483bzak: As one who is recovering from lust addiction after 30+ years (porn
being a part of it) I can tell you without a doubt that I could not love my wife
and children until I was in recovery. All I cared about was me and my next
"fix". And I can tell you that, now that I know how to love, I love my
family in a real way. I care more for them than myself - something I was not
capable of when I was acting out. And, most others I know in recovery will tell
you the same thing.Hutterite - It is sad that we are all not worked
up enough to eliminate all porn from our society. Nothing about porn is good.
It is truly one of the great evils of our society, and the presenters at UCAP so
If we keep giving young men the message that the development of girls is more
important, they will increasingly go to that smiling face on the screen, who
doesn't judge them.
"They really try to keep you guys worked up about porn all the time,
As in the "experts"?
483bzac,I think we are not communicating very well. Likely I am not
understanding your point. All I know is those close to me who struggle are moody
and very self absorbed when they are involved and much more available and aware
of other's needs when they are not. This is the "love" I'm
talking about. Does this make them unfeeling or uncaring people in general? No,
absolutely not. I'm sorry I am not understanding your point better.
Imagination, attitude and perseverance makes things happen. Desire, believe and
expatiation. bakes the magic. At first things are appalling before you start to
accept them then you can embrace them. Kinda like slowly bringing water up to a
boil with a frog in the pot. So the Question is, to be or not to be [the frog].
That is the question.
@Jeanie. I now need from you an indication from the LDS church brethren or
anything other than some psychologist in Europe that agrees with you that porn
addicts can't love. It is pure absurdity and the fact that you are
entertaining this is sad. If you are interesting in helping addicts, drop this
"love" thing or find a peer reviewed source for it or a talk given in
General Conference that agrees with you. False doctrine, it is.
The solution to pornography is the love that we feel for the Lord. It is the
parents responsibility to help their children recognize this feeling and instill
in them a desire to always have this good feeling. Help them to recognize that
pornography will rob them of this feeling. Parents should have family prayer,
family home evening, and family scripture reading. Have children observe how
these activities make them feel inside.Read them stories of King
David and analyze the effect of his dwelling on Bathsheba after he saw her
bathing led to his destruction. Read how Jesus dealt with temptations, paying
them no heed. Read the story of how Moses is able to put Satan in his place.
If the child has viewed pornography have them analyze how it made
them feel and ask them which feeling they like better. Help them understand
that the good feeling they get from the Lord cannot exist with the feeling they
get from pornography. They must choose which feeling they want. If they have
lost this good feeling teach them that they can get it back.The
answer to combating pornography on a personal level is the love of Jesus Christ.
The conversation regarding pornography is always hijacked by the certainty
crowd. Rather than having an open dialogue about topics, they inject
preposterous claims about deep and complex issues that defy universal
description, like pornography and addiction. It goes without saying that
everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when opinions are presented as
unalterable truths, the possibility of productive dialogue diminishes. That
being said, an estimated thirty percent of internet bandwidth is dedicated to
"pornography". Whichever direction the debate goes in the future, it had
better encompass the clear assumption that the vast majority of people engage in
observing other people in a sexual manner, yet life continues.
The first thing today's parents need to understand about pornography is
that you cannot keep your child from seeing it. Period. If you have a boy over
the age of 8 or girl over the age of 12, they have already seen at least some
pornographic images. They may have come across them innocently, they may have
searched because they were curious, they may have been introduced by a friend
that you know is a "good kid."The relationship you establish
with your children when they are very young, the conversations you have with
them when they are very young - these are critical. Your child needs to know
that he/she can come to you with any question/problem, and you will help. This
does not mean moralizing. It does not mean "just say no." It means
answering their questions, addressing their concerns, helping them with their
problems, and not judsing.If you child is in middle school and
you've never talked to them about drugs, sex, pornography, whatever - you
are way behind the curve.
483bzac,I agree that it is not an all or nothing situation for addicts, I
believe they can still feel and demonstrate love, but it is diminished due to
their damaged perspectives. I also agree that other addictions limit the love
for others because any addiction distances people from healthy relationships.
However, the difference I see is with porn is the human body is the object of
addiction, a much more personal thing that drugs or alcohol or food. There is
hope and people who are addicted can fully love again and are worth fighting
for.Hutterite,Not sure who "they" are, but it is nice
to see this topic get air time. It's no different than the attention we are
finally giving to bullying, or texting while driving. Many lives are impacted
and something needs to change. I'm glad your life has not been negatively
affected by this, count yourself lucky.
They really try to keep you guys worked up about porn all the time, don't
These conversations seem more likely to happen, if the dad turns off the TV, and
the mom turns off her Facebook and texting.Cause porn has a cascade of
effects on humans.
