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Letter: Money isn't wisdom

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  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    April 7, 2014 7:58 a.m.

    To "Wonder" the point isn't the government forcing you to eat certain things. The point is the things that the government forced schools to learn, and what they are forcing the schools to feed the kids.

    Government nutrition education programs are failures. We have increased obesity rates every year since they began. Why look to government for wisdom, when people had more wisdom before the government took over.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    April 5, 2014 7:21 p.m.

    @RedShirtCalTech -- You do realize don't you that you are not obligated to eat what the government "tells" you to eat on the food pyramid. Some people like to know what the most recent research on nutrition advises. If you don't like to be informed, you are perfectly, 100% free to keep your head right down in the sand. It's a free country.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 5, 2014 11:26 a.m.

    2 bits,

    Interesting how you turn everything into a right vs left battle. Interesting also that you are able to deduce that I think the Koch Brothers are evil without me saying how I feel. Interesting that you know nothing about the Koch Brothers political action, but you do know about their charitable action. Interesting that you bring in George Soros, who you seem to have a lot of knowledge about to defend the Koch Brothers who you know nothing about except that they have a charity.

    Interesting that you can google and learn all about George Soros, but you can't google ALEC and learn that part of the Soros world. Since you brought up George Soros, contrary to your misguided belief, I am not a fan of him either. I will however give him credit like I do Mayor Bloomberg, he has been pretty open and out front with his political goals, unlike the Koch Brothers who try and hide in the shadows. Contrary to what you may think I view myself as conservative, I am a registered republican, but I don't embrace the far right.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 4, 2014 2:21 p.m.

    The poor and middle class will slide even further as the Koch brothers and their ilk continue to fund politicians that will do nothing to help all Americans except the rich!

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 4, 2014 12:36 p.m.

    Fred44,
    If you have a problem with the Koch Bros.... do you have any problem with George Soros? Or is it just one side??

    I don't know what ALEC is, but it sounds like an evil conspiracy of right-wingers. Do you have equal contempt for the Tides Foundation, or the Center for American Progress, Apollo Group, etc?

    ===

    From Wikipedia...
    "Soros gave $3 million to the Center for American Progress, $2.5 million to MoveOnDotorg, and $20 million[61] to America Coming Together. These groups worked to support Democrats in the 2004 election. On September 28, 2004, he dedicated more money to the campaign and kicked off his own multi-state tour with a speech: Why We Must Not Re-elect President Bush".

    "In an interview with The Washington Post on November 11, 2003, Soros said that removing President George W. Bush from office was the "central focus of my life" and "a matter of life and death"...

    ===

    If you think Koch Brothers are all bad... Check "David H. Koch Charitable Foundation and Personal Philanthropy"...

    They may not be the evil people you think they are...

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 4, 2014 10:25 a.m.

    2 bits,

    You said "I don't know anybody who looks to the Koch brothers for wisdom. They may look to them for money though". You actually do know those who look to Koch brothers for wisdom, that would be the majority of Utah state legislature leadership. They are member of ALEC and most of the 400 plus laws these limited government republicans propose was written by ALEC.

    I will give Mayor Bloomberg credit for coming right out in the open and pushing his agenda, instead of pushing an agenda from the shadows like the Koch Brothers.

  • nonceleb Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2014 8:33 p.m.

    This is the same Russell Bender who has letters published on a regular basis? Surprises me. What I have gotten from his letters over the years is that he is an ultra-conservative who defends the economic system which helps create excessive wealth of plutocrats and their disproportionate influence.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 3, 2014 2:57 p.m.

    Open Minded,

    You're barking up the wrong tree - again. I have stood for freedom whenever freedom has been challenged. You seem to think that everyone who doesn't agree with your particular idea of freedom is anti-freedom. Perhaps it's time that you expanded your viewpoint and stopped trying to keyhole anyone who disagrees with you. There is no room for bigotry when discussing our freedoms. There is no room for those who would impose, by law, or by government regulation, sanctions on any liberty.

    You know how vocal I was before the "sin tax" was levied on cigarettes. As much as I am against smoking, I will not impose a "sin tax" on those who think differently.

    You may not stand for free speech, meaning that you would try to silence anyone who disagrees with your point of view, but I like to read what everyone thinks. By reading, it's easy to see who believes in freedom and who wants to squelch those who have differing ideas.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 3, 2014 2:36 p.m.

    Open Minded Mormon,
    RE: "Then why are you against:
    [religion] - Muslims building in New York"....

    There you go making your stereotype-based assumptions about people again.

    Like if you have a Conservative point of view... you were automatically against Muslims having a mosque in NYC.... I know lots of Conservatives who had no problem with it. Even Glenn Beck was very vocal about the need to observe their right to be treated like any other religion.

    These broad brush judgements are just useless. They don't fit everybody... but you assume they do.

    We need to quit seeing people as your labels for them, your stereotype for them, your prejudices about them...

    Not all Conservatives opposed the mosque. And many NYC Liberals opposed it. It just doesn't cut as cleanly as you think.... along political lines.

    You still only get 4 posts per day like the rest of us... right? Because this is my last one. But I'm sure you have lots left.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    April 3, 2014 2:06 p.m.

    @Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah

    The 1st Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    =======

    Then why are you against:

    [religion] - Muslims building in New York or Satanists in Oklahoma,
    smoking tobaccco, marijuana and drinking alcohol
    [speech, press] -- Against pornography or the "Book of Mormon" Broadway musical,
    [assemble] -- Unions, Associations, Occupy WallStreet,
    ect.

    You can't say you are for Freedom and Liberty for all,
    and then
    immediately deny it to others you happen to disagree with.

    Money is Power, not Speech.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 3, 2014 1:54 p.m.

    Curmudgeon,

    The 1st Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    That is the Supreme Law of the Land. It doesn't matter what I think about certain kinds of speech. The speakers are guaranteed the right to say what they want. They, just like all of us, will be held accountable for every word and for every thought, but if they want to use their mouths or their money for inappropriate "speech", they can.

    If we were to abridge the right of speech, then we would have to acknowledge that Government gives us rights. That is false. We were given all rights by our Creator, not by government.

    Freedom requires that we behave ourselves. We can be in self-inflicted bondage if we allow appetites and passions to control us. No jail is necessary.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    April 3, 2014 1:48 p.m.

    happy2bhere
    clearfield, UT
    OMM

    Billionaires like George Soros for instance? Or Oprah, who basically used her TV show as a launching pad for Obama. She's a billionaire. Yup. Billionaires can buy a lot of influence. That's why it is good to have them on both sides of the political isle. Balances things out.

    12:26 p.m. April 3, 2014

    =====

    So,
    Before you start your Victory lap,
    You might want to agree with those of us on the Left that this was a HORRIBLE decision by the SCOTUS.

    I cuts both ways --
    So, we're against it for ALL parties,
    and for the exact same reason.

    That's called - Integrity.

  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    April 3, 2014 12:50 p.m.

    To "Baron Scarpia" no the Koch brothers are not doing the same thing. The Koch brothers want to get rid of laws and allow people to make decisions on their own.

    Lets start with a simple example. We have the Food Pyramid, Food Plate, or whatever they call it this week for what the government wants us to eat. Why is the government telling us what we should eat? Why can't I determine what my body needs in terms of nutrition, why do we need government programs to tell me what is good? There are many other laws and programs out there that are simply designed as ways that the government makes decisions for you.

    The Koch brothers would do away with most of those programs and laws, making it so that YOU have to use your own wisdom to conduct your life.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    April 3, 2014 12:26 p.m.

    OMM

    Billionaires like George Soros for instance? Or Oprah, who basically used her TV show as a launching pad for Obama. She's a billionaire. Yup. Billionaires can buy a lot of influence. That's why it is good to have them on both sides of the political isle. Balances things out.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    April 3, 2014 11:46 a.m.

    "Apparently, these billionaires believe that they can buy anything with money — and, again, apparently, they are right.

    Russell Bender"

    ========

    Citizens United,
    now
    McCutcheon.

    So -- Yes Russell - Billionaires CAN buy anything they want with their money, including Politicians and Elections.

