Comments about ‘Letter: Following Ike's example’

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Published: Monday, March 24 2014 12:00 a.m. MDT

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LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Agreed!

Thanks Roland for a practical, well founded and common sense letter.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Hungary was part of the Soviet Union. It rebelled. That action would be like New York deciding to leave the federation of States called the United States. The Soviet Union crushed Hungary's revolt.

Today, Russia has taken over an independent State, the Ukraine. The Ukraine is not part of "Russia". There is not longer a "Soviet Union". Russia has no more claim on the Ukraine than Pennsylvania has claim on New York.

Eisenhower correctly decided to not interfere in the politics of the Soviet Union.

We have a treaty with the Ukraine that requires us to interfere if the Ukraine is attacked. We are obligated to go to the aid of the Ukraine.

Obama thinks nothing of that treaty. He feels no obligation to do what is called for in that treaty. That should surprise no one who examines Obama's actions. No document will ever compel him to do his duty.

SEY
Sandy, UT

A treaty that compels us to militarily come to the aid of Ukraine is pure folly. As much as I dislike most of what the Obama administration has done, I'm grateful they've shown restraint in this matter.

That being said, I wish Eisenhower had shown similar restraint in Southeast Asia.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

You make me sad.

Could you please show me in the United States Constitution where military force against Russia over in Crimea is allowed?

Our Military oath follows;

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

When Russia attacks, call me.
When Crimea attacks, call me.
When Iran attacks, call me.
When Syria attacks, call me.

BTW -- America is a Free Country.
If you want to go to War, go there yourself.

I will defend the Constitution by following the Constitution.

Mark B
Eureka, CA

Mike is wrong today from his first sentence. Hungary was never part of the Soviet Union. It was part of the Warsaw Pact organized by Eastern Bloc countries to offset NATO. Once he gets the past straightened out, Mike can proceed to address the present and future.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah
Hungary was part of the Soviet Union. It rebelled.

Mark B
Eureka, CA
Mike is wrong today from his first sentence. Hungary was never part of the Soviet Union. It was part of the Warsaw Pact organized by Eastern Bloc countries to offset NATO. Once he gets the past straightened out, Mike can proceed to address the present and future.

8:38 a.m. March 24, 2014

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Thanks Mark.

And FYI - Mike...
The Ukraines isn't even a memeber of NATO, let alone the United States.

I'm glad Russia did not attack the United States for invading Iraq!

Ralph West Jordan
Taylorsville, UT

Mark B. is right on Target! Given enough time Mike Richards and the rest of the Right Wingers will get it worked out to where it is Obama's fault that they can't find the missing flight 370!

Kent C. DeForrest
Provo, UT

Mark B,

You act like this is a unique event.

Roland,

Thanks for another ray of intelligence and common sense amid the cacophony of conservative attacks on a President doing his job.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

From Wikipedia:

"The Warsaw Pact (formally, the Treaty of Friendship, Co-operation, and Mutual Assistance) was a mutual defense treaty between eight communist States of Central and Eastern Europe in existence during the Cold War. The founding treaty was established under the initiative of the Soviet Union and signed on 14 May 1955, in Warsaw. The Warsaw Pact was the military complement to the Council for Mutual Economic Assistance (CoMEcon), the regional economic organization for the communist States of Central and Eastern Europe. The Warsaw Pact was in part a Soviet military reaction to the integration of West Germany into NATO in 1955, per the Paris Pacts of 1954 but was primarily motivated by Soviet desires to maintain control over military forces in Central and Eastern Europe which in turn (according to The Warsaw Pact's preamble) to maintain peace in Europe, guided by the objective points and principles of the Charter of the United Nations (1945)."

===

I stand corrected.

Hungary was a member of the Warsaw Pact that called for military intervention if ANY member revolted. The USSR, another member of the Pact, acted, as required by the Pact.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

"We have a treaty with the Ukraine that requires us to interfere if the Ukraine is attacked"

Wrong again Mike. In fact the treaty was specifically written as a political document and not an international agreement.

" the Budapest Memorandum offers no guarantee of intervention. “It gives signatories justification if they take action, but it does not force anyone to act in Ukraine"

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

Roland,
Comparing BO to Ike would be insulting if it were not so funny! Why not compare BO to LBJ, who sat back in 1968 while Soviet tanks rolled into Prague? Could it be because even good liberals recognize LBJ as a failure with his escalation in Vietnam and his administration becoming known for its “credibility gap” (a fancy way for his administration to say they realized people knew them to be liars)?

