Quantcast

Comments about ‘Utah group launches campaign to promote same-sex marriage with personal stories’

Return to article »

Published: Tuesday, March 18 2014 5:30 p.m. MDT

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

@Jim Cobabe

" But I do not accept the argument that these sad people will suddenly find the solution to all their unhappiness in same-sex "marriage".

My dear Jim, we are not a sad people. On the contrary we are a gay people.

My partner of 33 years and I are not married but we are very happy together. Homosexuality does not make us sad. Bigotry makes us sad. I want to make sure that when I die my partner and hopefully by then my husband will be able to enjoy my retirement, our properties will be for him without fears of my brothers and sisters, nephews to argue against his right to inheritance and vice versa.

I have an excellent health insurance beccause of my job. Yet, my partner is not allowed to enjoy that privilege, who all heterosexuals in my job have.

Jim, LGBT are fun, people like you have forced us to enjoy every moment we can. As I said we are not sad we are gay.

Meckofahess
Salt Lake City, UT

Jsmith5151

You said: "we will never stop fighting for our rights until we have them. Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry some of your gender. Otherwise, stop trying to impose your beliefs on others who don't share them".

Given your statement I think you can certainly understand that we straight folks will never stop fighting for our rights and we respectfully ask the gay community to stop trying to impose their beliefs and ideas on us - who do not share them - please.

No H8 - Celebrate
Salt Lake, UT

@ Meckofahess "..we respectfully ask the gay community to stop trying to impose their beliefs and ideas on us.."

In other words, it is "perfectly rational" to hold gays and lesbians morally and legally responsible for any failure of heterosexuals to act in a manner others may wish them to behave?

The right to marry someone for which there is no desire of intimacy, is simply NO right at all. The public has a more profound and long-term interest in upholding an individual’s constitutional rights and not in the vile animus of discrimination.

Historically, the State has many purposes in licensing and fostering marriage. These include: facilitating governance and public order by organizing individuals into cohesive family units; developing a realm of liberty, intimacy, and free decision-making by spouses which “the state does not enter; creating stable households; assigning individuals to care for one another which limits states requirement to care for the vulnerable; and shaping the people who compose the citizenry. In every state, the capacity to marry has never turned on ability or willingness to procreate. Neither age nor sterility has ever been a bar to marriage; nor has inability to bear children been divorce grounds.

No H8 - Celebrate
Salt Lake, UT

@Meckofahess.

Abraham Lincoln addressed supporters of oppression and those adamant in maintaining the status quo, when he said:

“It cannot have failed to strike you that these men ask for just the same thing, fairness, and fairness only. This, so far as in my power, they and all others shall have.”

Gays and Lesbians, and their children too, whose voices are in harmony with constitutional guarantees, also ask for fairness, and fairness only. This, so far as it is the power of the nations courts through constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection, they ALSO shall have.

equal protection
Cedar, UT

@Meckofahess
Salt Lake City, UT

A valid constitutional argument will be most helpful to your cause. Otherwise, how many thousands of times can one beat a dead horse hoping by some off chance, another nickel falls out? Before it looks rather foolish to everyone else?

intervention
slc, UT

@jsf

I don't know what the first post said but Matthew sheppards death was the result of a hate crime, as evidenced by the official records, and any claims to the contrary are just an extension of that hatred.

Fred Vader
Oklahoma City, OK

I find it curious that with all of these "gay marriage" lawsuits and news articles, there has been no information reported on the fact that gay anthropologists and historians, who are also gay, have stated that a "gay identity" is a 19th century creation. In other words, there were no gay minority groups prior to the 19th century. This seems entirely contrary to the claim that people are inherently gay.

The historical argument is that there are no facts which support the claim of "inherently gay." These gay anthropologists and historians claim that the "inherently gay" theory was created by 19th century physicians, who did not know how to treat these claims by their patients. So they made it up.

They have noted that in those instances prior to the 19th century where folks were engaging in same sex behavior, they were also engaging in heterosexual behavior, because those cultures did not separate the two. In otherwords, those who engaged in same sex behavior did so from a bisexual standpoint, not same sex alone.

