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Brad Rock: BYU's Final Four drought could end with one addition

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  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    March 25, 2014 2:42 p.m.

    @poyman

    Just to follow up on what Utesby5 posted; which is totally correct. Utah finished ranked higher in basketball (per the Sagarin rankings) too; Utah #45, BYU #47. It's always good to actually know the rankings prior to talking about them.

    Let's face it, neither team did very well in either sport. The fact of the matter is that even when Utah had a bad year, they beat BYU on the field/court, and in the Sagarin Rankings. Those rankings were always the reference made when BYU fans would state the "we lost the battle, but won the war" slogan. I guess when you lose both the battle and the war, the Sagarin rankings are quickly forgotten.

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    March 25, 2014 2:17 p.m.

    When was the last time Byu lost in the NIT? oh Utah lost just last week in the NIT, i'll go with current events Alex for one hundred

  • UtesBy5 Syracuse, UT
    March 23, 2014 2:37 p.m.

    @poyman:

    "How long ago did UtahFB finish ahead of BYU in Sagarin's ratings?"

    Ummmm, how about last season? Utah #34 BYU #35

  • Crow Sandy , UT
    March 23, 2014 11:47 a.m.

    Jabari did so much for duke against Mercer I don't think he would have helped byu much

  • Ken Lee Pasadena, CA
    March 23, 2014 2:56 a.m.

    Uteology and Chris B love to talk elite programs, but they know, they will never have a national championship or conference championships in football or bball. So, what they do is point to their conference affiliation….which does nothing but keep them locked in at the bottom of that group. It's really quite funny. The Utes have had 2 good years in football, ever. And fewer final rankings since 2000 than big brother BYU. But, with some more funding coming in for all the poundings they absorb in the PAC12, they can expand their tiny stadium and at least appear to be in a power conference. No one will care, but they can use that money to hire new coaches and a better stadium to sit empty….we'll see. Go sub .500 Utes. Even in Utah, BYU gets all the press. Nationally, the Utes and Utah State are routinely confused even by real sports fans.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    March 22, 2014 6:38 p.m.

    Poyman:
    Utah's recruiting, at least in bball has been worse? I think not. They have some very good recruits coming in the next year. They will be very good in the years to come in basketball. Football is another story, I don't know that they will ever fully compete in the PAC12 in football, but in basketball they will definitely have some success. They're future looks bright on the hardwood.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    March 22, 2014 1:14 p.m.

    MyPerspective:
    Did you honestly not see the blatant sarcasm of CougarSundevil's post? Or just trying to pick what you wanted to hear.

    I concede Utah's superiority historically in bball, if Utah fans will give BYU football credit for their superior history to yours with achievements U have never had.

    About this article: BYU had major issues defensively and in rebounding this year. That's not something Jabari Parker would have changed because he's not a great defender but unlike Duke BYU would have had more mature junior players surrounding him. So yes, I think BYU would have gone further with him but not to the final four. The final four is reserved for teams with either great coaches or great players or both. Coach Rose is a good coach, not great, with good players, not great. When Utah went 16 years ago they had a great coach and a couple of very good players. That Utah team wasn't overly athletic but fundamentally sound with an intelligent floor general in Miller. I agree with another poster, until Rose teaches lockdown defense BYU will never be in the final four.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    March 22, 2014 12:55 p.m.

    The Utes are MUCH closer to competing in the PAC than byu is to the final four.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    March 22, 2014 11:44 a.m.

    I guess if you're a sports fan in the state and you have post season disappointments year after year the best thing you can do to take out your frustration is to try and throw rocks at your nemesis... misery often tries to recruit company.

    Unfortunately, Utah is not nor has it been at BYU's level of athletic success for a number of years now... It is true that the utes beat BYU the last four FB games and they even managed to beat BYU in BB this year (that hadn't been done since 2009 and they haven't beaten BYU in Cougarville since 2005... that's nearly 10 years ago)... But despite the ute wins the nation continues to view the Cougs as the best sports program in the Beehive state...

    When was the last time BYU didn't go to a Bowl game??? When was the last time Utah did? How long ago did UtahFB finish ahead of BYU in Sagarin's ratings? Or in RPI in Basketball? BYU has been invited to the Dance 8 times in the past 10 years... Utah has made it once... BYU has had excellent recruiting years... Utah's is getting worse.

  • mr. j Cottonwood Hts., Ut
    March 22, 2014 11:28 a.m.

