I am sure that this young man had the "right" to carry out his chosen
"sport." However, I used to love rock climbing, and found it difficult
to give up. That choice was made much easier once I had a wife, and even more
so when I had children. Once those milestones were reached, my "rights"
changed. I then had a responsibility to others, and a responsibilty to provide
for them. As Paul says in Corinthians, "When I was a child, I spake as a
child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I
put away childish things." Whilst I don't wish to sound judgemental, I
think that this young man would have been wiser thinking of his wife and unborn
child than thrill seeking. My heart goes out to his wife, unborn
child, parents and other family members. Also to his friends. Such a sad
I have to ask what value is it to anyone other than yourself to do extreme life
threatening activities? There are many dangerous activities, but most are
regulated by strict codes, etc. like drag racing, car racing, skydiving, etc,
that fall into another category to protect the participants and public. Base
jumping is an outlaw activity that seems to be largely for one's only
selfish pleasure regardless of the endangerment and cost generated to arrest,
prosecute, or retrieve a body. I see no social value to these selfish
patriotyour line does not equal somebody else's line. Let them
do as they please, as foolish and as dangerous as it is. Each man has the right
to choose what they do for fun.
Brahmabull, I'm not Hindu but I enjoy reading Ghandi's
wisdom and applying it to my life. I'm not African American but have found
inspiration in MLK's words. I'm not a male, but have borrowed
Lincoln's wisdom in dealing with life's struggles. You'd be
better off erasing the lines you draw in life and releasing yourself from the
knee-jerk desire to reject wisdom from sources you don't necessarily
re:AzTimGreat point. Spot on. Everyone needs to "get away"
but as with everything there is a line that should not be crossed. Base jumping
crosses that line.
Brahmabullsandy, utYour view is very narrow. Elder
Bednar's good judgment transcends denominational boundaries. Do you also
reject the wisdom of Martin Luther King, Jr. because you are not a Baptist or
Mahatma Gandhi because you are not Hindu?
yarrlydarbDifference between druggies and base jumpers: drugs change
the state of mind, which causes the druggies to try to get more drugs, and steal
from people, or hurt or kill people in the process. I have yet to hear of a case
where a base jumper is so addicted to it that he must have it so he kills a guy
and steals his car to drive to his next base jump to get his fix. Nice try. If
you hear of a story like that then I will retract this comment.
There are those who would say taking dangerous drugs is their own business and
to them the thrill of doing so makes it worth it.What is the
difference? None at all!
Nothing in life is certain except for death. Risk begins at conception. Life is
about risks. Without the risk-takers, life would be less livable for all of us.
Columbus took a death-defying risk by sailing beyond sight of land. Most of the
conveniences we enjoy today are the fruits of those who were willing to take a
risk. In many cases, the risks cost the “adventurers” their lives
and those of their cohorts in seeking a newer thrill or achievement. How many people have given their lives so that others can comfortably read a
magazine in a pressurized steel tube at 35,000 feet where life would otherwise
be impossible? How many innovators have died in race cars that have lead the way
to making daily driving more safe for everyone else?To discount ANY
activity because someone else disapproves of the “risk” or sees no
benefit from it is to deny ALL scientific, medical, technical, religious,
psychological, etc. advances since the beginning of life on earth. I
enjoy the benefits of the risk-takers without having had to bear their burdens
or costs. I don’t mind paying for my share of their efforts.
U-tarYeah I am in no way saying that base jumping is safe. I
personally do a lot of things outdoors that are dangerous, but I would never
ever base jump. I just don't think we should condemn or ridicule anybody
who does it, and it shouldn't be illegal. Of course in hindsight it looks
foolish, but many things we do are foolish.
BASE jumping is selfishness at the core. The jumper puts his personal
gratification from the thrill of the jump over his spouse and/or child who have
an increased risk of becoming a widow or a fatherless child because of the
I guess I'm the only one that thinks it's pretty selfish for someone
who has a wife and children at home to take such extraordinary risks with their
lives? When you are single take all the risks you want, but when you have little
ones at home counting on you coming home I think it's selfish to put your
thrill seeking above the welfare of the people you brought into this world. I
guess it's sad, but I have a bit of a hard time feeling sorry.
To quote Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott, "You cannot change the laws of
physics." Doing a somersault off of a 400 foot cliff proved that. Sad for
their loved ones that these people don't have more sense.
I support their freedom to do dangerous stunts, but not when they are
illegal.However, I really resent that we taxpayers will end up
footing the bill to recover bodies, do investigations, etc. We need a law to
pass such costs on to the estates or families of people who do this sort of
bullit wasn't about religion it is about receiving sound advice.
chips should be on the ground not on the shoulder
Do we really need religious leaders to tell us that BASE jumping is dangerous?