Why is the media keeping this information quiet?

equal protection
Cedar, UT

@Fred Vader " "gay identity" is a 19th century creation."

Identity and ones sexual orientation are two different things.

We have that today with homosexuals claiming to be only "same-sex attracted." and then, because of religious or or other expectations, may go on marry someone of the opposite sex. Many of these marriage are train wrecks in the making. Others, who may be bi-sexual and view their religious and family values and expectations more important than their sexual orientation.

I was one of them, 100% a gay man with a homosexual orientation but in denial and married a woman. My lie went like this "sure I'm attracted sexually only to men" but I'm certainly "not" one of those homosexuals. Thank goodness my wife had the courage to leave and years later I could accept my own sexual orientation. Living a lie may be a choice for some, it is now not my choice.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

@ Fred Vader: And your point would be what? That as society has grown and learned we have become more aware of differences and more willing to let people be true to themselves? Why is this a bad thing?

The 19th century also saw the official end of slavery in the US, the invention of the telephone and the phonograph, the start of the Mormon Church, and Standard Time became Standard Time.

And prior the the 19th Century, basketball did not exist. Neither did the Republican Party.

Fred Vader
Oklahoma City, OK

@Kalindra: The point being that there is no such thing as "I was born gay" or "God made me this way"...if that were true, then why is there no historical showing of a gay minority prior to the 19th century?

The "born this way" concept has been foisted upon society, simply because 19th and 20th century medicine didn't want to hurt people's feelings. And now the 21st century has bought into the fable. I suppose this falls under the category of "tell a lie often enough, and it becomes the truth".

That is the real danger of "gay marriage." The truth that folks don't have to follow society's trendiness is continually stamped down, leaving confused folks with the false belief that they have no other option than to be gay. Having SSA does not make you gay. No one is "born that way"

Don't give up folks. Do the research...don't buy into the fable!

RedWings
CLEARFIELD, UT

I am not one to go for the "liberal media" line, but in the case of same-sex attraction there is so much misinformation and outright lies in the mainstream media. Thak you, Fred Vader, for helping to point his out.

The fact is, thousands and thousands of former "gays" now lead happy and productive heretosexual lives, married and with children. That there are men and women who have overcome this is hidden by the media. They refuse to report it. It is even illegal in CA for therapists to provide this type of treatment!

If it were accepted that one can change from gay to straight, the whole argument for gay rights collapses like a house of cards. This is why the media censors the facts and reality.

If you want to be gay, be gay. But those who do not want to be, who want to obey the commandments of their God, let them get help and healing!!

No H8 - Celebrate
Salt Lake, UT

@RedWings
"But those who do not want to be, who want to obey the commandments of their God, let them get help and healing!.."

Changing ones religious belief has a much higher degree of efficacy rather than advocating what is for most, an immutable characteristic. In fact, especially for minors has been shown to be harmful, hence the anti-change legislation in several states and validated by the courts.

Values Voter
LONG BEACH, CA

@ RedWings

"It is even illegal in CA for therapists to provide this type of treatment!"
_____

I'm sure you (and your church, if you have one) don't want to be responsible for spreading inaccurate information, so let me clarify:

So-called "Reparative Therapy" is considered unethical and ineffective by all the major mental health organizations because the claim that one's sexual orientation can be changed from homosexual to heterosexual is unfounded and unsupported by scientific research. One may, if one chooses to, work to suppress a homosexual orientation and function with an opposite sex partner, and one can find therapists here in California (and elsewhere) who will help you do that -- provided you are an adult.

The California law you are referring to specifically concerns itself with so-called "Reparative Therapy" for --minors--. Once one is an adult, one is presumed to be in a better position to evaluate and make decisions in this regard.

nycut
New York, NY

@FredVader:

Sexual orientation exists on a continuum. For most, an exclusive or primary attraction to the opposite sex becomes clear; for a distinct minority, the same sex; others find more flexibility.

Orientation, and its intensity, varies. Erotic attraction and capacity for romantic love is the same.