    @ Blue and White

    While Jabari missed the boat, you have missed the point. To think that Jabari can only be a good representative of his church by going to BYU is wrong. Jabari is or isnt a good representative of the church by his faithfulness not the choice of his college. He has a chance to represent his faith to those who aren't familiar with it instead of those who already share it.

  • Samwise Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 22, 2014 11:14 a.m.

    lol Christopher B, you're the one to talk about sensible comments, aren't you? Since your anti BYU obsession leads to such "sensible" comments. With that said, I agree with the quote from Back Talk in your 1:31 post. Neither BYU nor Utah should be talking about prospects of a Final 4 appearance or Championships until they get close at least. Especially Utah. They should try getting in the tournament at least first.

  • Cedar Jim CEDAR CITY, UT
    March 22, 2014 10:40 a.m.

    What about the Elite 8 with Ainge and the boys? Or was that "ancient" history? Yes, it was fantastic to see the Utes make the final four and give Kentucky all they could handle. I was equality proud of both programs.

  • ClarkeinAK Anchorage, AK
    March 22, 2014 10:30 a.m.

    I don't live in Utah, so I'm not immersed in the BYU and/or UofU hype. Both teams are not taken seriously by anyone outside the Beehive State. And the major sports networks don't waste their air time mentioning them and regard them as a joke. Case in point, when BYUs seeding was announced, one of the announcers exclaimed, "I don't agree with that, they shouldn't be in at all", or something to that effect. Personally, I think it's a bit of anti-Mormon bias, but then, that's just me. Still...

    Until BYU quits being kings of 'one and done' in basketball, and aligns themselves with a conference in football, they will remain that way to the rest of the country.

    How do they do that? Improved coaching...killer instincts (we're too nice)...not be Utah (sorry, but it's not highly regarded by 'the outside world - why no NBA stars will come to the Jazz for example)...lots of things that can't be fixed by the one or two superstars the author proclaims as the 'fix all' solution -- one good run won't do it, it has be constant.

  • AggieAndee Holladay, UT
    March 22, 2014 9:48 a.m.

    BYU is more like 12 or 13 players away from a Final Four appearance. LOL!

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    March 22, 2014 7:39 a.m.

    @Who am I Sir?

    The good news for your bowl winning percentage is that it should stay high for a long time since not being included in a post season bowl should ensure that you won't have any more losses.

    Other than two BCS bowls, most of those wins came in years that U went to the lowest level bowls and played lower level competition than BYU. The reason? U generally finished lower in the conference rankings and the Y got picked before your for more competitive match-ups. U could get invited to a bowl game for the next 15 years and still not have as many bowl appearances as BYU...

  • agarrett PROVO, UT
    March 22, 2014 12:19 a.m.

    A lot of teams would make it to the final four "with one addition." Everybody wants a Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    March 21, 2014 11:46 p.m.

    @ blue & white

    Why should every great LDS player play for BYU? I understand it's the church's school. But Jabari Parker has a great opportunity to be a representative of his LDS faith playing for a different school. Think about it! It's a great missionary opportunity that Jabari has while he uses his basketball talents. It's good for the LDS church to get exposure by a good athlete playing in a different part of the country.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    March 21, 2014 10:27 p.m.

    Who Am I Sir?

    It appears you like numbers, since you mentioned football:

    BYU Football 1922 - Utah Football 1892, 30 years before BYU
    BYU 4 top 10s - Utah 3 - Edge BYU
    BYU 18 Top 25s, recent 2011 - Utah 5, recent 2010 - Edge BYU
    BYU 4 top 20 BCS rankings - Utah 3 - Edge BYU
    23 Conf titles, all 23 since 1964 - Utah 24, 6 in the WAC or MWC since 1964 - Edge BYU
    31 Bowls - 13 For Utah - Edge BYU
    0 BCS Bowls - Utah 2 - Edge Utah
    13 Bowl wins - 13 for Utah - Push
    1 National Ship's - Utah None - Edge BYU
    8 Hesiman Trophy Finalist - Utah 2 - Edge BYU
    1 Heisman Trophy - Utah 0 - Edge BYU
    As of 2008 146 BYU players in NFL, 48 played in Superbowls, 1 two time SB winner, 1 SB MVP - Utah 27 NFL, 5 played in SBs, 3 SB winners, 1 two time - Edge BYU
    4 Davey O'Brien award winners - Edge BYU
    7 Sammy Baugh award winners - Edge BYU
    1 Doak Walker Award and Jim Brown Trophy - Edge BYU
    2 Outland Trophy Winners - Edge BYU
    1 Maxwell Award Winner - Edge BYU

    You talk post season play, what is the percentage Utah has for playing let alone winning the National Championship? Answer, 0%.

