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Comments about ‘British judge rejects case, calls it an 'attack' on LDS’

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Published: Thursday, March 20 2014 7:20 a.m. MDT

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Brio
Alpine, UT

@ SoCalChris:

There is more going on in that individuals life than has been made public. If he had truly felt happy and blessed over the past few years, his heart and priorities wouldn't have changed so much. There are other things askew in this individual's life that he is choosing not to divulge. His current actions are the obvious indicator.

Even his wife of decades and his children think he is in an apparent irretrievable downward spiral, so have chosen to leave him, while they themselves have remained true to their spiritual beliefs.

@ MoreMan:

If you honestly think Jesus spoke and expounded all and everything important involving His Gospel and the establishment of His Kingdom here on earth all while hanging on the cross suffering excruciating pain, then you are sorely mistaken. He verbally spoke very little during that relatively short time, knowing his earthly work was nearly completed for a season.

Such a statement would indicate you should dust off those scriptures and do more reading and sincere studying. Please don't be a More-Earthly-Man. Much is at stake and I wish you well.

AL The Younger
Gilbert, AZ

I cant imagine the pain this "ex" bishop must be going through that had him come to the conclusion he needed to sue the church. So much hate has to be involved when doing something like this. Maybe one day he will have a moment of clarity and come back to the church. I cant ever imagine leaving the church.

Pushalong
colorado springs, CO

Glad this has been settled. Mr. Phillips is an interesting person though. I read up on some of his experience in Church leadership and was fascinated by those experiences and what drove him to this. Very interesting...

utahwitness
Salt Lake, UT

Jesus rejected money when he said "Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." He wasn't asking for money or requesting that people would give him anything, but this organization keeps demanding, besides tithes, more and more money. They say that it is not "obligatory" to pay it but when they teach that those who don't pay them their dues are "stealing" or will be "burned" or will not inherit a place in the kingdom of heaven for not doing it, then it becomes a controlling effort instigated with fear.

RAB
Bountiful, UT

@Jesus Loves U

The New Testament says a lot more than just that we can only be saved through Jesus. It also says (Matthew 7:21) that "not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

I sincerely fear for anyone who imagines they are saved while yet making little effort to do God's will.

The LDS do NOT believe that we are saved by our works. Anyone who says that, is lying to you. Rather, The LDS believe that AFTER we have come unto Christ, we MUST do everything in our power to do God's will (as Matthew said). If it is God's will that we give him back a tenth of our God-given earnings, as Christians, we comply with that His will.

The LDS DO NOT believe that complying with God's will is what makes them eligible to enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Baptism does that. They simply believe that complying with God's will is an inevitable and unavoidable behavior of all those who have truly come unto Him.

gildawg
Bountiful, UT

Many of you also fail to know what standing Tom Phillips is in the LDS church. He has recieved the 2nd Anointing in the temple and had his calling and election made sure. His salvation was guaranteed at the hands of a "profit" of god. The LDS church has not can they excommunicate him

WRK
Riverton, UT

@Jesus Loves U:

I wanted to answer with a commandment from Jesus himself from the New Testament:

Matthew 19:16-31, to summarize, a man came to Jesus and asked what he could do to inherit eternal life (not salvation, there is a difference; salvation is for all, eternal life is to live with God). Jesus then quoted the commandments. He did not say to give them up, but quoted them. The man then said he had done all that and was told to give up all he had, not just 10%, but all to the poor.

Lest we think that He was only taking about the rich, in verse 29 and 30 He says that he who gives will "receive an hundredfold" in this life and the life to come.

It sounds like we are to give all we can to the Lord, that 10% is just the start…

RAB
Bountiful, UT

Sorry “Jesus Love U”, but the Christians of old did not have to pay tithing because they did MUCH more. They gave EVERYTHING they owned. As related in Act 2: 32, “And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.”

The LDS adopted that exact same doctrine of having all things common. But they could not (or would not) do it. The Law of Tithing came to be as a result of that failure. The Lord is settling for a tenth of their earnings because the latter day saints were too selfish to be able to do what the former saints did. But at least they are willing to make SOME sacrifices.

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

ZenMormon

Tithing was not invented by god. It is a fabrication in the minds of men. They used to sacrifice their best animal in the hopes that god would bless them for it. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't Either way, all it did was make it so they had 1 less animal. Tithing is the same. God doesn't need money, man does. You would think that it god was running the mormon church he would make it so it doesn't need any money from the members. There are people that pay tithing that don't get blessings, and some that do. That is why blessings are not tied to tithing. Many great and influential people who aren't members and don't pay tithing have prospered on this planet. And many tithe payers have had struggles and bad things happen. It has nothing to do with tithing.

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

The Caravan Moves On

Are you talking about mormonthink.com, the website that brings up real issues and real problems and real contradictions that exist in the real church using real facts and real sources? Yeah, we can't have that now can we.

