Comments about ‘Letter: Religious intolerance’

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Published: Tuesday, March 25 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@RAB
"Therefore a corporation cannot deny its employees or its customers their religious freedoms. If you don’t like a company’s values, don’t work there."

That's not much different than imposing Sharia law on a state or nation and saying if you don't like the state or country's values, don't live there.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

What's happened in West Jordan? The writer says nobody has any religious rights left! Out here in Bountiful the Catholics held a big spaghetti dinner for the whole town, the Lutherans and Baptists meet across the street from each other, the Mormon parking lot is full, and there are no gov't thugs in sight anywhere! If the churches are shuttered and religious people's mouths are duct-taped in West Jordan, we should all be very alarmed....

Thinkin\' Man
Rexburg, ID

The sooner we officially define "atheism" and "secularism" as religions, the better. If a religion is a system of beliefs, they certainly fit.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

No one is forced to use contraceptives, yet Hobby Lobby is forced to fund the use of contraceptives. That is a violation of their right to run their business and to practice their religion as they wish. Nothing in business licensing forces a business to pay for a product that it does not want and does not believe is good; but, the government has decided that IT will decide what is good for us and that IT will force us (businessmen) to fund what IT thinks is good for us.

Where in the Constitution did the people give government that power? It's not there. Section 8 of Article I lists the only things for which the federal government can require us to pay for through taxes. Contraceptives are not on that list. Insurance is not on that list. Nothing that Obama is trying to do with ObamaCare is on that list.

The only question that is valid is whether the government has the right to require businesses to use their money to provide anything that is not on that list of 17 enumerated duties that the people have assigned to Congress.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

2 bits: "I don't care if a person of a different religion gives the prayer at a public meeting I am attending..."

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So, you would not be offended by a Wiccan praying to her Goddess, or a Satanist praying to the devil? Really? Those are religions that are practiced here in the US.

I just can't see you sitting there smiling as a Satanist calls on the devil to attend a meeting and influence the thoughts and actions of the people attending there. Have you thought of that?

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@Darrel 9:17,
Hobby Lobby is not forcing their religion on you...

#1... you don't work for them, so what they do has absolutely no affect on you.

#2... even IF you worked for them... You can buy your own contraceptives, can't you?

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Contraceptives aren't expensive. People used to buy them with their own money all the time. Every drug store has them, no prescription required, just a little cash. I don't see why now it's your employer's obligation to provide them to you for free.

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IMO we should end this attitude that everything we want for our health MUST be provided by our employer (or insurance).

Some of it you're going to have to do (and maybe even pay for) YOURSELF.

They can't exercise for us. They can't feed us the right foods. They can't control our lifestyle. They should not be expected to pay for every decision we make.

Some things we may have to do for ourselves. Buying our own contraceptives may just be one of those things...

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Free contraceptives is not an inalienable right.

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HL will probably loose the case. No problem here.

The topic is "religious tolerance"... not insurance.

jsf
Centerville, UT

Remember when providing health insurance for employees was a choice, not the government? Remember when an employer could decide to pay for the employee's insurance but the employee would have to pay for his family's coverage?

So long as liberals keep saying businesses are not made up of individuals who are people and state controls and determines what a business can or can not due, then we have the totalitarian socialist society where the state controls the means of production and what is produced.

A corporation is simply a legal means for a group of people to operate as a business. A business license is simply a legal means to collect fees (taxes) from those who operate as a business. A license to due business does not provide the means by which the state can dictate how or what a business does. It does not cover harmful or dangerous materials. Handling dangerous materials is handled by separate permits. Attempts to dis-associate the individuals from the business they own is to take away their freedom as individuals in the name of the state.

jsf
Centerville, UT

@airnaut, "I wish I had 25 likes and a flashing Gold Star for this one." all you need is ninteen more screen names.

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

Mr West, Imposing your religious beliefs on others is really what this is about. There is nothing forcing Hobby Lobby employees into using contraceptives if they so choose. What better way to prevent abortions than to prevent pregnancy? All this whining for ways not to comply to the ACA could be avoided with a single payer healthcare system.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@Thinkin\' Man – “The sooner we officially define "atheism" and "secularism" as religions, the better. If a religion is a system of beliefs, they certainly fit.”

Do you believe in Zeus?

No… then please explain how your non-belief in Zeus is actually a “system of beliefs.”

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Mike Richards

South Jordan, Utah

No one is forced to use contraceptives, yet Hobby Lobby is forced to fund the use of contraceptives.
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No, they are not being forced to fund contraceptives.

They have other options, including paying $2000 per employee and not having healthcare. Give the other money that is saved to the employees to pay for their OWN healthcare. They would not lose any money and would be able to keep their religious beliefs.

It is not all or nothing. They just want their own way...not keeping their beliefs and working within the law. I wonder why?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Kristallnacht, also referred to as the Night of Broken Glass, or Reichskristallnacht was a program against Jews.
German authorities looked on without intervening.

The name Kristallnacht comes from the shards of broken glass that littered the streets after Jewish-owned stores, buildings, and synagogues had their windows smashed.

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THAT is State sponsored bigotry, intolerance, and loss of religous Freedom.

Providing equal access to a woman's healthcare by a BUSINESS is not even in the same league -- not by a trillion miles.

This is what I mean when I say the uber-far-right-wing is no longer even playing in the same ball field....

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Open Minded Mormon, LDS Liberal, airnaut,

You wrote: "Mike -- that is an out right lie!
The Government does not believe in abortion."