Certainly wise words, but is that council "religious"? Does
it carry more weight if a church leader tells you than if your wise grandpa
does?Is BASE jumping a Religious issue?
I am sympathetic to the needs of people who defy death for the thrill of it all.
But I do not understand fathers of young children who put their lives at risk
for fun. Now there is an unborn child who will never know their
daddy. That is the greatest tragedy of all.
Its human nature that risk is part of our life. We can't stop it, we
can't control it, we can't criminalize it. But risk should be value
based to sustain a life. An infant learning to walk takes a risk, and child
going up and down stairs is taking a risk, and children playing are taking risks
so its human trait we can't deny as normal.How much pain a
person is willing to endure is where they limit their risks socially. Then level
of individuals skills and physical dexterity is not so equal. Experience is
probably the most dangerous element that risk takers get hurt with. With
experience comes complacency and disregard of equipment and safety condition.People are going to die and we cannot control it but they should not
endanger others for taking risk that put others at risk without consent. No one
knows their limits and nature can't predict it so we just bury those who
lose while other seek the same risks.Americans are born to take
risks for Freedoms and liberties that are a worthy risk, its our way of training
to defend this country from oppression and invasion.
Condolences to the friends and family of these two most recently deceased BASE
BrahmabullThanks for the wisdom on the increased odds of survival, makes
me feel so much better. You are right in one respect, people have the right to
be foolish; and I would never deny them of that.
Brahmabull:If I am not mistaken, you too, are Mormon. But, I
understand you are taking a little time off from the church for the time being.
I look forward to you coming back.However, you asked, "Why must
you relate every story to your religion?" Did you see my comment was
directed to Brave Sir Robin? Did you also know Brave Sir Robin is Mormon? So, I
am a Mormon showing a Mormon apostle's counsel to another Mormon. Does that
answer your question? As a reminder as well, Deseret News is Mormon-owned and
lots of Mormons come here.
U-tarLast time I checked there are people who have had their
parachutes not open completely on a base jump. Some have survived that happening
to them. So to say if the chute doesn't open, that's it, its over is
kind of over kill. I understand the odds are slim of making it out alive after
something goes wrong while base jumping. Either way, the body recovery
teams/search and rescue have had to recover and rescue people doing all kinds of
outdoor activities. Hikers get stranded on steep mountains, hunters get lost,
atv riders crash. None of those have to pay the bill for the rescue teams. You
can take all the precautions in the world and sometimes things happen. Let them
do what they love, you and I can do the same as long as it doesn't hurt
anybody but us.
Of course these kinds of "accidents" will occur and occur again and
again. There will be no stopping them due to the addictive thrill it is to
participate in something as dangerous as this.These
"accidents" are, of course, tragic to say the least, and we all feel
horribly for the pain it inflicts upon their surviving families, friends,
acquaintances and general public. But nothing makes them acceptable. Again,
however, they will never stop for the reason mentioned above.But
what should stop, I think, is for so much of the public and even news media who
idolize this dangerous behavior consisting of solely "for the thrill of
I'm terribly sorry for the loved ones these jumpers have left behind, but
it just isn't right to foist the cost of rescue and recovery for this
"adventuresomeness" onto those who would never engage in it or support
it. Please get a grip, adventuring community. Propose a solution
or it's certain one will be proposed for you. No insurance company in
their right mind will insure you, so one thing you might collectively consider
is pooling your resources to insure each other. Would you be willing to do
that, so as to continue your fun while avoiding becoming a burden, never mind a
sorrow and grief, when the occasional life is senselessly lost and family
Death needs to be lucky once, a base jumper or sky diver need to be lucky 100%
of the time -
Brahmabull, "More people die on Utah roads (by a vast majority) than
BASE jumping"Well, there are probably over a million drivers in Utah
and if they were all BASE jumping multiple times every day, then there would be
many more deaths. Oh, and by the way, if the parachute does not open, then you
can't LIVE with the decision.
Life is tenuous at best and anyone who drives a car along the freeways of the
Wasatch front gets that feeling like you have very little control and your life
is not your own. That is enough adrenaline for me.However, if people
really want to take these kinds of risks. They should be free to do so. It is a
free country. I just believe that if they are doing it they should have to
have insurance that pays the tax payers back for their rescue or recovery.
Everyone needs to know their limits. Activities that are safe for some may be
deadly for others. I know of a musician who has gained fame in some circles
merely because he was born with a heart defect. He decided that he needed to
climb up Mt. Olympus in SLC to commemorate his brother's death. However,
to pull off this stunt, he had to haul a whole team of medical professionals up
the mountain with him, and even with that, he still almost died.
