BleedCougarBlue, the answer to the question is he is a football player. They
have special rights that no other human in America has.
Hmmmmm......I'm confused. This might be a misdemeanor in the legal sense
but drinking is against BYU's Honor Code so how does this not result in
Williams being temporarily suspended from the team? Maybe he approached Bronco
before the story broke/on his own?Good luck, Jamaal, to making
better decisions in the future.One way or another, we've all
been there.Go Cougars!
I can just see CB kicking and screaming because Jamaal and Bronco have already
dealt with this situation behind closed doors and whatever they've agreed
to will remain confidential.It's interesting that the
individuals who have the least respect for BYU's Honor Code are the same
individuals who are the most adamant about seeing it strictly enforced.They obviously completely misunderstand the fundamental purpose of the Honor
Sorry to disappoint the BYU haters, but despite their dire, unfounded
predictions, Bronco and Jamaal already addressed this issue over a month ago and
it's already been resolved.Nothing to see here, move on.
Is he over 18 but under 21?
Chris,You quoted me word for word. What part do you not understand?
So, Chris. What do you think should be the penalty for these "multiple"
infractions? I have a feeling that no matter what it ends up being, you are
going to scream.I'd be interested in hearing ahead of time what
you think the penalty should be.
Y Grad / Y Dad,He's a well known football player charged with
breaking the law. This would be news at any University. Am I vindictive? Well,
if the article was about a Utah football player it would be followed with 400
comments from happy valley.
Veritas"I would, but I lack you character and high moral
standards"You would lie to the honor code office? Isn't
that against the honor code? I guess the honor code doesn't mean much
Chris BSalt Lake City, UTcougsndawgs,So
should Jamaal exercise his legal right to lie to the honor code office as well
if that could possibly lead to reduced consequences? After all, its his legal
right to do that right?---------------------------I would, but
I lack you character and high moral standards.
cougsndawgs,So should Jamaal exercise his legal right to lie to the
honor code office as well if that could possibly lead to reduced consequences?
After all, its his legal right to do that right?
ekuteLayton, UT"It's a matter of public record, you
can't keep it out of the news. If you're so proud of you're
"higher standard" than don't complain when you're players are
held to it."Vindictive much? No body is complaining that he is
being held to the honor code, just that it doesn't need to be compounded by
spreading it all over the headlines. It IS a matter of public record. What
transpires between him, the Honor Code office and his coach is NOT a matter of
public record, and it is not hypocritical or inconsistent for BYU fans to be
"proud" of our higher standard, but wish kids who may have run afoul of
it could work out their circumstances in private.
Chris:One more time then I'm done because this is getting redundant.
If you know the law having worked in that field there are only 3 pleas one can
make: Guilty, not guilty, or no contest. The law stipulates that a guilty plea
or no contest plea are the defendant waiving due process and accepting the
penalty.The judge also understands that a not guilty plea is NOT the same as
saying your innocent. You said a plea in abeyance is "saying he didn't
do it". Not true in all cases (and you know that). It is a temporary stay on
the charges and punishment with stipulations and time parameters for the
defendant to prove themselves and not get into further trouble. This in no way
infers that the defendant is being dishonest or lying. My brother went through
this process and admitted his guilt to the prosecutor and the judge (I was there
with him) but used abeyance to show that he would comply with the law in the
future, thus keeping it off his record. At no time was he lying or dishonest
with the judge or prosecutor.
@Cougndawgs, I understand the legal process very well, I worked in the legal
system for a couple of years. But you're still confusing his
legal right with honesty. Of course a plea in abeyance is often used and of
course it would lead in less punishment. But citing how often its used has
nothing to do with the question of "Was Jamaal honest"Cougsndawgs, if you're under the belief that anything that is legal is
also "honest", I'd suggest you learn a little more about the legal
process. A plea in abeyance IS saying he didn't do it. At that
time the accused can get together with prosecutor and attorney and they review
how much evidence there is and negotiate a lesser deal. But its dishonest to
deny guilty to the judge if(I said if) in fact a person is guilty. If Willaims could deny guilt to the honor code office should he also do that
Cougsndawgs? After all, that similar to denying guilty when replying to the
charge right? After all, then maybe he could negotiate a much less sever
punishment with the honor code office. Isn't that your reasoning?