    If you want to see a trophy case filled up great looking trophies, you'll have to drive down to Provo.

  • fireonthemtn Reno, NV
    March 21, 2014 10:14 p.m.

    Blue and White,

    Jabari Parker had to choose between a coach who can't seal the deal in the WCC and a Hall of Fame legend who is one of the greatest coaches in collegiate history. Jabari chose well.

  • fireonthemtn Reno, NV
    March 21, 2014 10:03 p.m.

    Here's another "what if" hypothetical question to ponder... What if Dave Rose could actually teach fundamentals and a player leaving the program would be a better player than when they entered the program?

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    March 21, 2014 9:25 p.m.

    "And for the last 30 years byu has proven what they are in the big dance."

    2013 SWEEP - And what is utah's "big dance" record for the past, let's say, 10 years? Let's see - they got pounded by a 12 seed Arizona State in the first round when utah was the 5 seed.

  • blue & white Boise, ID
    March 21, 2014 9:11 p.m.

    Jabari Parker missed the boat not going to BYU. what a nice opportunity to represent the school and church. He would have ended up going to the NBA no matter who his head coach was. thank goodness there are some great athletes who chose BYU over other schools, they have a dream to make BYU one of the best. we will get more of those great ones to add to the great athletes we have who have the vision to choose BYU.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    March 21, 2014 9:00 p.m.

    All this is true. Had Jabari signed with BYU and Kyle not been hurt, this would have been a final 4 year for BYU. I have been watching BYU basketball for a long, long time, and when we do have a good team, we are always one player short. We are never able to get enough good players or enough depth to win a championship. We'll have a lot more really good teams, but I don't think we'll ever make the final 4 in my lifetime. Odds are far better now because the one and out has eliminated the really great teams. There is more balance, but the game has changed too. It is not really basketball any more...at least not as it should be. Traveling is rarely called, the game is too rough, the shot clock is destroying the game, the 3 point shot has destroyed the flow and strategy of the game, etc. The goal is to take the game and make it playground basketball. BYU will never get enough of that type of athlete to win.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 21, 2014 8:16 p.m.

    @MacNasty

    When I posted the 2009 football preview I thought I should update that to current figures.

    Utah's record is currently 13 wins and 4 losses (77% winning record. Still the highest in the nations among teams with more than 10 games!) BYU's 13 wins 18 losses and 1 tie (winning percentage of 42%.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 21, 2014 7:53 p.m.

    @MacNasty

    "Bottom line is that a national sports entity has ranked BYU #16 of all D-1 schools which participate in football and basketball."

    Facts: Basketball NCAA post season history: Utah 27 appearances : 35 wins; 30 losses (53.8%) BYU 28 appearances: 15 wins; 31 losses (32.6%) If BYU won the next 20 games it would still have a lower % than the U!
    Football: Phil Steele's 2009 college football preview listed the all time post season records for all the Division 1 football teams. There were 74 teams that had played 10 or more post season games. Which of the 74 teams had the highest winning percentage? That's right - UTAH at 78.6% (And it wasn't close as the next best team had a 70.0%) On the other hand, which team had the worst winning percentage? No it wasn't BYU. There were 4 teams with a lower percentage than the Y!!! (But it was close as two of four teams were within 2.4% of BYU's 35.2%)

    Nice try to put meaning into CBS comments that obviously was not there!

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    March 21, 2014 6:37 p.m.

    @Levin

    You said "That list seems to be based on teams in the tournament this year. If, by some miracle, Utah had made it to the Dance, they would probably have been on the CBS Sports list as well."

    You need to read my post and the article before commenting. Considering Utah has a losing football season for two years running and has had a losing basketball program (except this year with a very weak schedule), Utah will not even come close. Sorry.

    Yea the teams are in this year because they win in basketball and football, have been doing so for a while and are well established. Sorry again

  • Vegas POV Las Vegas, NV
    March 21, 2014 6:17 p.m.

    Transfers from other programs seldom make a team better. Aytes who was benched from a UNLV team that didn't even qualify for the NIT and Fisher from a Wake Forest team that had their first winning season in several years but still didn't qualify for post season play is supposed to make BYU a Final four contender? How well did it work when Collinsworth got injured and the UCLA transfer Carlino suddenly was thrown onto the court? Solid recruiting and not inheriting others problems is the way to go from my perspective.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    March 21, 2014 5:40 p.m.