When was Roe v Wade overturned? Is abortion against the law? Since when? Government believes in abortion. It promotes abortion by requiring Hobby Lobby and EVERY OTHER BUSINESS in America to fund abortifacients. It believes in prohibiting life by requiring every business in America to fund contraceptives.

You also stated that the government believes in the right to privacy? Which government were you referring to? Certainly not the Federal government that records all email and all cell phone conversations, or do you exclude cell phone and email from "privacy"?

The government has encroached on our liberties. We have the right to practice our religion without the government telling us which doctrines we can practice. You have read that, haven't you? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE thereof;"

Memorize it. We have the right to PRACTICE our religion without government interference. Belief in the sanctity of life is fundamental to many religions.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Thinkin\' Man said: "The sooner we officially define "atheism" and "secularism" as religions, the better. If a religion is a system of beliefs, they certainly fit."

A thinking man would realize that "atheism" and "secularism" are a religion, like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

LDS liberal nailed it. It's about Hobby Lobby trying to control your healthcare, and doctors businesses using religion as a tool.

jsf said: "all you need is ninteen more screen names." The new justification for why few agree with the neocons on these pages, like the imaginary voter fraud the republicans keep talking about.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

jsf 11:54 a.m.,
That was hilarious... I've often thought the same thing. LOL.

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Lane Myer 11:32 a.m.,
I would not have a problem if a Wiccan was invited to give a prayer at a meeting. My best friend's daughter in law is a Wiccan and she gives prayers at family dinners and such all the time. Doesn't hurt anybody. Why would I not smile? I'm glad they have the same freedom I have... why would I be upset?

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For the last time... this isn't about getting the government to promote MY religion, or ANY religion. It's about getting them OUT of my practice of my religion!

I used public meetings as an example. But I really don't care if there is a prayer in any public meeting or not. But the Government should not PROHIBIT it.

I think prayer is mostly done in private, but if somebody (ANYBODY) WANTS to pray in public... LET THEM!

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "The Real Maverick" yes, Hobby Lobby does have the right to bear arms. If they wanted, they can have armed security officers.

To "airnaut" you are confusing. First you say that you believe in Agency, then you argue that Hobby Lobby should be forced to do something it doesn't want to. Well, which is it? Do we give the owners of Hobby Lobby agency, or do we force them?

To "Happy Valley Heretic" what about the intolerance of the anti-thiests and secularists that are highly offended at the mere sight of something religious? Aren't they teaching intolerance too?

To "Tyler D" actually secularism is a religion. A religion is defined as a set of beliefs adhered to by faith. Since Athiests cannot see the entire universe, they rely on faith that God does not exist, and hold to their beliefs based on that faith.

To "Open Minded Mormon" you should study history more. Over the past 150 years the government in the US has not only forced abortions but also forced or misinformed people and sterilized them.

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

@2bits

#2... even IF you worked for them... You can buy your own contraceptives, can't you?

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The point isn't contraceptives. The point is healthcare, and does someone else's religion have the right to block me from said care; whether it's contraception, blood transfusion or anti-depressants. If healthcare is a right (and I maintain it is) then you, my pastor, my spouse or even the President have no right to say what can and cannot happen between me and my doctor. Period. Doesn't matter if it's contraception or him giving me a third kidney.

What the owner of Hobby Lobby is allowed to do is preach, and advocate against the use of contraception. He can believe it to be a sin, and can even preach so. That right is not being taken away.

If religious freedom is absolute, then why can't someone practice Sharia Law? Why can't Warren Jeffs marry several teenage girls? Why was my church deprived of its right to practice polygamy?

Karen R.
Houston, TX

I recall a commenter on another thread on this issue made the point that Hobby Lobby buys many of its products from China, where abortion is government sponsored and readily available upon request. Yet, while HL does this voluntarily - no one requires them to buy products from China - the owners don't seem the least bit troubled that their money is almost certainly being used to support abortion there. So why the self-righteous cries here?

I think this is an excellent - and revealing - point. My thanks to the person who made it. I wish I had been able to track it down in order to give you the credit you're due.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Redshirt: "To "Tyler D" actually secularism is a religion. A religion is defined as a set of beliefs adhered to by faith. Since Athiests cannot see the entire universe, they rely on faith that God does not exist, and hold to their beliefs based on that faith."

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Please tell me that you know the difference between atheism and secularism! The Constitution is a secular document. Does that mean that the fathers of our country were Atheists? Do you not believe in our constitution because it does not talk about God?

Is Agnosticism a religion? Are you not an atheist too? Do you believe in Jupiter? Juno? Venus? How about Thor? Maybe atheists just don't believe in one more God than you do, right?

Hobby Lobby is NOT being forced to do anything they don't want to. They have other alternatives that they do not want to take. They just want their cake and to tell everyone working for them how to eat it too.

Noodlekaboodle
Poplar Grove, UT

"If religion and those that support religion do not comply with secularism they are labeled as narrow minded, bigots, and discriminators."
And if I tell people i'm an atheist a certain percentage of them will assume I am an amoral person, because if I don't have the fear of going to hell than it's not possible that I could be a good person. People are allowed to think whatever they want about you, it's not the governments job to make people stop calling you names. If society in general has a shifting viewpoint you'll either have to change what you believe or get used to being a minority in that belief. I mean, we haven't banned the KKK or Westboro Baptist Church, even though their views are more despicable than the average religion. It isn't fun when the rest of society disagrees with you, but it doesn't mean you get to force them to believe what you believe.

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