@moderateinmagna, I'm not sure where you're getting confused. Its
quite simple really. If Bronco and the honor code department review the
situation and conclude there is evidence he did indeed drink, and if Williams
continues to deny he drank(as he plead not guilty to the charge of underage
drinking) that would be dishonest - as he told the judge he was not guilty of
drinking. Would lying be another honor code violation?I've
never suggested he doesn't have the same rights as anyone, but again, just
because he may have a legal right to do something has nothing to do with honesty
or the honor code. Its legal to lie. However, its against the honor code to
lie. So if he lies and says he didn't drink and yet if(notice, I said if)
there is evidence he did drink, would that be another honor code violation?Like I said moderteinmagna, not sure what part of this confused you.
Let me know if I can help you understand further. Williams is a
great talent, and I just recommend he be honest. I'm shocked anyone would
disagree with that.
Chris BSalt Lake City, UTIf he pleads not guilty is that an
additional honor code violation if its determine(by the honor code or bronco)
that he did drink?After all, isn't being honest part of the
honor code?He broke the law and should suffer the consequences.dont
try to say anjybody is misquoting you here is the exact thing you said and
you did say[ honor code or bronco] so who is misquoting you.
TedH & Idablu:I'm simply trying to explain to Chris that pleading
not guilty does not mean the accused is saying he didn't do it (lying, as
Chris is insinuating with Jamal). People plead not guilty because by doing so
they can meet with the prosecutor and discuss options like plea in abeyance that
will be better for Jamal in the future. If he just pleads guilty that goes on
his permanent record, while plea in abeyance allows him to meet certain
stipulations and time without further delinquency established by the judge,
after which the charge and conviction are wiped from his record. That is not
being dishonest it is utilizing due process to give an 18 yr old a chance to
prove himself and provide the best outcome for him. If Chris understood that
half of accused persons use not guilty pleas to allow them a plea in abeyance
option, he would realize that it's not dishonesty, it's about seeking
the best possible outcome even if one is in fact guilty. Jamal isn't
necessarily saying he didn't do it, he's making sure he is doing
what's best for his future.
Thank goodness he did this in March - We need him come September. Oh and I have no idea what he did as I am forgetting it right now. But I am
getting a Tee Shirt together that says "Free Jamaal" You
know as in give him the ball and break him out of the backfield and let Jamaal
run free - what else did you think I meant?
Gotta go with Chris on this one. You guys are making a bigger deal out of his
post than it really is.
Veritas: I'm a BYU fan but I don't see where Chris has implied Jamaal
isn't due the same rights as anyone. But legal doesn't equal honest,
and that's what Chris is pointing out.
Chris B:Pleading not guilty does not mean Williams is being dishonest.
Part of due process is the ability to enter a plea in abeyance. In order to get
a plea in abeyance one has to plead not guilty even if they were in fact
breaking the law. It's a legal issue, not an honesty issue, but leave it to
you to judge so quickly. A plea in abeyance allows him an opportunity to clear
it from his record while pleading guilty would stay on his record. It would help
to understand how the law works before throwing further accusations at people.
Williams, 18, was charged with being a minor with a measurable concentration of
alcohol in his blood, breath or urine, a class B misdemeanor, for an unspecified
incident on Feb. 16.----------What was the unspecified
incident, a party? Then big deal. If so I wonder how many else got
arrested?As far as the honor code, that's between him and the
@aggie5"These type of issues would never happen in
Logan."Uhh....you must have missed the whole Jarred Shaw drug
bust in December. You know he was your leading scorer on the basketball team
that got suspended and had a 10 day stint in jail for drugs. Couldn't have
happened at USU? This would be considered problem at any institution because he
is underage and it is illegal. This isn't just an honor code violation
people. Yes some institutions would just sweep it under the rug, but
that's just how some institutions do things
Buster and utah ute,Wow you guys are making all sorts of things up
and misquoting meNever did I suggest he shouldn't have the same
legal rights as anyone. I simply said he should be honest. Or do you think being honest isn't part of the honor code?Are
you two seriously justifying lying?I have been clear that IF(never
did I conclude he broke any law) he broke the law he should be honest. Can't believe some of you are disagreeing he should be honest.
