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Comments about ‘Utah group launches campaign to promote same-sex marriage with personal stories’

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Published: Tuesday, March 18 2014 5:30 p.m. MDT

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Cookie999
Sandy, UT

I understand same-sex attraction can be a difficult set of feelings to process correctly. I understand people can have hormone imbalances. And I even know a counselor who works with people with coding that may have been faulty from the womb.
But I still believe that the inherent order of the universe is male and female for a reason. I still believe, based on observations and prayer, that many of those who want to marry someone of the same gender have found a look-alike or simply an eternal friend, and they would be able to find the person of the opposite gender who is the most like the first person if they are open to change. In my opinion, whatever 'union' or 'marriage' people of the same gender enter into in this life will not endure past the grave. So no matter what happens in any state or country, divine law will not be changed.

Candide
Salt Lake City, UT

To Diligent Dave
The meanings of words change over time. The meaning of marriage now encompasses two consenting adults of either gender. Society also changes over time. People from 100 years ago wouldn't recognize our society because we have gone through enormous change in that time, women can vote, blacks don't have to sit at the back of the bus, we can communicate instantly with people from around the world, we carry phones in our pockets, we landed on the moon, and we are slowly seeing equality for all in this country. Our society will continue to progress for the benefit of all and not just those currently in power.

Diligent Dave
Logan, UT

Laura Bllington,

Where do you get, "The Church used to dismiss gays as devil possessed. Now the Church acknowledges that no one chooses their gender orientation --i.e. that Heavenly Father created them gay--and that that is OK---as long as they lead celibate lives."

We might as well say that God created liars, thieves, murderers, adulterers and fornicators too, since "those who abuse themselves with mankind" are often listed with the others in scripture, as long as they don't lie, steal, murder, commit adultery or fornicate.

Quote the passages from which you derive your mistranslation, or misiteration of what they actually said, which can mean something much different from the way you put it.

For example, the long quoted phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the 1st Amendment. Nor, would I assert, is it even what the religious clause in the first amendment was written to mean. That was just a phrase of someone's interpretation of one aspect of the religious clause of the 1st amendment, and not the first amendment itself!

TheTrueVoice
West Richland, WA

Joemamma: "OK. So you tried bullying us, ramming it down our throat, calling us haters, bigots, and every name in the book.. Disrespected our beliefs traditions and religion, and now that you're losing the fight you want to try a different approach?"

Sir, this statement is simply whistling in the dark. Do you really believe Marriage Equality is "losing the fight"? In fact, it is quite the opposite.

Counting the Tennessee SSM ban that was tossed out just last week, there have been a total of 38 federal court cases involving marriage equality since the Windsor decision last summer. What is the scorecard for these cases where marriage equality prevails?

It is 38-0.

They are not losing. They are winning. They are winning huge. Detractors need to come to grips with the fact this debate is over. Once the appeals process runs its course, it will be the Law of the Land.

Willem
Los Angeles, CA

Are my Mormon friends paying attention? Soon the Supremes will declare equal marriage rigths the law of the land,dont be left behind!

sid 6.7
Holladay, UT

TA1 Brings up an excellent point. How can one defend Traditional Marriage with "Traditional Marriage is what God wants" when 50% of them end in divorce and Infidelity in one form or another runs rampant? Or is Divorce and Infidelity part of the tradition? Are there not those who are currently cheating who are against SSM?

I know we have all seen the picture of the man dressed in a pink tutu dancing down the street in a random pride parade. Not a great representation I assure you but we have also seen the prominent Minister, Bishop or Man of God who was exposed for cheating on their wives. Some of which were very out spoken on the ills of Homosexual behavior. I believe one such outspoken preacher in Denver was caught cheating on his wife with a person of the same sex? Not a great representation either. Lets agree not to judge an entire religion/sexual orientation on the stupidity of a small few of it's members.

How can traditional Marriage be defended when Marriage its self is not traditional?

shamrock
Salt Lake City, UT

I completely understand why many people have religious objections to same-sex marriages. But I'm baffled by their insistence that those religious tenets be enshrined in secular law. If you, your family and your chosen church oppose same-sex marriages, that's fine, but please don't force others to conform to your religious views. You probably wouldn't appreciate it, either, if other religions dictated that you had to comply with their religious requirements under penalty of law.