It is so sad for the families of these guys. These guys are adults and they make
their own decisions. You can't force your son or brother to be smart and
use good judegment. Base jumping is playing with fire and eventually you WILL
get burned. The problem with this sort of activity is there are no second
chances. One mistake and your dead. One thing that goes wrong and your dead. The
wind may blow you slighly off course and you die. No second chances. These sorts
of crazy things should never ever happen but again you can't stop people
from being stupid. The real issue here is the family left behind. The mom and
dad who lost their sons. The wife who lost a husband. I'm an outdoorsman -
I hike I bike I canoe I hunt but everything I do gives me a second chance. Base
jumping should be banned.
I too appreciate that we all have personal choice. Hope that those who choose
sports that they love and recognize that they may die to achieve their thrills
do so with their survivors well provided for financially and emotionally. I also
hope that rescuers' lives are not put in jeopardy. Else let their bodies
lie in peace where they fall without depriving others of their family
members.From the article: Despite BASE jumping accidents that have
killed five of his friends in the past 12 months, Morroun's friend Peterson
said he will continue to pursue the sport he loves."None of the
friends I've lost would want me to stop," he said. "It's a
personal choice for everyone."
Re BrahmabullI'm not Catholic, but if a priest or a nun or the
Pope says something wise, I will listen, I'd be foolish not to.
Such risky behaviour puts others at risk trying to come to the aid of someone
who is injured or trying to recover a body. There was a recent death when
someone died jumping from an arch. His parents said it all. Think of your
There is a reason that this is illegal, yet experienced jumpers and even
instructors do it all the time. Sad, but illegal is still illegal. And
taxpayers will likely pay for it @belgie
1.96 Standard DeviationsWhy must you relate every story to your
religion? Most non-mormons don't care what a mormon apostle or prophet said
regarding a certain activity. That is like me giving you a jewish quote about
eating pork - it doesn't relate to you because you aren't jewish.
Plus, it isn't doctrine, it is just his opinion on the matter.
Belgie, you are not being insensitive; you're being rational. And, btw, we
all pay for the rescue/recovery efforts of these folks who choose to take far
greater risks than the rest of us.
Can you blame them for being "adventurous?" Answer: YES. There are
plenty of ways to be adventurous that do not involve a binary out come: you
either live or die. I met a young woman who was left with four children, a
mortgage, consumer debt, and a grieving heart because her husband loved free
rock climbing. Apparently more than his family, because climbing, skydiving,
and ultra light aircraft are generally exclusions from life insurance unless you
buy the exorbitantly expensive riders. He didn't and his 500K policy
yielded a nice round number - zero. Once a person has responsibilities to
others, maybe they should look for alternate ways to have "adventures"
where the "bad loutcome" is more likely to be a sprained ankle or a
broken leg -- rather than a closed coffin.
I hate to sound insensitive, but who pays for the rescue/recovery effort when
stuff like this happens?
Fear serves a purpose. It's trying to save my life. I check with my
feelings first before I'm a dear devil. There's a thin line before the
thrill of victory and the agony of defeat.Sad that things happen
that was not expected. I feel for the family and friends for their loss.
Brave Sir Robin:Elder Bednar counseled against these kinds of
activities, if you are curious to know. His counsel is in the June 2010 Ensign
magazine under the title "Things as they Really Are." Here is a snippet
from the talk:"For example, all of us can find enjoyment in a
wide range of wholesome, entertaining, and engaging activities. But we diminish
the importance of our bodies and jeopardize our physical well-being by going to
unusual and dangerous extremes searching for an ever-greater and more
exhilarating adrenaline 'rush.' We may rationalize that surely nothing
is wrong with such seemingly innocent exploits and adventures. However, putting
at risk the very instrument God has given us to receive the learning experiences
of mortality—merely to pursue a thrill or some supposed fun, to bolster
ego, or to gain acceptance—truly minimizes the importance of our physical
More people die on Utah's roads (by a vast majority) then die base jumping.
Let those who want to test the limits test them and live with the results. Some
people aren't content doing things that don't give them a rush. Can we
really blame them for being adventurous?
Meh. Every activity carries some level of risk with it...this one just happens
to carry more risk than most (and more than I am comfortable with). But that
doesn't make it wrong. To each their own I guess...just don't make me
clean the mess up.
Gravity can be a Grave matter.
I know these 'extreme sports' are a rush for people. One word to
Good people, but with todays risk takers it is only a matter of time until a
catastrophy occurs. They used to have a saying in my flying airplanes days that
there are no OLD BOLD PILOTS. The same holds true today. Risk taking has its way
of collecting it's dues sooner or later. Frfiends and family, sorry for