Prior to the advent of modern psychology, little framework existed for discussing human sexuality. But just as the subconscious mind existed before it was so named, so did sexual orientation.

Economic survival, religious adherence, and social acceptance have long been reasons to alter or hide one's preferred behavior.

People knew which sex attracted them. Many lived lives we'd recognize as "gay," albeit better hidden.

Today, plenty of homosexual people choose NOT to stifle their natures, preferring to love who they love and fully be who they are.

Some still see something to gain by choosing a heterosexual lifestyle, repressing their natural attractions through force of will or endurance.

This fact remains: a great many people on this planet say they're gay and were born that way.

If you have some need to doubt that, or feel compelled to demand they make choices you think you'd make, the issue is yours.

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

Our comments should be thoughtful. All of my life I have loved being Mormon. I have reached a point when I know I have to let go and I don't know how! I don't know how! Thoughtful? I am not doing it any more and I think that I have stopped hoping! I am tired! We, as gay people, don't deserve what is happening and we are better than what people think or say we are! Don't tell me that I don't know that! Don't tell me that such degrading beliefs come from God!
What do you say to people who degrade you? What do I say to people that look at me in such a disgusting way?
It is wrong! Do whatever you need to do, but it wrong! It is wrong to treat us like we are nothing!

Values Voter
LONG BEACH, CA

nycut wrote:

"Sexual orientation exists on a continuum. For most, an exclusive or primary attraction to the opposite sex becomes clear; for a distinct minority, the same sex; others find more flexibility."

You do a beautiful job if introducing and elaborating on the idea of sexual orientation as it exists on a continuum. The fact that there are indeed individuals who "find more flexibility" (and this appears to be true particularly of women) has allowed some to point to this relatively small group of individuals and say that ALL gays could and should change. This is unfortunate and ignores the fact that those who fall more decidedly on the homosexual end of the sexual orientation continuum, have little prospect of change. Fortunately, in our modern world, there is less and less pressure to change (or pretend to change).

Oh, and one more thing. The Michigan Marriage Equality ban has just been ruled unconstitutional. Another domino has fallen.

Stormwalker
Cleveland , OH

@Fred Vader:

I think we have some misunderstanding of terms here.

Anthropology shows same-sex activity in every culture and among every group through history and into prehistoric times. In some cultures the same-sex attracted sub-groups were open in their activities and some were even seen as holy or special or shamans. In other cultures that sub-group was hidden, criminalized, even killed. In many cultures mating was such a strong imperative that all were expected to marry - often in arranged marriages with little or no choice - and some, including those who were same-sex attracted, had more fulfilling side relationships.

The idea of "homosexual" as a separate identity was developed in the last century, along with a wide array of new understanding about the human mind and experience. Saying the homosexual identity was "created" does not mean there were no gays before that time, it means the understanding of "gay" as a distinct subculture or group was recognized and began to be developed.

This is pretty well known in the media and is not hidden from society in general.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@tim_the_tool_man_taylor

"Do they really expect to be treated as equal after having chosen to enter into an inferior relationship. (Inferior in the sense that they cannot reproduce)"

=========

This is where you are wrong.
This is why you will fail.

With a Divorce rate of 50% - even amongst us Heterosexual, single married couples -
Defending Marriage means Cleansing our own inner vessels and staying Married first,
and stop worrying about what over people are saying or doing.

He who has no sin, cast the 1st stone.

Until "traditional" marriage is 100%,
no one has any right to complain.

brianben
Salt Lake City, UT

The Mormon Church may dictate the beliefs of its own members, but there are people of other faiths and non-believers who disagree with them on this issue.

It's fine if Latter-day Saints don't believe that same-sex couples should marry -- then, very well, don't allow for that in YOUR church -- but it's not your right to decide that for those who believe differently.

Many of those in the Protestant and Jewish faiths believe that civil marriage rights should be extended equally, to their gay and lesbian family members -- many of whom are already raising children, AND whose children deserve the protective rights that come with "marriage."

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments