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Comments about ‘Gay marriage debate is changing how Americans settle differences’

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Published: Friday, March 7 2014 10:45 a.m. MST

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Values Voter
LONG BEACH, CA

@Meckofahess

You wrote:

"Perhaps it is time to include a question about our affiliation or sympathizing with groups who are opposed to the doctrines of the scriptures and the Church as a qualification for a temple recommend?"

Really? Consider how unseemly that question might be for an LDS parent who had a gay child. I hope LDS leadership is wise enough and sensitive enough to never place such parents in that position.

Meckofahess
Salt Lake City, UT

@The Skeptical Chymist

We don't fear the future as you say. What we do fear is that gay members of society will not be accepted as much as you think they will and this will lead to an on-going divide in society. Employers, business owners and other will tire of being sued because the want to exercise their freedom of conscience and their constitutional rights. Straight people will tire of the gay community disrespecting their rights and promoting immoral practices and behaviors in the community. I fear that there will be a backlash toward our humble and meek gay brothers and sisters because the activist element in the gay community is so radical that they alienated straights of good will. We will discover that these changes are not good for society at all and negative consequences will follow.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

I would put my money on the continued existence of Jews, Christians, Mennonites, Mormons, etc over those who want to exterminate their beliefs, such as is advocated by the LGBT community! Over thousands of years, those who have actually continued to put their belief in their traditions, morals, and teachings have proven over and over to persevere thru the persecution, prejudice, and violence perpetrated against them.

ulvegaard
Medical Lake, Washington

I appreciate BYU Converts view point. And indeed, he does make a good point.

In not favoring gay marriage, I am not trying to prevent agency for anyone, I am concerned that there might be a deeper agenda. I honestly worry that the next step will be to coerce religious organizations to recognize and perform gay marriages in spite of their doctrine and policies. There has already been talk of threatening religious groups with denying them their tax exempt status if they continue to hold out against gay marriage. Maybe this 'threat' is exaggerated, I don't know, but it is for that reason that I continue to hold out.

I know it. I Live it. I Love it.
Provo, UT

‘Gay marriage debate is changing how Americans settle differences’

-The Deseret News comment pages have proven that true time and time again. America is falling. It's evident. Cats is right... we may not have much time. The real question is what are you going to do with it. Eventually we must all face whether we'll eat, drink, and be merry... or prepare ourselves for something better. Between God's kingdom, and the acceptance of the world... I know where I'll be happier in the end. From that alone, every decision I make ought to have that in mind.

"No unclean thing can enter into his kingdom".

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

@ Meckofahess: "Since there are quite of few (at least they claim to be LDS) on this forum who favor a position contrary to their Church when it comes to gay marriage; it will be interesting to see what the leaders of the Church have to say about such stances by members in the next conference. Perhaps it is time to include a question about our affiliation or sympathizing with groups who are opposed to the doctrines of the scriptures and the Church as a qualification for a temple recommend?"

Hmmm - perhaps they should also ask if you follow the church leaders and their admonition to not question the righteousness of others especially in public forums such as this one.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

"I am worried about is the potential for the LGBT activists to take it to the next level once they have achieved their goal of making homosexual marriage legal everywhere in the USA. I am worried that they will try to make it so that churches will be forced to perform same-sex marriage or be faced with penalties, such as losing their tax exempt status. This, of course, would be wildly unconstitutional,"

If you're right Billy Bob it won't happen, if you're wrong well...and the Supreme court by law, and by the constitution will make that decision. What you think won't sway their opinion.

The whole problem here is to this point the religious position has been found to be unconstitutional, doesn't make any difference if it meets your moral standards or the moral standards of any other person.

The courts will decide if it's legal God will decide if it's moral..that is if there is a God, but hey that's for another life..if there is another life.

Really???
Kearns, UT

I am tired of all of this. I am tired of being judged by strangers. I am tired of being compared to pedophiles, rapists, and murderers. I am tired of people questioning my love and commitment to God. I am tired of being told I am selfish because I don't want to spend the rest of my life alone. I am tired of being told that I made a choice to be gay.