@Jeanie There are several forums where pornography addicts are continually
reminded that they can't love. I think the assessment is wrong on a whole
bunch of levels. While it might be partially correct, it would be correct for
most other addictions as well. One controls the "natural" to do
everything better. I do not justify pornography at all. I am just saying that
those who want to stop the plague are not helping themselves by saying you
can't love if you are an addict. Addicts need to focus on using more of
their powers of pure love.
483bzac,Nothing about porn is healthy or good - nothing. It is completely
about lust and objectification, addiction or not. Porn is selfish and shuts down
real love. Viewing it adds nothing to a healthy physical relationship. It turns
an activity used to demonstrate love and companionship into using people as
objects to fulfill a person's lust. Physical intimacy is not bad, infact
it is absolutely good and desireable, but it is the polar opposite of porn.
"Annoying habit not wanted" trivializes the seriousness of this problem.
Your whole post seems to justify indulging in it as long as one can convince
themselves they are not addicted. Nothing about porn is worth defending.
Again, the parental relationship is key, not just parents to children, but
parents to each other. In a healthy family, one significant thing a child sees
throughout their life, something they hear and are around before they're
even born, is their father and mother loving each other. From before the time
they can crawl, the one thing they see and hear their parents do, besides loving
them, is loving each other.That's a big part of why such a
relationship is termed "healthy", and it's an important key in
understanding how and why pornography won't lead to joy; and not just
pornography, but undue sexual relations of any sort.
...."Pornography threatens the loss of love in a world where only love
brings happiness." This is an absolute and is faulty logic. It does no
service to those who are trying to ward off addictions, particularly porn
addiction. Yes, most any addiction, alcohol, prescription drugs, food, or other
annoying habit not wanted by a person alters their "to do/desire to do"
list of giving love. At least, it simply occupies the space of important
emotions. But the solution is as different for porn addicts as the Doctors
treatment plan for those with knee injuries, every injury/addict to porn, is
different. If porn alters love giving, then so does every other addiction
whether it is perceived great or small. You see, part of porn is natural. Adam
and Eve had "natural" bodies and those were, and ours are, not
inherently bad. The body just is not evil and is meant that we (they) might
have joy. Our job is to use it and our minds correctly. Porn, becoming an
addiction is not doing that. Careful, many addicted to lust don't
necessarily view porn.
Parents ARE key. Open communication, filters, and dilligence are critical. But
society has a responsibility to protect the vunerable as well and I wish IT had
the will to combat pornography and the objectifying of women. I don't know
that this time worn vice will ever be universally recognized for what it is and
pushed into the dark corner it crawled out of. There are too many who protect
it in the name of free speech and with the lame excuse that no one will agree
where to draw the line even if we do draw one. I am grateful for
those organizations and individuals who are willing to take a stand because I
recognize that inspite of a parent's best efforts kids can get caught and
it's a long and painful road to recovery.
Once children find friends who help them do pornography, it becomes an almost
impossible task for the parents to help the child. They teach each other all
kinds of ways to trick and confuse their parents. It becomes a game for them,
and those who are doing this as a friend group are not remorseful, except they
pretend to be when caught. It's very hard to get through to a child in
this situation. They know how to make it so that none of their porn viewing is
on your history or proved in any way. Follow your own intuition. If you know
that there is no way you can reach your child, his/her eyes are always glossed
over in FHE, can't seem to make any spiritual progress with them for long
periods of time, cold, rude, unfeeling, manipulative; something is wrong. Love,
do not attack verbally, but do confront. Fasting and prayer, repeated often,
consistent. God is your best friend. Also do everything you can. Time together.
Counselors (pray about who), bishop, home teachers, get people to reach out to
them. Never give up. It will take a while.
I do believe in using the available media controls. If children know what
pornography is and that it is a bad thing, it will still end up as a personal
struggle for each individual child; after talking it over parents may still end
up monitoring their children's activities endlessly. You can take away the
child's access to computers in your home. You can pull them out of school.
You can put off the struggle until the child leaves your home or gets out of
your sight. You can take the child to a church that teaches
"traditional" scriptural morality. I think the best suggestion made in
this article is to have a positive model of sexuality within marriage. It still
ends up as a matter for the adolescent's conscience and a frank talk
between prospective marriage partners.There are a lot of bad
messages out in media that need to be countered: the soaps watched by women
glamorizing and excusing fornication and adultery etc, the vulgarity and
immorality often presented as "normal" on sitcoms should also be
Parents have a tough job for sure, as children pick up on so much at school and
tend to think more of their peers opinions than of their parents. Relationships
are the key, to establish a good trust from early on and stay tight with that.
Parents are the key to (fill in the numerous blanks)….