2K and a 10-day vacation.$50K and a
month would have sent more of a message.
"Raffield, 26, was driving south on Adams Avenue in excess of 60 mph in a 25
mph zone when she ran a stop sign and hit a vehicle traveling east on 30th
Street, the police affidavit states. The force of the impact instantly killed
the 22-year-old driver, Elsa Alonso of Ogden."---------------------------------------This is absolutely
**infuriating**!!In addition to penalizing the restaurant (not
nearly enough) I hope this repeat DUI offender is **severely** penalized and
taken off the streets and put in prison **for many years**!
This is a sad story. Our society is very hypocritical to demand the bar be
responsible for a customers actions. The citizen is ultimately responsible for
their own decisions regardless of how much alcohol they have imbibed. What would
you have the bar do? Alienate a customers by telling them they have had too
much, when they could be calling a cab? Take her keys by force in the parking
lot when they try to drive? This nanny state stuff is so ridiculous. Next
you're gonna tell me that pouring a beer in front of a child is going to
make them an alcoholic....
So are we going to start fining gun shop owners for selling guns to people who
Darrel, gun shops have been prosecuted for selling firearms to restricted
persons who subsequently cause harm to someone else - as they should be.
IT's happened before and it will happen again.romeisn'tburning, you are correct in placing ultimate responsibility with
the citizen. However, if you KNOW that someone is impaired and wash your hands
of them because they are not your responsibility and they maim, injure or kill
someone important to you, how will you feel knowing you could have done
something but refused to?
romeisn'tburning - What would you have the bar do? Cut her off from
drinking.Alienate a customer by telling her she had too much? Absolutely
- what's more important - Making a few dollars off of this customer or the
life of the 22 year old young lady?Call her a cab? Yes. Take her
keys away? If that's what it takes? Does anyone believe this is
Raffield's first time driving drink? I certainly don't. But it may
be the first time driving drunk with such lasting and devastating effects.
@CleetornDarrel, gun shops have been prosecuted for selling firearms
to restricted persons who subsequently cause harm to someone else - as they
should be. IT's happened before and it will happen again.======================If a bar sold alcohol to someone under 21, I
would agree with your logic. However, where does the responsibility of the
store owner end? If a woman comes in teary eyed, and afraid and wants a gun for
defense she claims but has plans to commit murder instead, is that the fault of
the shopkeeper?Where does the bartender's responsibility end?
As far as he is concerned the patron will be calling a cab or has a friend
coming to pick him up. What goes on outside of his establishment should be none
of his business or concern. Hold the scumbag responsible that went
drinking and driving, there is no excuse for that. We don't hold Walmart
responsible for selling knives that ultimately stab someone. We didn't
prosecute Drano for the Ogden HiFi murders.
For bar owner, what is the 2nd or 3rd and beyound offense? Shut the door and
strip their buisness? I don't know, but I think it should of been more
harsh right now! Buisness people are getting away too much.
So, are they saying this person had no other means to get drunk other than the
servers at this bar and that makes them responsible for another persons actions,
Lets see, a bar tender must be able to look and a guy, count the drinks he
orders for him self or give to others, and its a scientific rule of law that a
person is too drunk to drive.So why do law enforcement make drivers
do so many dances and coordination demonstrations and a blood test to determine
if a person is drunk? Shouldn't law enforcment have the same amount of
visual acuity to declare a person is too drunk or intoxicated?There
are 3 standards here for the same law relating to a DUI. The bar tender should
also be held accountable for those who aggravate their ability to drive with
drugs smuggled in as well. Its only fair that he be held accountable for
everything his patrons do in his business. The law is punitive and
and harassing and illegally forcing individuals to make unqualified judgement of
peoples physical and mental condition. For an accident takes 2 vehicles so they
should question who violated traffic laws to cause the accident rather than
automatic violation of rights to criminalize the wrong driver. Running red
lights seems to be a right and entitlement if you don't drink.