    "BYU's Final Four drought could end with one addition"

    An addition of Jabari Parker didn't help Duke in the first round. He wouldn't have made much of a difference if he played for BYU.

    If BYU ever wants to make a trip to the Final Four, then they need to play a championship caliber defense. BYU hasn't had a very good defense in a long time. If BYU thinks that they can make a run in the tournament with a couple of great players, then they'll be in for a rude awakening come March. Look no further than BYU's 2011 team who were loaded with great shooters, but they couldn't advance beyond the Sweet 16 round. Having great players can only take you so far. But great defenses will take you even further.

    Defense wins championships!

  • Funny/witty screen name Orem, UT
    March 21, 2014 5:37 p.m.

    Utah basketball is only history. Presently, they are not very good.

  • Levin Reno, NV
    March 21, 2014 5:13 p.m.

    @MacNasty: That list seems to be based on teams in the tournament this year. If, by some miracle, Utah had made it to the Dance, they would probably have been on the CBS Sports list as well.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    March 21, 2014 4:40 p.m.

    FYI: For Ute fans and BYU haters,

    An article at CBS sports titled "Seeding NCAA tournament football/basketball combos 1-16" (cbssports.com, March 19, 2014) ranks BYU #16 in the nation. Utah is not mentioned. The article states that "one off year won't kill a well-established program. Two might."

    Bottom line is that a national sports entity has ranked BYU #16 of all D-1 schools which participate in football and basketball.

    Utah is not listed.

    If you disagree, write CBS.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 21, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    @CougarSunDevil

    Every post you, all of Chris B's monikers, and Utelogoy make on BYU articles only confirms my point. You guys can't let go of BYU. They are too important to U.

    ----------

    Imagine that a rival being an important team. Wow!

    One thing for sure, unlike "some" BYU fans I never had to pelt officials with garbage after yet another loss ... even during the 80s when BYU owned us.

    Like BYU's fans like yourself have NEVER post on Ute articles, right? You post more on Ute articles then you do for your first and second team combined.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 21, 2014 4:23 p.m.

    It only takes one or two great players in basketball and you’re in business.

    -----------

    It only takes one or two NBA prospects in basketball and you're a final four contender.

    Utah has one so far, hoping Chapman is the other.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2014 4:08 p.m.

    "Drought"

    Doesn't that sort of imply something happened, then it didn't happen for a long time.

    When was the first time it happened(final four for byu in this case)?

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 21, 2014 4:08 p.m.

    "Ya, its fun to play the "if only" game"

    Like the kids living under the crimson bubble playing "if only" we still had a program like we had in 1998.

    Unfortunately for U, that program died over a decade ago, and despite the yearly predictions about how much better the Utes will be "next year", the Utes haven't even sniffed an NCAA tournament win since Bogut left.

    The truth is, a team that is in the NCAA has an infinitely better chance of making the Final Four, than a team that is on the outside looking in.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2014 4:04 p.m.

    Tator :

    "To their credit, BYU doesn't pad their pre-conference schedule with lots of division II teams"

    LOL! In other words, none of the 8 best basketball conferences in the country want to invite byu and therefore byu is forced to schedule tough out of conference games because their conference is terrible. That sound about right?

    As for Utah, to Utah's credit they scheduled a very difficult conference schedule(yes, we picked it. We could have declined the Pac 12 invite and moved to a tiny conference instead. But we didn't, we chose to play tough teams year after year after year in conference play).

    Improving the dialogue tator? Ya, we'll believe it when we see it

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2014 3:53 p.m.

    Tators,

    You're like most byu fans. You rip on Utah often and then expect something different in return. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

    byu is the closest to an elite program we have? I disagree. Utah is one of the top 25 winningest programs in NCAA basketball history. Utah's history is the NCAA tournament dwarfs anything byu can throw out there. Elite programs perform in the tournament and considering byu doesn't have a history of ever really doing that, I'd say Utah's past of multiple deep tournament runs makes Utah closer to returning to elite level, as opposed to a byu team that's never been considered and elite team ever.

    1 sweet 16 trip in 30 years?

    You must be so proud.

    And you're right, Utah has finished in the bottom of the Pac 12 most times in basketball and football. And guess who can't beat that Utah team ever in football and at least the last time we played in basketball? byu

    However "bad" we are, you' cant beat us!

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    March 21, 2014 3:44 p.m.

    My Perspective

    "If byu fans will do that then Utah fans can focus on working through the challenges of being in an elite conference."