    As for Money making you Wise,
    I submit; Paris Hilton, Justin Beiber, and Linsay Lohan as a good examples of that.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2014 11:23 a.m.

    The billionaires have been throwing their money away and supporting losers.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 3, 2014 10:55 a.m.

    I never though having money made you smarter. But that doesn't mean you can't use your money in political ways. But I don't respect the opinion of a rich person any more than any other person.

    ===

    What's with all the Koch brother comments? Did they say on MSNBC last night, "If you run out of things to say... just bring op the Koch brothers"?

    The Koch brothers didn't ban sodas, trans fats, etc, for the masses, or tell us what we can or can't eat. And I've never seen them on TV telling us what to do. I don't think I'd recognize either of them if they did appear on TV.

    I don't know anybody who looks to the Koch brothers for wisdom. They may look to them for money though.

    I know they use their money to advance their political views (as well as using it for many humanitarian causes)... but that's not the topic (thinking money = wisdom)

    ===

    We all know people with money have more political clout (no problem with that). But I hope nobody here actually thinks that money makes you smarter.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2014 9:33 a.m.

    "Anyone can say anything that he wants about anything that he thinks is important."

    Wow, Mike, that's a pretty broad statement. So does that mean that you are opposed to the government interfering with purveyors of pornography, racially charged hate speech, libel, slander, fraud, perjury, incitement to insurrection, unauthorized disclosure of classified information, and other forms of what most people consider objectionable speech? That sounds pretty liberal IMO.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    April 3, 2014 9:24 a.m.

    Russell, I'm sure if the billionaires agreed with you, you'd think they were highly intelligent. You probably think the Koch brothers are geniuses.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    April 3, 2014 9:03 a.m.

    re: LDS Liberal

    Isn't interesting how SCOTUS which leans to the Right of Center has ruled on Obamacare & McCutcheon v. FEC.

    If they were to overturn the abomination known as Kelo v New London then I'd do cartwheels up and down Cougar stadium during the subsequent Stadium of Fire.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2014 8:59 a.m.

    Actually, Russell.

    I saw Bill Gates on Charlie Rose. He was not patronizing. They were decent suggestions IMO that should be given consideration.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    April 3, 2014 8:51 a.m.

    @ LDS Liberal, oh that you would be correct, but based on history, the writer surely will have a different conclusion for the Kochs, Adelson and other right wingers. At least with Bloomberg, his efforts were his attempt to help the people, agree with the policy initiative or not. I know NYC really really well, and it is a better place. But with Kochs and Adelson, I see absolutely nothing whatsover in their activities that even remotely are intended to serve the interests of the people. It's about protecting their personal interests. Therein lies the difference. Bloomberg could be voted out. The Kochs and Adelson cannot. There is a difference.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    April 3, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    If money could talk, oh wait the SCOTUS just said it can and freely.
    Next order of conservative business, granting personhood to money.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 3, 2014 8:29 a.m.

    Anyone can say anything that he wants about anything that he thinks is important. Are we foolish enough to give more credence to what someone says just because he has money? If that's the case, no one would have ever listened to Christ.

    If a person wants to spend his money supporting people who believe the way that he does, he can. It's his money. What would we think if the government decided that one movie a year was enough? What would we think if the government told us that we could buy only one subscription per year to a news magazine or listen to only one radio station?

    We are Americans. We limit the duties of government. The government does not us rights. Those rights are inalienable, gifts from God.

    The Preamble starts: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 3, 2014 6:50 a.m.

    I hope the letter writer is even more upset about the SCOTUS rulings on Citizens United and yesterday's McCutcheon v. FEC.

    'cause you ain't seen NOTHING yet...

  • Baron Scarpia Logan, UT
    April 3, 2014 6:47 a.m.

    Aren't the Koch brothers doing the same thing with their buying... er, "support" ... of conservative politicians actively working to deny climate change and action to preserve our fossil fuel-based economy?

    Koch-funded ALEC has been out to stop renewable energy in many states through legislation -- fortunately, they've not been as successful (yet), even in red states where renewable energy is expanding rapidly and bringing economic benefits across rural communities.