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Comments about ‘British judge rejects case, calls it an 'attack' on LDS’

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Published: Thursday, March 20 2014 7:20 a.m. MDT

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MormonBatman
Pinson, AL

@Jesus Loves U: Part of loving the Lord with all our heart, might, mind and strength means devoting everything we have to Him. If He is asking us to contribute to His church, we have an obligation to do so. I have noticed that when I do not pay tithing, I feel guilty. Tithing has been instituted in many different forms, but it is always the same: 100 percent of what you have is the Lord's. "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." Tithing is the Lord's. When we do not give it unto Him, we have robbed Him and ourselves. The Lord is waiting to bless us, but so many blessings hinge upon obedience to the commandments. You cannot say you love the Lord with all your heart if you have not committed 100 percent of yourself to Him.

1.96 Standard Deviations
OREM, UT

Jesus Loves U:

Instead of going back and forth on Bible interpretations and what it meant when Jesus fulfilled the law, it is easier understand God's will for us through modern day prophets and scripture.

Modern day scripture and revelation through the prophet Joseph Smith, dated July 8, 1838, indicates we are to pay tithing today. It is recorded in Doctrine & Covenants (D&C) section 119. Here are the scriptures

"3 And this shall be the beginning of the tithing of my people.

4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord."

Other modern day prophets have clarified the phrase "one-tenth of all their interest annually" refers to our 10% of our income, which is also synonymous with 10% of our "increase."

The section heading in D&C 119 has more background and context for what prompted the revelation on tithing in modern days.

MoreMan
San Diego, CA

When Jesus died on the cross did he say "Unless you give me 10%, and volunteer your free time, you are not getting to the highest levels of heaven" I doubt it. Only the Mormon church requires that.

The Caravan Moves On
Enid, OK

@ Jesus Loves U - kaysville, UT - "The Requirement of 10% tithing to give to your Church from its members to receive "salvation" with God the Father is wrong. I can see Philip's point. It's a Free Gift. Called Grace from Jesus..Praise Him forever.."

You're right: Jesus does not require our "tithing".

However....He DOES require our obedience. Surely you cannot object to that. Paying tithing is merely one of the ways we show our obedience to God. God tells His children what to do and not the other way around. Jesus also said "If you love me, KEEP my commandments".

There isn't any wiggle room there. If you truly love the Savior you will do your best to do as He asks.

You, or I, could try to argue against Him, but what for?

Just trying
Webster, UT

Wow to go from a Bishop and Stake President to this, he must have really been offended. I wonder what makes someone turn so much? I don't think he is required to pay the Church's court costs. The church can sue him but I guess he could sue too in a civil court. I think the church does have to do more to deal with the key points that are always brought up by antiMormons. They are starting. I think once they are all just out there they will lose their power.

The Caravan Moves On
Enid, OK

@ Delta35 - Saratoga Springs, UT - "I don't want to advertise for him at all, but everyone should be aware too that Tom Phillips is the managing editor for the website mormonthink.com. The website often masquerades as a faith-promoting site encouraging dialogue about Mormon beliefs and history. Mr. Phillips actions in this case have shown him to be little more than an embittered and vehement opponent of the Church."

Ya know....I got an e-mail about 2 months ago warning of these kinds of websites; sites in which it looks like they are friendly towards the Church although they are filled with spiritual poison, merely designed to sow the seeds of doubt.

Gee, imagine that.....Satan and those who fight truth using lies to try to forward their 'work'.

Thank you for bringing this to my (and our) attention. Will have to talk to my kids about this site in particular.

God bless!

hatchna
Eagle Mountain, UT

@Jesus Loves U

If you look closely at the Ten Commandments, every one of them either falls under the category of loving the Lord, or loving your neighbor. All commandments from God fall under those two categories. Jesus doesn't say that those are the only commandments, either. Study Matthew chapter 22 for further detail. Jesus state this:

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

He doesn't say that these are the only two commandments, but that those are the 2 great commandments. All other of God's commandments, and His laws are encompassed by those two laws. If we love the Lord, we pay our tithing. If we love our neighbor, we don't steal from them.

You over simplify the teachings of Christ when you assume that Loving God implies no more than just saying that you love him. It is much, much more than that.

hatchna
Eagle Mountain, UT

Jesus Loves U,

You're only partially correct in regards to salvation being a free gift to all. We are promised that we will be all be saved in regards to physical death. We will all be resurrected, no if ands or buts. Everyone will be resurrected at some future point in time.

However, salvation from spiritual death, which is our not being in the presence of God, only comes through faithfully living the laws of the Gospel, and keeping all of God's commandments. Again those commandments are more then just saying we love God and our neighbors.

