Published: Tuesday, March 25 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT
Hey Mike, remember how distressed you were when the Supremes ruled against your
beliefs on gay marriage? You thought that those cases were slam dunks too. Why
not just wait until June and you can see what they think on this issue and then
you can do a victory dance or denounce activist judges and government that
doesn't agree with your reading of the Constitution.
Health insurance is part of the compensation package for employment, just like a
paycheck. An employer has no more right to prevent an employee from using their
insurance to cover contraception than it does to prevent the employee from
spending their paycheck on alcohol and R rated films.
HL is not forcing any religion on any employees. All the indignant posters are
not being forced by HL. Those of us who are religious respect that you believe
differently, and don't require you to believe as we do. We just ask that
you, in return respect that we believe differently than you, and not expect us
to change to your beliefs. Is that really so hard, to just respect
us and let us practice our religion? You can eat, drink, and be merry, all you
want, but on your own dime and your own time. You can play in the mire, but I
shouldn't be required to jump in with you. You have your choice, and I have
While the world is brief, random, indifferent, and cruel, Karl Marx did a nice
job of expressing the world and human reaction to it's reality." Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless
world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of
the people."The problem is when "the people" treat it as
a reality not a consolation. Conservatisim and it's religious
partners are dragging America into an abyss of ignorance, intolerance, and
mediocrity. The American dream is being suffocated in a blanket of spiritless
@2 bits: The only people prayer at public meetings offends... is liberal
leftists (not religious people, even if they aren't of the same faith).>>>>When you say "aren't of the same
faith" do you mean go to different Christian denominations that teach
essentially the same thing until you get into the nitty-gritty of deep doctrine?
Or do you mean you would be comfortable in a meeting being opened by
a Wiccan and closed by an Islamic prayer? Because if you are saying
the latter, my experience is that most Christians are not that opened minded and
they will claim all manner if a prayer is offered that does not close "in
the name of Jesus," let alone a prayer offered by a believer of a different
Chris 24/7: What if the employers are Muslims? We have those folks too, right?
They want prayers several times a day? OK or not?? What if Fred Phelps
(Westboro Baptist Church) owned Hobby Lobby and said that no one could be
homosexual and work for his money making enterprise? Ok or not? Finally, since when does the Constitution allow religions to decide science?
They say some contraceptives are ok and some are not because they are
abortifacient even when the jury is not in on the issue?? The last time religion
got into science, Galileo went to prison and it didn't turn out too well.
Respect goes two ways my friend. If you expect respect, you need to
be willing to give it as well.
Christian 24-7:The fact that you consider adults being able to
choose when they have children as "playing in the mire" is a huge part
of why this is such a problem.
Wow, it's sadly amazing just how many people don't feel that religious
freedom is important. It shouldn't matter if you are religious or not. Once
we apathetically let someone else's right slip away, sooner or later it
will hit home to us.
Twisting/spinning words and mocking are quite the opposite of respect. Is that really so hard, to just respect us and let us practice our
religion?Apparently, for many of the anti-religious, it is.
"Wow, it's sadly amazing just how many people don't feel that
religious freedom is important. It shouldn't matter if you are religious or
not"The question here is not whether religious freedom is
important or not, it's "what is religious freedom"? Does it mean you can force me to live by your beliefs because I'm
employed by you? Does it mean any activity even if prohibited by another law is
ok if linked to a religious belief. So drop the martyr complex. You are free to
carry around any notion you want in your head. You are also
"free" to associate with others who think as you do. The question today
is how free are you to make me live by your beliefs when my association with you
is not one of like mind but employment.
to Christian 24-7Your combo of the persecution complex and my way or
the highway mindset is not only tiresome but stunningly typical of a "true
believer" regardless of sect.
This controversy is not really about religious freedom. It is about finding
another way to attack the Affordable Care Act. If this were a religious freedom
issue there is a simple solution. Let those employees of Hobby Lobby that need
contraceptive coverage pay a predetermined contraceptive premium cost for that
medical service as a employee payroll deduction for health care. And, let them
pay it with funds not subject to income taxes. Under this approach, the cost of
contraception is born by the employee not the employer.