    Exactly what do "fans" have to do to work on being in a conference? Buying more merchandise? I think you can do that without burdening yourself by going to BYU articles and posting on them.

    Also, how does BYU fans 'admitting to Utah's superiority' (you missed the sarcasm of the post I think) effect Utah in any way, shape, or form? Just like I posted before. Utah will never be great in the PAC-12 because they can't let go of BYU. BYU is way too important to them. Every post you, all of Chris B's monikers, and Utelogoy make on BYU articles only confirms my point. You guys can't let go of BYU. They are too important to U.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    March 21, 2014 3:29 p.m.

    Jabari Parker? Duke just lost to Mercer. Rule of thumb has alway been that a college basketball team needs at least three NBA caliber players to make it to the Final Four. Will BYU ever get there? Who really knows?

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    March 21, 2014 3:22 p.m.

    @ Chris B:

    And when it comes to the PAC12 "power" conference, Utah has proven time and time again they are one of the "have-not" teams, by consistently finishing in the bottom half of the conference in both football and basketball. Have they ever had a winning conference record in either sport since joining?

    @ Alex T:

    You are totally wrong about there not being any what-if's in sports. Any time a star player for any good team goes down to injury, the what-if scenario becomes legitimate.

    BYU was a finalist in the Jabari Parker sweepstakes. As such, the "what-if" becomes a great question, had he chosen to come to BYU this past season. It was a reasonable possibility after he chose to visit the campus a couple of different times prior to deciding. There's no question BYU would've won some more of those close games to nationally ranked teams.

    And getting one national recruit like Parker could improve a team's recruiting for years.

    So yes, the what-if scenario is both real and legitimate when it comes to sports and the possibilities one decision of a single player can make.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 21, 2014 3:14 p.m.

    Add One more player who can shoot and what do you have? At most 5 guys on the floor at any time all trying to shoot. Until there is added passing, defense, rebounding, defense, assists, defense, etc. you will have the same tournament "history" that the NCAA must "honor"!

  • DrUte Woods Cross, UT
    March 21, 2014 3:05 p.m.

    Personally I have no problem with fans wishing for the stars, that's fine, whatever floats your boat..... But the bar is seemingly incredibly high now. "Kids" are coming out of high school with size, speed, and professional skills that are simply amazing.

    Competition for those "kids" is so extreme now teams are investing millions into buildings, equipment, broadcasting systems, and stadiums at a pace that could have otherwise resolved World Hunger.

    So now a national championship will require a combination of a slew of tangible and intangible factors --- recruiting, injuries, coaching, play-calling, facilities, marketing, etc etc, so many aspects it's difficult to say ANY team may ever be 'guaranteed' to win it all.

    Clearly, one thing the article failed to mention, and probably should have, would be that the primary/necessary requirement for ANY Utah team to win a national championship in a major sporting venue would be --- Divine Intervention.

    Perhaps that's something Utah would be good at, something we can ALL get to work on. :)

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2014 3:00 p.m.

    CougarSunDevil
    Phoenix, AZ

    "So, BYU fans, let's all admit that Utah has us on the ropes and admit to their superiority."

    Great idea. If byu fans will do that then Utah fans can focus on working through the challenges of being in an elite conference. Then, all of the nonsense on these sports boards will stop.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    March 21, 2014 2:38 p.m.

    @ Chris:

    I'm still curious as to why you are always one of the very first to comment on almost every BYU sports article. And why your comments concerning them are inevitably negative in nature... without exception.
    It demonstrates a very strong bias which makes it nearly impossible to give any credibility to your comments. I mention this only because I'd really like to see the level of online dialog improved. Currently, you're not helping.

    It's true that BYU is not currently an elite program.
    But it's also true BYU is the closest in the state to becoming one.

    To their credit, BYU doesn't pad their pre-conference schedule with lots of division II teams, but instead schedules multiple nationally ranked programs, beating some and playing very competitively against others. Positive step in the right direction.

    Even though some anti-BYU detractors try to dis BYU for not making it to the NCAA Final-4, it's easy to forget that only 4 out of about 350 programs get there every year. The odds are very low.

    Credit them for getting to the tournament more than any anyone else in the state in the past decade.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    @JP,

    You can split hairs if it makes you feel better, but the BCS still exists for all intents and purposes.

    College sports will continue to be ruled and dominated by the BCS power conferences.

    Call them BCS, call them power conference, call it whatever you want.

    Not much has changed. There are still have "haves" and the "have nots"

  • Alex T Murray, UT
    March 21, 2014 2:03 p.m.

