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Comments about ‘British judge rejects case, calls it an 'attack' on LDS’

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Published: Thursday, March 20 2014 7:20 a.m. MDT

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BigCougar
Bountiful, UT

*yawn*....let it go Mr Phillips. Life's too short to waste it being full of hate. Move on, find a hobby that's productive. Try working with animals (very therapeutic) or growing a garden (healthful and therapeutic). Doing something productive will give you good vibes and positive energy.

nebocreek
Nephi, UT

We are here on earth to do our best to do what our Heavenly Father asks us to do. Tithing is a sacrifice for some of us. But aren't we really just trying to understand in a very infinitesimal degree the great and infinite sacrifice the Savior made for all of us. We are in school of sorts, being taught by our experiences and choices. If you want to be able to practice medicine as a physician it is required that you receive and are proficient by schooling and training-- if as Christ has ask us to "be ye therefore perfect , even as your Father in Heaven is perfect" then we no doubt, progress to do that by choosing to obey His commandments-- we can't become like Him unless we walk as He walked, sacrifice as he sacrificed ( in our own small way) learn, grow, be obedient to the Master teacher so that we too, can one day be like Him. Enduring to the end as Paul was successful in doing, is not easy-- we just have to keep doing our very best and Christ will make up the difference in His own way and time.

John Locke
Ivins, , UT

"Losers Pay" law is in force in England where the Plaintiff pays for the attorney costs of the defendant if he loses.

Since this was dismissed on the basis that the court felt the suit as an attack on religious principles, and that no court in the Britain would allow such a question of religious believe to be put before the court, the plaintiff will pay for the attorney's costs. That is the case in most of the world, but not in the United States.

In the US, and only in Texas where a recently passed bill which was signed by Governor Rick Perry in which a party brings a suit and loses, will he have to pay the other parties attorney's fees if he loses.

The "trial court attorney's" is a very strong lobby in the US, but people are getting fed up with frivolous cases, and in states which do not have the Texas law, in the judges discretion, he/she can require that the Plaintiff pay for the attorney's costs. But, this is only in each individual case.

JonathanPDX
Portland, Oregon

Far too often the justice system is used by some for unjust purposes.

It's nice to see someone in a position of authority actually has and
exercises some common sense.

DocHolliday
reno, NV

Madlyn6114

I have not felt guilty or remorseful for one single second for not paying tithing. Since I stopped I have been blessed immensely. That is why I believe that no blessings are tied to tithing. It is independent of any blessings that come your way in life.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

The only surprising thing is that it took so long to come to this outcome.

The accusations had no clear connection to tithing. The issues would have required inquiry into religious belies and an attempt to determine their validity. The whole idea was bizarre and unwise. This case will probably lead to a decision in England to end alloance of private prosecutions.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

Elizabeth Roscoe should be disciplined for this blatant disregard for good judicial proceedings in issuing the initial findings. I also hope that contempt of court is found on Phillips and he is made to pay all the costs of this massive, over the top, freedom threatening legal action.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

Phillips unlimited hate in not even referring to a church as a Church is a sign of people who avoid anything that even approaches good dialogue. Phillips is very representative of those people who seem to want to drive wedges between people, and engage in toxic dialogue. The world is a better place the less attention he gets. His rhetoric is toxic and divisive and the worst possible thing for the creation of good will.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

Philips makes no claims that the teaching of tithing itself is fraudulent, so anyone who thinks this somehow links to Philips claims is ignorant of them. The shocking thing is that he made any progress with these claims, which were just as bizarre and down right off the wall as the tithing claim. His claim with relation to the martyrdom of Joseph Smith is probably the most bizarre one, mainly because it is built around deliberately misrepresenting statements of Church leaders, ad trying to create a new case of criminal fraud that would stifle almost all speech.

Philips victory would have a much greater negative impact on free speech than it would on freedom of religion. He seeks a world where you have to speak in a way that agrees to someone elses narrow definition of truth or face criminal penalties. That is very scary for all freedoms.

Dex
Naples, FL

People seem to have trouble with a little understanding as to what commandments are for. I know you anti-mormon types don't like us to use scripture that you don't believe in, but it seems to help to make the point. In Doctrine and Covenants 82 it states, 8 And again, I say unto you, I give unto you a new commandment, that you may understand my will concerning you;

9 Or, in other words, I give unto you directions how you may act before me, that it may turn to you for your salvation.

Basically those things that He tells us to do are there to help us to understand Him a little better. I do realize that sacrificing a little of my income to help others barely even scratches the surface on the amount of sacrifice that my Lord and Savior, but it helps me to understand Him just a little bit more.

Also, I'm not quite sure that I understand why it bothers you so much about what I do with my money.

anyway, that is just me.

Hope everybody has a great day.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

DocHolliday,

I do not see it as the source of a specific temporal blessing much more or less than the other commandments.

I always think we fail to read the question to which the oft quoted verses (starting with 8) are an answer.

The question is found in verse 7: "Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?"

Tithing is a principle given to help Israel return to the Lord (and we to Him). Perhaps it also helps to keep our hearts from straying "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

bj-hp
Maryville, MO

The Lord has promised that as we pay tithing that we will be blessed beyond measure. We are also told that we were also not have certain things until after the test of our faith. I too have seen many who don't pay tithing gets lots of tithing and those that do get lots of trials. It reminds me of Job who went through all types of test just so Satan could test his diligence. After the test of his faith he received everything two fold. The same is said for those who say I don't pay tithing and I get lots of blessing. As Elder Oaks has taught 100 income and no blessings is always less than 10% of income plus blessing. Sometimes we don't what those blessings are until we actually sit down and see them. In my life since I started paying an honest tithe I've not been want for anything. This who legal thing was nothing more than trying to prove something that can't be proven.