Laura Bilington
Maple Valley, WA

Stephen Kent Ehat:

Assuming that this is a serious question, there are consanguinity laws which restrict the marriages of close blood relatives, because children born to these relationships are at substantially higher risk of birth defects. If you think that these laws are unduly restrictive, (particularly if one partner is sterile), you certainly may sue the state to force it to change its law. I don’t think there are many people out there who would be your co-plaintiffs, however.

Re: the threesome, marriage laws in the US restrict you to one partner because of the belief that this is the ideal arrangement for a stable society. Under the current law, you and your spouse can adopt Phyllis; if you wish to marry her, you can move to a country where this is legal or you can sue the state to change its law. Again, it would help if you had a serious argument as to how polygamy would benefit the society.

nycut
New York, NY

@joemamma: "So you tried bullying us, ramming it down our throat, calling us haters, bigots...disrespected our beliefs traditions and religion, and now that you're losing the fight you want to try a different approach?"

The logical arguments in favor of marriage equality are well known and have been clearly articulated the many court cases progressing across the country.

The positive shift in public opinion, even among those with conflicting personal religious beliefs, shows they've been persuasive. Yet some of the most vociferous objectors still feel gay marriage constitutes some kind of personal attack.

The political dominance and worldview of Utah's cultural majority has been challenged by this issue and emotions have been high. Personal stories can help teach understanding of the realities of gay people's lives-- especially beneficial for those who know few, if any, actual gay people. This could make acceptance easier for everyone.

There is a benefit to seeing gay people-- and their families and friends-- less as hypothetical strangers and sinners and more as the actual people next door.

So perhaps the shift from logical arguments to personal stories is happening now because the battle is, in fact, nearly won.

Evidence Not Junk Science
Iron, UT

@SG "I believe that even when the courts decree that same sex marriage is good, such decision is contrary to God's plan and commandment. As a believer in the Bible and it's teachings, even the story of Adam and Eve, I believe that marriage should only be between a man and a woman, any other is contrary to God's commandment."

But what would Jesus say?

"LGBT men and young women will continue to be vulnerable to the sins of homophobia and heterosexism, to the violence of hate and fear until we in the church can say to homosexuals now what it has said to heterosexuals for 2,000 years. Your sexuality is good. The church not only accepts it. The church celebrates it and rejoices in it. God loves you as you are, and the church can do no less." - Episcopal Church

Evidence Not Junk Science
Iron, UT

@Stephen "A state's authority over marriage law is "of central importance." (U.S. Supreme Court, Windsor case (2013) 133 S.Ct. at 2692.)"

To regulate yes. To willfully discriminate through vile animus, no.

Windsor- State laws defining and regulating marriage, of course, MUST respect the constitutional rights of persons, see, e.g., Loving v. Virginia, 388 U. S. 1 (1967); but, SUBJECT to those guarantees, “regulation of domestic relations” is “an area that has long been regarded as a virtually exclusive province of the States.”

"Our nation's uneven but dogged journey toward truer and more meaningful freedoms for our citizens has brought us continually to a deeper understanding of the first three words in our Constitution: we the people. "We the People" have become a broader, more diverse family than once imagined. Justice has often been forged from fires of indignities and prejudices suffered. Our triumphs that celebrate the freedom of choice are hallowed. We have arrived upon another moment in history when We the People becomes more inclusive, and our freedom more perfect.”-Judge Arenda Allen

Evidence Not Junk Science
Iron, UT

@Meckofahess "Please try to understand that it is not reasonable to try to manipulate society to believe that all things are equal when in fact they are not equal for biological, anatomical, religious and other commons sense reasons."

Yet you support laying out the legal civil marriage red carpet for opposite sex couples convicted of horrific crimes, spousal, drug, alcohol and child abuse? Don't these marriages also define the real meaning of the institution of marriage?

And your worried about loving same-sex couples and what they will do to the definition of marriage? What about the traditional gender defined "institution of voting" and how voting was redefined in to a genderless institution when women were granted the right to vote. Can you see how the redefinition argument is at best, a logical fallacy?