FelisConcolor
North Salt Lake, UT

This lawsuit was doomed to fail from the beginning, no self-respecting judge could have ruled otherwise. Anyone who was not completely blinded by Mormon-hate could have seen this coming a mile away.

Speaking of which, I notice there are a fair amount of hysterical comments in the article over at the Tribune's website.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

I think that there is a misunderstanding between the LDS people and the non-LDS people here.

The 10% tithing does NOT buy salvation. As the scriptures all declare, salvation will be given to all men. By salvation, I mean that you will not have to suffer forever for your sins. That means that even Hitler is will be saved.

Paying what you determine to be a full tithe is a requirement for entering the Temple. You do not have to enter the temple to receive salvation. Temple ordinances are needed for exaltation.

If you are not LDS want to understand the difference between salvation and exaltation, please fill out the form on the Church website for some nice missionaries to come and talk with you.

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

As far as the court case goes, good thing it was dismissed. If not, that would open the flood gates for any church to be sued for donated funds when a member becomes dissatisfied. The case has no merit, and the judges acted accordingly. I don't believe in the church either, and donated alot of time and money to the church for over 30 years - but I did it because I believed it. Now that I don't, I don't give them money. I would never ask for a refund, nobody made me do it.

bj-hp
Maryville, MO

Actually the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints doesn't require anyone to give their 10%. NO Bishop walks up to a member and says where is your 10% or check their books to ensure they are giving. In fact, it is all voluntary to do so. Now some say well I can't go to the Temple if I don't pay my 10%. That is true but there also 10 other questions that one must answer as well to obtain a Temple Recommend. The tithing is just one part. Joseph Smith stated that a religion that doesn't require sacrifice is no religion at all. As some of posters have stated it is a matter of faith and sacrifice that tithing is paid. It is misleading and incorrect for anyone to state the LDS Church requires 10% tithing. It is correct to state that our Heavenly Father requires it.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

I feel like some of the Christians are approaching this from a 1 level heaven perspective and the LDS response is coming from a multi-level heaven perspective. So as a clarifying point... I know for sure that LDS doctrine does not require tithing in order to make it to SOME level of heaven, but I think the primary focus is on the celestial kingdom. I know that LDS belief is that some who aren't living members of the church can make it to the celestial kingdom so that would also require tithing to not be a pre-condition for that. However, the part I'm unsure about is that I'm pretty sure that the celestial kingdom is also divided into several levels and the highest of those... where does that one stand with regards to tithing/having to be a living member obtaining the proper temple rites?

In other words, is there any level or sublevel (though sub is an awkward prefix since it'd be the highest if any) of heaven where failure to pay tithing is an automatic disqualifier?

LDSareChristians
Anchorage, AK

Jake D,

I am guessing it's a slip (deliberate?) of whats to come (if not already). The Church is generally very private about whom they excommunicate. If an excommunication is made know, it's usually done by the one excommunicated.
I'd be really surprised if at this juncture, the Church doesn't excommunicate. After all, this person has caused the Church to run up some legal expenses.
The remaining question is would Thomas Phillips reveal the action? Or withhold, for some nefarious reason? After all, the website he supports, is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Personally, I consider him a former member, the paper work simply hasn't caught up.

theidma
New York City, NY

@ Jesus Loves U: The Old Testament is not 'null and void.' Many misunderstand the meaning of Jesus 'fulfilling the law.' Jesus often quoted from the Old Testament, so your argument about tithing being invalid since it is in the Old Testament, is flawed. For example 'when tempted by Satan during His 40 days of fasting in the wilderness (see Matt. 4:1–11), Jesus responded to the temptations by referring to Old Testament scriptures: “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God” (see Deut. 8:3); “It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God” (see Deut. 6:16); and “For it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve” (see Deut. 6:13; Deut. 10:20; Josh. 24:14).'

donn
layton, UT

RE: BleedCougarBlueNon-LDS faiths generally say "just believe in Christ, no obedience of any kind is required"?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is ‘not from yourselves, ‘it is the ‘gift of Go’d— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.(Eph 2:8-10)

Not without precedent,In 1904 oseph F. Smith was questioned during the senate hearings for Mormon senator Reed Smoot. During the three days he was interrogated, President Smith admitted to several surprising facts including: the violation of federal laws in the continuation of the practice of polygamy by Church leaders, years after the Manifesto supposedly discontinued it; President Smith’s own disregard of both the Manifesto and the law, demonstrated in his fathering of eleven children by five wives since 1890; and that he, though a prophet, had not received any revelations up to that point in his life.

Dave M
Louisville, KY

Donn,

Again, when you quote an anti LDS website (really any website) or another author, you should cite your source.

That is from Mormon Coffee and posted was by Sharon Lindbloom who "surrendered her life to the Lord Jesus Christ in 1979. Deeply passionate about Truth, Sharon loves serving as a full-time volunteer research associate with Mormonism Research Ministry."

esodije
ALBUQUERQUE, NM

A "personal prosecution" -- that must be like Steve Martin's "citizen divorce" in The Man with Two Brains.

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