    For the first time in a long time. Utah fans have a point. I agree with all of their comments. This article is extremely humorous. Any sensible BYU fan wouldn't agree with a thing Brad Rock had to say. There are no "what-ifs" in college sports. Until BYU can prove themselves on the court or the gridiron....enough with all of this.

  • JP Chandler, AZ
    March 21, 2014 1:53 p.m.

    @Back Talk

    This will take some getting used to, but there is no BCS. There are no BCS conferences. There are no BCS schools. There are no BCS bowl games. There is no BCS.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    March 21, 2014 1:40 p.m.

    I agree with most of the Utah posters on this article. BYU is not an elite basketball program. It doesn't matter that they've gone to the NCAA tournament as often as the article cites over the most recent past. They haven't done anything WITH it! BYU having gone to so many NCAA tournaments and only gaining ONE Sweet 16 appearance is clearly a non-starter. Now, us BYU fans need to recognize Utah for their superiority. Utah won against BYU this year. Never mind that they didn't win against BYU over the last 7 years, that's irrelevant. Don't bring up that they haven't been to the NCAA tournament since who knows when. And please, before BYU fans bring up your Sweet 16 appearance, don't forget that it was Utah who has won a NCAA basketball championship. It's irrelevant that it was before most of our parents were born and it's alright for them to bring that up, but it's "laughable" that BYU fans bring up the 1984 Football national championship. That doesn't count. So, BYU fans, let's all admit that Utah has us on the ropes and admit to their superiority.

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    March 21, 2014 1:35 p.m.

    Drought?? That makes it sound like it's been a long time since you've been there. Moses found the Promised Land faster than BYU has the Final Four.

    Coach Rose has put some decent teams together but is far, far away from being Final Four material.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    March 21, 2014 1:31 p.m.

    @Back Talk

    "Please stop talking about useless topics like final fours and national championships until you have a proven record of getting close. That will put an end to this forever."

    That is the most sensible comment I've ever heard from a Byu fan. Are you a byu fan?

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    March 21, 2014 1:24 p.m.

    Please stop talking about useless topics like final fours and national championships until you have a proven record of getting close. That will put an end to this forever.

    Realistic BYU fans can hope that in the future they will actually win the WCC season and tournament championships. BYU football fans can hope that a BCS game might be a possibility.

    Otherwise, please "let it go" as I think the popular girls song goes.

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    March 21, 2014 1:17 p.m.

    Final 4 by adding ONE player? Are you serious? Maybe if it's Lebron James.
    BYU is much farther away from the Final 4 than ONE player.

  • Big 12 Call Yet? Ogden, UT
    March 21, 2014 1:16 p.m.

    the rock

    "The only reason that BYU is a mid major program and not an elite program is the fact that too many top LDS athletes go elsewhere" The only problem with your statement is logic doesn't fit in there.

    I've heard byu fans argue just the opposite - that the reason they dont get great talent is the recruiting pool is so small and they mostly can only land Mormon kids. But now you're saying if byu got all the Mormon kids they would be elite?

    Because on average Mormon kids are the type of talent of Duke, Kentucky, Florida, and other elite programs? Don't blame me - you're the one who said byu would be elite with all the Mormon kids.

  • JP Chandler, AZ
    March 21, 2014 1:13 p.m.

    In other new, the Jabari Parker-led Blue Devils just got bounced in the first round. Maybe one Jabari-esque player isn't all it would take after all.

  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    March 21, 2014 1:07 p.m.

    Ya, its fun to play the "if only" game
    If only Davies had played - he didn't
    If only Jabari had picked byu - he didn't
    If only Jake Heaps turned out to be good - he wasn't

    At the end of the day byu has the most ncaa appearances without a single final four. I think that's more telling of how "close" they are now than pipe dreams of the next Jabari taking byu to the final four.

    And if you're going to play that game, you could also say byu was just one player away(if Haws had gone elsewhere) to be a very middle WCC team with no bright future at all. Teams are what they are. And for the last 30 years byu has proven what they are in the big dance.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    March 21, 2014 12:53 p.m.

    The most important and most difficult part of any college coaches job is recruiting. If a slightly above average coach can land a couple of super stars then he can end up looking really good. The only reason that BYU is a mid major program and not an elite program is the fact that too many top LDS athletes go elsewhere. Once the Jabari Parkers of the world start going to BYU and they consistently go deep into the NCAA tournament, BYU will become a destination, not a second choice.