The Authority
Richfield, UT

Yawn. It seems between one and three percent of the population get between 40 and 60 percent of the media attention.

equal protection
Cedar, UT

@ Outside View "I expect that gay marriage will continue to be more legally acceptible. At that time I hope that gays will stop seeking out people and business that dont agree with their lifestyle to try and punish them. People should hve the right to not be forced to "partcipate" in gay marriages."

To be fair, would you ALSO say the same about interracial marriages in public accommodations law?

pbunny
Salt Lake, UT

Hi Cookie 999, your comment reads: "In my opinion, whatever 'union' or 'marriage' people of the same gender enter into in this life will not endure past the grave. So no matter what happens in any state or country, divine law will not be changed." Have you not read the bible? Do you not know that Jesus said, "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven"? That is the divine law. No marriages will endure beyond the grave, our genders are just for this world.

Jim Cobabe
Provo, UT

I have no doubt that groups with an interest in promoting this cause can find people who identify as "GLBT", and who are willing to share stories about unhappiness and deprivation. These unfortunate individuals have my sympathy. But I do not accept the argument that these sad people will suddenly find the solution to all their unhappiness in same-sex "marriage".

Evidence Not Junk Science
Iron, UT

@The Authority Richfield, UT
"Yawn. It seems between one and three percent of the population get between 40 and 60 percent of the media attention."

Take the case of 3 starving wolves and a delicious lamb voting though the political process on what to eat for lunch. The screaming minority seem gets the majority of the attention, while the majority is simply trying to enjoy a quiet dinner.

"A nation's greatness can be measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

equal protection
Cedar, UT

@Jim Cobabe "...But I do not accept the argument that these sad people will suddenly find the solution to all their unhappiness in same-sex "marriage."

Is that why interracial couples wanted to marry the one they love?

Is that why opposite sex couples choose to marry the one they love?

It is well-established and crystal clear that the right to marry is a central aspect of the right to liberty, privacy, association, and identity. Fifteen times since 1888, the United States Supreme Court has stated that marriage is a fundamental right of all individuals. In these cases, the Court has reaffirmed that “freedom of personal choice in matters of marriage” is “one of the liberties protected by the Due Process Clause,” “essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men,” and “sheltered by the Fourteenth Amendment against the State’s unwarranted usurpation, disregard, or disrespect.”

I strongly suspect most same-sex couples, just like other couples don't look to "marriage" as the solution for "all their unhappiness. Some, may even want to be treated equally under the law.

Stormwalker
Cleveland , OH

@Jim Cobabe, 4:34 p.m. March 19, 2014

>>>>

For years I've been a supervisor in a nursing home with strong gay-affirming policies. My job included hiring. During interviews I talked about the opportunity by describing how my husband and I had moved to Cleveland and I was hired and promoted.

People regularly asked if it was "okay" to be out and open on the job; two people actually cried at the thought of working in a place where they could be open about their relationship and not have to live in fear of being found out.

"Sad" is what I feel about having to live in fear of mistreatment because of who I love. "Sad" is what I feel about having to hide my relationship so I can keep my job, or family, or home.

"Sad" is getting better and will continue to improve as we move through the legalization of "same-sex-marriage" and on into "marriage" for everyone, without qualifiers.

The ripples of acceptance and safety SSM will generate wont cure all problems, but will cure many kinds of "sad" and "fearful" and "hurt."

Stormwalker
Cleveland , OH

@Cookie999 "I understand same-sex attraction can be a difficult set of feelings to process correctly... I still believe that the inherent order of the universe..."

Correctly according to who?

I believe we live many lives, and experiences from past lives, including gender and attractions, play out in this life and, in turn, impact the next life. I believe my sexual orientation and my gender expression are part of my growth, from past to present to future.

Furthermore, I have seen these kinds of patterns playing out in others as they, too, work on issues from past lives for their growth and development.

I also believe that the relationships we have in this life are based on long-term "family group" spiritual relationships with agreements to help each other grow, and that the relationships existed in the past and last beyond the grave and through many cycles.

Finally, while I firmly hold those beliefs, it would be wrong to force you to believe the same thing - you have to work out your own issues through your many lives. And, please understand, it is wrong for you to try and compel me to follow your beliefs.

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