Chris B is right. If Williams drank when he said he was innocent it's an
Honor code violation. I'm a Cougar fan and like Bronco but some of our fans
want separate rules for the football team. How sad.
Chris BSalt Lake City, UTVeritas,I said very
clearly "if" it's determined he drank. Would disagree
that being dishonest goes against the honor code?And if(like I said
the first time, if) he drank should he be honest and admit it?===============Chris BSalt Lake City, UTIf he
pleads not guilty is that an additional honor code violation if its determine(by
the honor code or bronco) that he did drink?After all, isn't
being honest part of the honor code?He broke the law and should
suffer the consequences.=================Dude, you said honor
code or Bronco. You never mentioned his rights as a citizen.Then
claimed he broke the law and should suffer the consequences.No
mention of court, due process, or the right to state his case. Like
I said, you went way over your line.I say it would go a long way to
man up and give the kid an apology.Words come back to bite you
Sorry Chris, but you've gone way over the line on this one expecting anyone
to give up his Constitutional Right to due process.Aren't
people of other religions also expected to tell the truth? Or do people of faith
automatically surrender their constitutional rights to due process?As is said in the Bible, he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.
Darren, He has been accused of underage drinking. Pleading not
guilty means he denies the truthfulness of the charge. I agree it
has implications for how it goes through the court process. But honesty is
Just aren't anymore more role models in any sport at any university in
college sports, so glad I grew up in the day where you could look up to sports
figures without finding out later they were losers
Veritas,I said very clearly "if" it's determined he
drank. Would disagree that being dishonest goes against the honor
code?And if(like I said the first time, if) he drank should he be
honest and admit it?
@EdGradyI agree with your comment with a slight chuckle.
Unfortunately, I fear his punishment will be more severe, if he was indeed
drinking, and based on the evidence presented in the article, he was.I am just frustrated that with so much riding on this little indiscretion--his
career, his teammates, his coaches--he chooses to do that anyway. Yes we all
make mistakes, especially when we are young. But still puzzling to me,
From what I hear about his mom, if I were him, I would fear her much more than I
would the Court or BYU if she finds out it's true. She's a class lady
and Jamaal will have lots of "splaining" to do
Slap his wrists - put him in some type of counseling - get him on the field.
Chris B,A not guilty plea doesn't mean Jamaal is denying his
guilt, it simply means he is forcing the court to prove his guilt. (It
doesn't make much sense to me either, I would think the term not guilty
means he is saying he is innocent. The difference is whether the court needs to
prove the guilt.)I personally think that if Jamaal had alcohol in
his blood, breath, or urine, it would be pretty hard to win with a not guilty
plea. Maybe there is something he and his attorney have up their sleeve.Remember, if there is any shadow of a doubt regarding his guilt, he will
be ruled innocent.
No way! Due to the honor code, this just doesn't happen at BYU like it does
at all the other schools across America. Good talent.
Eighteen is the age of stupid. Fortunately a few escape the blight. Obedience to
gospel light and principles is the key.Some Kids learn it at a much younger age
as taught and observed in their family life, other learn it the hard way.
If the kid wants to make it right, then Ute and Cougar fans should all want this
18 year old to succeed.The Rivalry banter is still pathetic...
Unless proven otherwise, Jamaal is not guilty, period. You can bet his mother
The Honor Code really has nothing to do with this. It is a violation of Utah
State Law for anyone under the age of 21 to possess or drink alcohol. As for
the BYU Honor Code the school will deal with this as it sees fit. Utah also has
team rules. If a player breaks a state law I am sure that is a violation of
team rules. Like BYU, Utah would deal with this at it befits its team rules.
Chris BSalt Lake City, UTIf he pleads not guilty is that
an additional honor code violation if its determine(by the honor code or bronco)
that he did drink?After all, isn't being honest part of the
honor code?He broke the law and should suffer the consequences.====================Wow, Chris B.The kid is guilty
already? He has no right to due process? Ya want me to mark it down?Dude, ya just went over even your own line...
Ed Grady,To clarify things a bit further regarding my last comment
...Underage (under 21) drinking is often referred to as consumption
or possession by a "minor" but the "minor" is in reference to
being under the age of 21 and not to being a "minor" in the sense of not
legally being an "adult."
My guess is that he probably gargled with Listerine which left a trace of
alcohol on his breath.