We are taught that the grace of Christ is sufficient for all to be saved, but that we must work to obtain that grace. It is a lifelong journey in which we are preparing to inherit the Kingdom of God, and all that He possesses. We work through our entire lives, repenting of our sins, and doing our best. If we do all we can, then we will be made perfect, through the Atonement of Christ, and we will be saved from spiritual death, and receive full salvation in God's Kingdom.

hatchna
Eagle Mountain, UT

The Wraith:

I cracks me up that people who don't believe in God always comment in religious themed threads, and start spouting off that God is mythical, and doesn't exist. What purpose does it serve you to do so? You're basically joining the conversation, doing exactly what you are mocking others of doing.

SoCalChris
Riverside, CA

This guy needs to stop kicking against the pricks.

From what I've read online he had a happy, blessed life for over 30 years -- until he decided he had been deceived into that happy, blessed life. Go figure.

BleedCougarBlue
Enid, OK

Of all the differences between Latter-day Saints and other sects of Christianity, I have found the single greatest difference (and this shouldn't surprise any faithful, active LDS member) is the different beliefs of what salvation requires.

Non-LDS faiths generally say "just believe in Christ, no obedience of any kind is required".

While Latter-day Saints say "belief in Christ is definitely required, but the Lord also demands we do our best to obey Him and His grace will make up what we lack".

Those different ideas could not be more stark in contrast than night and day.

And, in my decades-long study of the Book of Mormon, I have found that the one doctrine that is hammered over and over and over again is what Christ requires for our salvation: faith, repentance, baptism, the reception of the Holy Ghost and endurance to the end. That may not be popular with 'mainstream' Christianity but that does not matter; truth is truth, regardless if it's popular or not.

This is exactly why the Book of Mormon is necessary: to dispel false beliefs and clearly show what God requires of us to return and live with him.

Jake D.
SLC, UT

It's incorrect to call Tom Phillips a former member. He is still listed on the records of the church and hasn't be excommunicated.

Brio
Alpine, UT

@ Jesus Loves U:

If and when a person loves God with all his heart (as you mentioned), then that person would gladly give all he can (in this case, only 10% is required) toward the building and sustaining of His Kingdom here on earth.

There are financial costs involved with building and maintaining churches and temples used in teaching, expounding and expanding God's work here on earth. There are also a number of other peripherals directly involved with that ongoing and growing work. The concept and principle is not difficult to understand and accept if your heart is in the right place.

People unwilling to part with any of their worldly goods toward those ends are clearly demonstrating that temporal things are more important to them than spiritual things. It's rather easy to see what is most important to a person by their actions, which then indicates their priorities.

If a person is unwilling to voluntarily part with any of their money for a higher cause, then money is obviously more important and consequently that person's god, regardless of the words that comes from his/her mouth. Actions do speak louder than words.

beekah
Salt Lake City, UT

Tithing is a choice. It is optional, not mandatory. No one forced him to do anything. He chose to pay, why should the church have to be punished because he made a choice?

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

I wonder if a Pope has ever been summonsed to court,
I mean -- Catholics have been paying Penance as part of Salvation for thousands of years.

Richie
Saint George, UT

I wish some of our judges were half as smart as that British Judge.

cassandove
Tampa, FL

@JesusLovesU -

James 2 teaches that "faith without works is dead", and tithing is a work that is wrought by faith. I am happy to pay my tithing because I know that, through this act of faith, I have been blessed by Heavenly Father for having my needs met, because I certainly couldn't have done it on my own. Also, we can choose to not pay tithing - just not without consequence (but every choice we make has consequences). Ergo, Phillips has no leg to stand on, and trying to prove or disprove religion in a secular court is impossible anyway.

1.96 Standard Deviations
OREM, UT

Jesus Loves U:

I wanted to make one more observation. You had mentioned the New Testament. Did you know the saints/church members in New Testament times had a much higher standard? Here are Acts 2:44 and Acts 4:32 respectively:

"44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;"

"32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common."

As others have mentioned, it boils down to giving the Lord our all. In this light, 10% tithing a very low standard -- but tithing is still required of us nonetheless.

Loving Life of Mine
Clinton, UT

@JesusLovesU: My interpretation of "cheerful giving" isn't "give if you feel like it". It is no matter the sacrifice (because for some, it is a big sacrifice to pay tithes) you give happily, "cheerfully", and joyfully to bless your life and the lives of others. Love others as yourself. Service and sacrifice (giving tithes) done begrudgingly is robbed of some of the essence of the concept. Just ask my 6 year old when I ask her to go down and get something from the food storage for dinner and she pounds all the way down stairs because she had to momentarily stop playing to help me out vs. when she runs to get me a diaper for her baby brother because I need it immediately and she saved me and the day from a poop fiasco.... :) Anyway, just my take on Paul's counsel. Have a great day!

Cougar11
Highland, UT

Wow, a real live judge with common sense. Any chance we can get him to immigrate to America? Legally of course.

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