You do realize we were in a nuclear arms race with the USSR during Ike’s time, and we are not now? That DOES make the circumstances just a LITTLE different.

You say Ike’s decision was vindicated by history – the Hungarians, and by example the rest of Eastern Europe, being forced to live in servitude to the Soviets, being denied basic human liberties, rights, and dignities for another 30 years, for another generation, is vindication? WOW, your definition of success sure is odd.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

pragmatistferlife,

The Budapest Memorandum of 1994 states:

"2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations."

(Russia used treat and force to annex the Ukraine.)

"4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used."

(Has Obama gone to the United Nations to force Russia to back down, or he just sputtered on the world stage, shaking his finger at Putin and threatening to seize the assets of 20 Runssians?)

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Tell you what --
If the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland attack Russia and spearhead the invasion like they did in WWII, let's support them in the their efforts.

We already know what going it alone looks like.

BTW -- Has anyone from the Ukraine gone to the United Nations for help or cried foul?

Because all I see and hear coming from that part of the world is Crimea voted, they are being annexed into Russia, and not a single peep coming from UN HeadQuarters in New York.

Only the mindless mantra of War from chickenhawks from the uber-far-right-wing radio and pundits.

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

Let's be honest here. There is nothing you, Obama, GWB, Mittens, even the half-term Alaskan governor/comedienne or anyone else can do to stop the Russians from taking over Crimea and unless I missed something the Ukraine proper has not been overrun. Even though Crimea is officially Ukrainian it's not historically. Anything other than hitting Russia in the pocketbook is nothing more than chest pounding for the benefit of the Sunday talk shows.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

Mike, "(Has Obama gone to the United Nations to force Russia to back down, or he just sputtered on the world stage, shaking his finger at Putin and threatening to seize the assets of 20 Runssians?)"

Seriously Mike? The treaty and sanctions were written to include Russia because they are one of the two major players in the UN. They currently are the transgressors. Should we go to them and ask them to sanction themselves. or do we avoid wasted time and the inevitable and join with the rest of the effected players to construct meaningful sanctions that each individually and all as a group can bring to bear on Russia?

FT
salt lake city, UT

I always enjoy reading the back and forth of posters with the history and constitutional lessons a few always seem to be given (but rarely taken). Prudence is being used by BO and why not? We're more likely to have a terrorist attack on our home soil than Russia launching a nuke. The current Ukrainian situation should be treated as a marathon not a sprit. We need only look back on our mistake in Iraq to see what can occur with an ill thought out, knee jerk reaction. Patience, nothing will be gained by quickly escalating this crisis.

airnaut
Everett, 00

Pres. Obama is right, the GOP and all those on the right are wrong.
We don't need more "bayonetts and horses".

Just remember --

19 unarmed terrorists attacked the 2 World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon all while being "protected" by the single largest Military on the entire planet.

We don't need a bigger Army or Navy.

We need better intelligence, and a more Peaceful approach in the New 21st century World.

and,
The next Peral Harbor will be a cyber attack -- mostly like from the friends of WallsStreet and Corporations, the Communists in China.

HaHaHaHa
Othello, WA

So can all you pacifists and leftists explain why the anointed one is getting involved with sanctions? After all I can't find it in the constitution. We have no treaty in place that requires us, or obligates us to do it. The Ukraine is non of our affair. I say if we don't need military, we don't need sanctions. When they invade the US or sanction the US then we can start talking sanctions.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

airnaut,
the communists in China,

you mean the ones Al Gore sold computer technology to in 1996 to help fund slick's re-election campaign?

airnaut
Everett, 00

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT
airnaut,
the communists in China,

you mean the ones Al Gore sold computer technology to in 1996 to help fund slick's re-election campaign?

8:44 a.m. March 25, 2014

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Yes,
The same one's holding America economically hostage.

Wallstreet and Corporations have Shanghied us -- quite literally.

BTW -- Japan was that funny 3rd world country building cheap stuff and selling here in the 1920-1930's, and they used that money to build the Imperial Army and Navy prior to attacking us in WWII and Pearl Harbor.

Part of the reason they attacked us is because the U.S. was going to default on their debts to them.

China is following that same exact course.

Those who do not learn from histroy, are boudnto repeat it.

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