Ed Grady"Just curious, why is the Deseret News and the Tribune
reporting the arrest of a minor. I thought the identity of a minor was supposed
to be confidential."He's not a minor. He's an underage
drinker, but he's not a minor.
Lay off the kid. Let him work things out with his team.
Ooooops. Just curious, why is the Deseret News and the Tribune reporting the
arrest of a minor. I thought the identity of a minor was supposed to be
confidential. I'm not dismissing what Williams is accused of doing, but
when was the last time one of the locals newspapers reported the name of
16-year-old kid arrested for shoplifting?
If he pleads not guilty is that an additional honor code violation if its
determine(by the honor code or bronco) that he did drink?After all,
isn't being honest part of the honor code?He broke the law and
should suffer the consequences.
This is such a non-issue. Slap the kids hand and move on.
It's a matter of public record, you can't keep it out of the news. If
you're so proud of you're "higher standard" than don't
complain when you're players are held to it.
It's just sad. LDS or not, he's been there long enough to know better.
He's seen HC issues with other players in multiple sports. In my four
years at BYU I can think of only 2 times I ever even SAW alcohol (outside the
chem labs). Why put yourself in a position where these issues is even an option?
I'm hoping for the best for him though. Let's all remember that
he is more than just an awesome RB. He's a young man. A young man that
needs direction, guidance and support.
Nothing to see here.Everyone move on.
It is none of our Beeswax Buisness! Way to go DN and Utah County Dept. So we
don't know the whole scope between JW and HC. Enough for now.
I hope he misses zero football time for this. He's a teenager who made a
very minor mistake. Even as a Ute fan, I see no reason for BYU administrators to
do a dang thing on this other than issue Williams a warning. If there was a
second time then, and only then, should some kind of a field-time suspension be
As a BYU fan for 50 years I understand the honor code conerns here. As these
young athletes agree to the honor code (as Jamal did) then having been caught
making a choice contrary to the code, he should stand accountable to it now.
That said, it would be best if it is handled with sensitivity and
confidentially. This is between him and his coaches to work out as far as the
school is concerned.One could argue that the news media doesn't
even need to report these issues when they become aware of it (whether it is a
BYU player or a player for that school up north). We all make erroneous choices
in our lives, but it doesn't have to be broadcast to the whole community
unless it is a major deal - which this isn't in my book. Why is this a
public news story? I thought public floggings ended with the dark ages? I guess
These type of issues would never happen in Logan.Go Angie's!
Malihini,Given that he entered a "not guilty" plea, I have been
wondering if there isn't some credence to what you said. Either a person
has been drinking, or he has not. For someone to deny the charge *should* mean
that there is no merit to it. Of course, I also understand that if a kid got
caught doing something he wasn't supposed to do, he might also deny it
regardless of the facts. Hoping for the former, but, if the latter, then we can
chalk it up to lapse of judgment and look for him to be given a path to take
similar to that of Hadley, probably modified for the fact that he isn't
At Williams age, the Utah law says it is a violation to possess or consume any
amount of alcohol. This is one that is better left to the BYU and courts.
Because a single swallow is enough to convict, the case could result in a
conviction based on facts that are so minor that the University response could
vary widely. There is no need to prove a certain blood alcohol level (though a
breathalyzer is typically deployed), holding a beer in your hand is enough under
the statute to convict, even if he never licks the rim (remember it is for
illegal possession or consumption).He has plead not guilty. I
suggest that we wait to comment on much until the outcome of the case. Even
then, we should offer our support to both Jamaal and to the coaches and
administrations who will certainly impose sanctions if he is found guilty. I
have prosecuted many of these cases and the outcomes can vary widely even if
there is a plea. Sounds like a good case for a plea in abeyance (if there was
indeed a convictable offense).
Wow, he was fingerprinted and photographed for this? Was charged with a class B
misdemeanor? Seems like an overreaction by Provo's finest. I guess that
is what the law is, but still...seems a bit much. I mean he wasn't
driving. According to UT's strict drinking laws he may have only had one
drink or two. Seems like the over-zealous police force in Provo went a little
over the top.
There is an awful lot of speculation going on here. He plead not guilty.
Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? I am sure we will
all find out whether or not he is guilty in the next few months and then decide
if we will be judgmental or just not appoint ourselves to be his judge. I still
believe that if all of our choices were in the headlines of the local newspaper,
none of us would be completely happy to read about ourselves.