JM
Lehi, UT

LDS don't believe tithing saves them & many Christian leaders believe in "tithing" donations etc. and bemoan the fact that some "Christians" reject almost all of the commandments (see quote below). On topic: TomP's case was not just silly and based on bogus claims, it was also bullying, hateful, and greedy. (Read Tom quotes on FAIRlds).
It's sad that so called "Christians" would support this guy and his tall tales.
Anti-mormons have been trying to prove the Church is false for nearly 200 years, all have failed, and always will, even if they find an anti-mormon Judge to go along with it. : )

A good video for those rejecting tithing is "Why Giving Matters" by Arthur C. Brooks, he's Catholic.
From Ronald J. Sider on beliefnet& Scandal of the Evangelical Conscience “Only six percent of born-again Christians give the traditional tithe..And when it comes to racism, Lord have mercy…evangelicals were more racist than everybody else....poll after poll.."that evangelical Christians are as likely to embrace lifestyles every bit as hedonistic, materialistic, self-centered, and sexually immoral as the world in general."

Silverprospector
SAN ANTONIO, TX

bj-hp

So just to clarify, you think that the vast majority of the world who aren't mormon and don't pay tithing don't get blessings? That is a bold claim, and I don't think for one second that it is true. Because the promise the lord gives is so vague (blessed beyond measure), that you could consider and count any good luck as a 'blessing' when you pay tithing. Conversely, you could easily use any bad luck example of a non tithe payer as a trial for not having paid tithing. So many people don't pay tithing and have full, rich (blessed) lives, and I have seen so many people pay tithing and keep having bad things happen to them over and over. So the lord's vague promise can't be counted as a realistic one. Especially because the lord gave the tithing commandment to a group of people in the bible over 2,500 years ago (if at all).

Stormwalker
Cleveland , OH

@A1994 "The tithes that are collected by the church are accounted for and used much more efficiently than the collections of other Christian denominations."

Every non-LDS church I have been part of publishes a full line item budget for the coming year and a full line-item financial report of all income and all spending during the previous year. It is printed and available to all members.

If memory serves, an LDS Church leader at General Conference declares that accountants have looked at the records and all are in order. No details and nothing is published - you just have to believe everything is fine and wonderful.

I prefer a whole lot more transparency in my financial reports.

As far as "efficient use" - by what standard? I am currently a member of a UU church that has a skilled and knowledgeable professional staff, a wonderful building that is in almost constant use by community groups for positive causes, and members who are engaged in good works in the community in a wide range of causes. I am not sure how much more efficient you can get.

BCA
Murrieta, CA

"The whole idea was bizarre and unwise."

Unwise depends on your perspective. If Phillip's goal was to win the lawsuit, it probably was, although even at that the church had to pay its own legal fees. If his goal was to get some unfavorable press for the church and wake some more people up that probably happened.

Objectified
Tooele, UT

@ Silverprospector:

No one ever claimed that non-believers who don't pay tithing don't receive blessings. There are all types of blessings that people can receive that are unrelated to the paying of tithes. But those who don't pay tithes don't receive the specific blessings related to that particular commandment. And those who pay tithes with the wrong attitude miss out on blessings as well. It's a fact.
Put the Lord to the test and try it. And if you do it correctly, you'll discover blessings you never previously knew existed.

@ DocHolliday:

It seems pretty obvious from your statements that even if you previously did actually pay tithing, you did it with the wrong attitude and for the wrong reasons. Otherwise, the blessings you would've received would vastly outweigh those you still receive when not paying tithes per God's commandment.
As explained above, people can and do receive blessings unrelated to the paying of tithes. But it's impossible to receive the specific blessings related to the paying of tithes without actually doing so, and with a spirit of love toward your fellowman. Literally all tithe money is used to benefit mankind.

nebocreek
Nephi, UT

We receive some blessings now, but many of them are unseen and not related to this mortal existence as we see it. The greatest blessings will come after our mortal existence. We pray for our families to be protected and blessed but are we always aware of being protected? I believe that we are protected and blessed in ways that we don't even realize or understand right now. Mortality is brief -- "life eternal" with God is forever.

WRK
Riverton, UT

@Stormwalker:
Have you ever hear of embezzlement, i.e. one set of books to show where the money goes and one set of where the money REALLY goes. I am not saying that you religions do that. I am saying that, when you have faith, it is a more powerful force than paper...

JM
Lehi, UT

See "Why Giving Matters" to learn some of many wonderful things about LDS tithing. Brooks was president of the American Enterprise Institute and is Catholic.
As for Phillips and Co., Mormons who think don't try to destroy faith, reason, or innocent people. Thinking Mormons know the Book of Abraham and Book of Mormon are miraculous and historical. And the logical, spiritual, religious, etc. evidence supports that.
And, after nearly 200 years of trying to prove these books are false, none- not the educated critic or the ranting haters, or anyone in between- no one has been able to find a fatal flaw in either book, and each critical claim has fallen or will fall.

The valid evidence indicates that LDS scriptures are the word of God, AND are Historical. And Joseph Smith could not have known the truths in them without God's help.
This includes the books accurately giving names, symbols, places, customs, cultures, geography, predictions etc. etc. unknown to JS or his associates.

So, Critics, be thankful that God guides and gives, smile and do something worthwhile : ). The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS does great good, and brings happiness to those humble enough to heed.

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