I agree with what Stormwalker said yesterday a.m. Further,
christians aren't as tolerant as Christian 24/7 would like us to believe...
Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, & the Albigensian Crusades
It is sad that so many people are willing to abandon one right after another to
the whims of the government. That being said however, Hobby Lobby is
really in a no-win situation. The fact is, if their employees buy
contraceptives, they either got it with a paycheck provided by Hobby Lobby or
they got it with health care provided by Hobby Lobby. Either way, Hobby Lobby
made their contraceptive purchase possible. The real issue is why
anyone should not have to buy their own contraceptives. People are going hungry
in this world and we are worried about buying everybody's contraceptives.
It is insane.
@ Mike in Cedar City"This controversy is not really about
religious freedom. It is about finding another way to attack the Affordable Care
Act."Yes, I think you're right. This is really a backdoor
maneuver disguised as "religious freedom."@ RABRe: the question of paying for one's own contraceptives, I believe the
rationale is that this is a public health issue. It is in everyone's best
interest to promote contraceptive use because of its many health benefits.
"We believe in the inherent dignity of every human being — dignity
that no earthly power can take away. And central to that dignity is freedom of
religion — the right of every person to practice their faith how they
choose … and to do this free from persecution and fear."David, Freedom of religion includes all of us, including gay people! When we
fight for the right to marry, it is a long battle that all gay people have had
to gain some dignity! It is a way of making our lives better and we should have
the right to live our beliefs that we can be married and have families! Nobody
is taking away your right to believe it is wrong! Go ahead and believe whatever
you want, but freedom of religion does not give you the right to deny us the
right to live our lives in dignity! Is that really hard to understand? I do not have to accept the degradation that your beliefs impose on me! Some
of you have been heaping a lot of judgment on others. You are talking about
dignity while you judge and put down a lot of good people around you!
@ RAB" The real issue is why anyone should not have to buy their own
contraceptives. People are going hungry in this world and we are worried about
buying everybody's contraceptives. It is insane."RAB how
many less hungry people would be in the world if their parents would have had
access to contraceptives?Good parents, reponsible parents are going
to bring to the world only the number of children they think they can
support.You see, different to most species. We humans don't
have a season to reproduce. For us sexuality is not only for reproduction but
also for pleasure and as the consummation of love. Therefore, we need
contraceptives. Is in the best of interest of society to have healthy parents
able to sustain their own families.Hobby Lobby and all organizations
including churches (IMHO)should pay for full health coverage. The employees
should have the freedom of agency to use contraceptives or not. It should be
their decision not their employers.
Mike Richards: When the government violates the Constitution by requiring us to
buy insurance, why wouldn't it violate the Constitution by establishing a
State religion?The government is not supporting a state religion,
what it is doing is keeping your religion out of the state.The
government and the supposed "liberal judges" are enforcing the
Constitution. The only violation is the status quo has gotten away with not
following the Constitution. That includes the insertion of religious beliefs
into it denying all citizens of their constitutional liberties.
This quantity of discussion genuinely confuses me. Every sentence in the
article is accurate, and if there were any doubt, plenty of people here have
personally andi ronically demonstrated it.
@Ranch"but the FREEDOM to marry LGBT couples is ALSO a "religious
freedom" and there are MANY religions that believe it is perfectly okay.
Imposing your religious beliefs on others who believe differently, certainly
qualifies as a violation of the religious beliefs of others."-------Nobody is trying to stop any religion from performing a gay or
other marriage. That is NOT the issue. The issue is what the government
recognizes, and do the people of the nation and the individual states have the
right to determine which marriages the government recognizes. Any church or
private entity may perform a gay marriage, even if it is not recognized by that
government. Also, for example, nobody is stopping the LDS Church from performing
marriage sealings to deceased people even though the government doesn't
recognize them as legal marriages. Even the early Mormons who were polygamists
didn't ask the government to recognize polygamous marriages - they only
wanted the government to leave them alone.The issue isn't the
right for gays to get married. The issue is government recognition of certain
marriages, and the right of the people to determine what the government
recognizes and how and what benefits are offered.
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