Kids do dumb things. If this is the worse thing he has done, I can live with
One thing for certain - Williams will know if people are trying to help him or
FOX reported it first. It puts the Deseret News in a difficult position if they
don't report it...as if they are trying to lay cover for BYU.
This is a tough business for BYU and it most certainly will continue to be but
all students enrolled at BYU are under obligation to keep the standards of the
school and If this report is correct Jamal Williams did not make a mistake but
he made a choice. I don't like how often the word mistake is
used in our language. Depending on the context, mistake often connotes non
responsibility, ignorance of the obligation and/or excuse and calls for a
dismissal of the wrong without full consequence. Mistakes have consequences too
and are sometime very tragic but they are made without willful intent. An
example of a mistake might be to add a pound of butter to a recipe when a 1/4
pound is needed or forgetting to carry the 1 in a simple math problem. Choice is a word that is used far to little and like mistakes may have
unintended consequences but even so, choices are made with willful intent for
good or for bad and the chooser is left without excuse. If the
story is correct, I expect and hope for a future similar to Kyle Van Noy.
"I thought BYU/DN was not going to report this stuff anymore."You're right with BYU, but DN never agreed to not report it. The purpose
of their entire business is to find the inside information and report it.As you can see with the article, there is no comment from Mendenhall,
Holmoe, or anyone involved with BYU. They will follow the new policy unless
Jamaal decides to personally announce what he did.The one exception
that BYU gave with their rule is if the police are involved in a criminal
investigation, which would be this situation. So this story actually
doesn't apply to BYU's policy of staying quiet on this.
This is being reported by those who are assigned to keep tabs of the
police/court records. It's pretty common practice by reporters.
BYU's not reporting anything pertaining to honor code issues but this is
public record through the courts. I don't think this will be a huge deal
with the honor code as far as being suspended from school. It will most likely
involve some procedures of accounting and follow-through to show the right
lessons are learned through both the HC office and the team/coaches. If I were
Jamaal, I'd make sure I followed every detail of what I'm asked to do
and move forward a better person. His biggest worry is probably facing his
Mom-- a police officer and strict lady he respects-- a lot. That could be
Ooooops. Just curious, why is the Deseret News and the Tribune reporting the
arrest of a minor? I thought the identity df a minor was supposed to be
Re: I thought BYU/DN was not going to report this stuff anymore.This
is a legal issue. In Utah county, his arrest information is public information.
There You Go Again......not reading the article. This wasn't
reported by BYU; it was picked up from the police report. The DN reported that
BYU wasn't going to comment on honor code violations.
I so agree. Why is this a big headline? Let the school and the coaches work with
this fine young man in private.
I thought BYU/DN was not going to report this stuff anymore.
I hope Utah fans will be wise and lay off the smack on this one. Police blotter
smack is bad karma, and every university in the country is going to deal with
something like this (or worse) sooner or later. Such is the nature of college
kids.Best wishes to this player - hope he can get his life in order.
How does the media get this information? Does the Deseret News hang out at the
jail to see if any BYU athletes make a mistake, or does BYU notify the newspaper
so there are no surprises later on? For the life of me I don't see why
this has to be in the newspaper. If a young man makes a mistake, let him work
it out with his coaches or whomever. Really I think it is none of my business
(as a member of the community and local predominant religion) what these
students do. Just one man's opinion.
Tradition! Spirit! Honor!
No way J...Say it ain't so
Wow, Jamaal Williams is still 18 years old. He runs the football like a man
among boys, at least when playing Idaho, Middle Tennessee State and so on. No
but seriously, the kid is a real talent and seems like a quality young man. If
he is found guilty here, that would likely result in some sort of stiff honor
code penalty, but I don't want to go there just yet. Young
people make mistakes. Heck, so do older people. It's tough with the honor
code though. Yeah, if I was a BYU fan, I would probably be crossing my fingers
here as well Tom in California. Jamaal Williams is a big part of the offense.
But the Cougars should win 10 games and likely more with that soft schedule next
Here we go again?? Where there is smoke there is fire?These young
men need constant mentoring if they're going to stay out of trouble. I am
one who is keeping his fingers crossed.