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Published: Wednesday, March 12 2014 10:08 a.m. MDT

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Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Or maybe we can just help each other, be better people and leave supernatural entities out of the blame or credit game.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Funny I don't see folks immigrating to theocratic states in the middle east where they invite God over loud speakers in prayer several times daily. Nor do I see these countries prospering.

Hank Pym
SLC, UT

Plus 1 to what Ernest said.

As the central tenet of Deism states, "God gave us reason not religion"

So, lets use common sense and logic not some Bronze Age hokum.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

‘Letter: Invite the divine’

==========

and I'm 100% fine with that,
so long as you are willing to allow others to worship --
"Who, Where, or What they may".

[God, God the Father, the Mother, the Son, Allah, an energy source, Trees and Shrubs, Gaia, Zesus, or intellect of their very own consciousness, etc.]

You see, I hear stuff like this all the time,
but then I see extreme religous repression and bigotry coming from these very same people when they discover or realize that someone is worshipping a God they do not recognize.

If Christians want to have they statues of Jesus on Oklahoma State grounds,
then
We must also allow a 7 foot statue of Baphomet being erected by Satan worshippers.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

"Maybe it's time to take responsibility"

Okay.

" and think about the possibility that we cannot solve all the problems of our country by ourselves."

Well... we had a good run at the responsibility thing... for about half a sentence before thinking about passing at least a chunk of it off to someone/something else to deal with...

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Ernest,
If you think you can help people better than God can... then go ahead.

I actually think you are both on the correct path. But you need both (not just one).

IF you invite God into your life and ask for help... you're probably going to get that help through your friends/neighbors. So yah... we have to be willing to help each other AND we need to be humble enough to ask and accept help (even from "supernatural entities").

We can help each other in some things (mostly temporal things). But there are other things (ie spiritual things) that we may need divine help. Some things we just can't do by ourselves, or even if others help. Things like repentance, redemption, resurrection, hope in the afterlife, etc....

So not everything can be solved with your "we can just help each other".... But at the same time... we do need to be willing to help each other, even if some people believe they can ask God for help.

So you are right. We CAN help each other.
And she is right. We can invite the divine into our lives.
IMO... we need both.

GZE
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

I never asked God to leave my life and he is still very much a part of it. We don't, however, believe in PDA. Some relationships should remain private.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

I did. She said 'Suck it up. I gave you the brains to think for yourself'.

Kent C. DeForrest
Provo, UT

The main problem I see with this "solution" is to determine exactly what God says and which of his numerous self-proclaimed spokepeople to believe. Right now, for instance, the political party that assumes its abbreviation means God's Only Party espouses economic philosophies that are an affront to the very God they claim to worship. Their war on the poor, for instance, is not even consistent with the book they claim to be inerrant truth.

So if you can suggest a way to solve this little dilemma, I'm all ears.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

My LDS primary teaching taught us that --

WE were supposed to everything we possibly can for ourselves first,
and THEN,
seek for Divine Guidance.

D&C 58:
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;

28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.

We think we have a long ways to go, before we start asking God to save us from ourselves...

nonceleb
Salt Lake City, UT

Like praying for rain. Go ahead and do it, but do not stop trying to deal with the drought with practical solutions.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

nonceleb and LDS Liberal,
Who said stop trying to help yourself?
If you can give the names I'd like to see those comments.
Or was that just a strawman?

===

Nobody said stop thinking or trying to figure it out for yourself. Just because you ask for help doesn't mean you haven't or won't try to help yourself (or let others help you).

We need to quit going to the extreme every time with our biased assumptions about others, and claiming people think things they never said (or thought). Nobody thinks if you invite the divine into our lives... you can't also try to work it out on your own as well... that's just a silly assumption.

===

Just because somebody believes in asking for divine help... doesn't automatically mean they haven't or won't try themselves as well.

We need to try to reduce the partisan bickering (if possible).
Every disagreement isn't a political offense. Nor does it need the usual knee-jerk political partisan response.

This isn't politics.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Hey 2bits: I can point to many billions of instances where it's verified that human help other humans. You can't point to anything verified, beyond personal belief, where god helped anyone.

Lifelong Ute
Salt Lake City, UT

Ernest - Do you include yourself in those recommendations? I don't see you building too many people up and saying positive things on these boards. But it probably only applies to others huh?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Elder Jeffery Holland gave a remarkable talk about the "Angles Among us."

Angles are not metaplasma energy with wings.

WE are to be God's Angels.
Just as others have mentioned.

BrighamYoung taught the true intent of religion ---

"… many of our brethren and sisters are on the Plains with hand-carts, and probably many are now seven hundred miles from this place, and they must be brought here, we must send assistance to them.

THAT is my religion; that is the dictation of the Holy Ghost that I possess, it is to save the people. . . . This is the salvation I am now seeking for, to save our brethren that would be apt to perish, or suffer extremely, if we do not send them assistance. [JD 4:113]

I will tell you all that your faith, religion, and profession of religion, will never save one soul of you in the celestial kingdom of our God, unless you carry out just such principles as I am now teaching you.
Go and bring in those people now on the plains! [JD 4:113]"

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. [John 15:13]

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Ernest T. Bass,
You got me there dude... I can't think of a single instance when God blessed or helped anybody. Good point.

Just kidding.

I could give you a long list of examples... but you would just dismiss them. So I won't.

===

But the existence of God wasn't what I was trying to get at. I was trying to point out is that IF we asked for help, and he helped us (which I believe he does)... it would probably be through prompting someone to do something... not sending an angel or something like that (although that probably happens sometimes too). That's why I always follow the promptings I get to help people (just in case).

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

I would say that would include thinking of others and caring enough to work together. Putting God in our lives doesn't mean the same thing to everyone!

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

Asking God to do for us what we are capable of doing, but refuse to do, is not the answer. Whether there is a God or not… I personally do believe in something greater than myself, the action part of it will always be up to us. God is not going to come down here and save ourselves from ourselves. That is our jobs.

If we can not treat each other with dignity and respect, we have no business asking God to make others do what we ourselves refuse to do.

Mocking people because of their faith I am sure is not going to help… in fact, I can pretty much say it will result in exactly the opposite of civility.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

Do we have some problems? sure, is the country falling apart? hardly. Crime rates and teen pregnancy remain historically low, abortion rates are lower then they have been in the past 40 years, etc etc etc... just because the letter writers faith no longer has a strangle hold on public policy does not mean the world is ending.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Invite the divine?

Does that mean we can finally rid ourselves of this backwards health care system and get a single payer one? Can we finally bring back worked protections? Unions so we can actually make a living? Raise the min wage so workers don't have to work2-3 other jobs or use food stamps? Can we admit that the wealth inequality is the direct result of our backwards tax system? Can we admit that the rich have waged class warfare and wages it successfully to steal from the middle class and poor? Can we admit that this tea party non compromise is nonsense?

I'll believe that we are ready to invite the divine when repubs are ready to admit that trickle down economics is of the devil, single payer is the way to go, and when they are ready to raise the min wage.

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