I am tired of hearing the comments and noticing the disapproving looks when I am with other gay men in public--and we aren't behaving any differently than anyone else. I am tired of being afraid to go to the neighborhood park out of fear of being assaulted again. I am tired of being told that I don't love my LDS family and neighbors. I am tired of feeling like an outsider in the state where I was born. I am tired of being told that I am out to destroy religion.

Is there any wonder some of our youth lose hope and take their own lives?

intervention
slc, UT

@Meckofahess
It will also be interesting to see what they have to say about not questioning other faithfulness?

I know it. I Live it. I Love it.
Provo, UT

Really???,

When I got tired of problems in my life, I turned to the Savior. He helped me change. Our creator designed us and can reshape us if we let Him. It's hard and sometimes others around you make it harder. But Satan is our true enemy, not each other. You can't make yourself perfect, or anyone else. The Savior can. We don't have the capacity to change the world around us. But He can change us. Without Him we are broken and lost. With Him we will always succeed.

I don't blame you for being tired of others. But I'd suggest asking your bishop for advice, for a blessing, for guidance. Go to church. Read our scriptures. Pray. While you rely on the Savior, so do the rest of us. I don't hate you, but I've had similar burdens and had them lifted. I am telling you... there is only one person who can lift them. We have to forget about what others think, and worry about whether the Savior is pleased with us.

When you please Him, blessings will overflow so much that how others treat you won't matter.

Mayfair
City, Ut

slcdenizen said "There is an elephant in the room regarding "Christians". Where does Jesus mention homosexuality?"

Indeed, where does he mention child porn or human trafficking or any number of things?

Just because Jesus did not personally mention them is not reason enough to embrace them.

Avenue
Vernal, UT

@Really???
"I am tired of all of this."
So am I, but I am tired of the fact that my religion is being attacked and ridiculed in the state in which it is headquartered. I am saddened by the fact that the majority of Americans now support this evil practice.

"And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land." (Mosiah 29:27)

Stormwalker
Cleveland , OH

@SoCalChris:
I have to hand it to the gay rights movement. It used to be -- my private life is none of your business (I agree). Now it's -- I have a Constitutional right to society's approval of homosexuality. I'm dumbfounded that so many judges are buying it.

Actually, the private lives of GLBT American citizens were made the business of their neighbors through laws making Same Sex relationships illegal, making it legal to fire gays who are outed and so on.

I want my private life to be treated exactly like your private life. I want the legal protections you have, I want to be able to talk about my husband at work the same way you might mention your wife, I want to be able to hold hands or otherwise act like a couple in public. Nothing more, nothing less.

Karen R.
Houston, TX

@ "I know it. I live it. I love it."

When I consider some of the known consequences of our long-held beliefs about LGBTs - suicide, homeless children, harassment, discrimination, assault, murder - it is abundantly clear that our actions have not been examples of love and kindness, but rather of judgment and condemnation. Many young people are able to recognize this difference as well, even if they can't articulate it. I know I did. I walked away from those who couldn't see it as soon as I was able. And as polling tells us, more than ever before, today's youth are walking away as well.

I believe this undeniable evidence of harm is why some religious beliefs will not and should not be honored in the public sphere. They have no place there if we are to be a good and decent people.

Really???
Kearns, UT

This is not meant as an attack, but do you who suggested I turn to God for help not see the problem in your advice? Do you not think that that is exactly what I have done for forty years? I don't need your advice to turn to God--I have done that and continue to do that. He loves me and accepts me. I honestly believe He is waiting for the rest of His followers to catch up and be less judgmental but more loving.

I am reminded of the text of one of my favorite hymns:

Who am I to judge another
When I walk imperfectly?
In the quiet heart is hidden
Sorrow that the eye can't see?
Who am I to judge another?
Lord, I would follow thee.

We are commanded to love. It's that simple. I believe so many of us need to pause daily and pray to find love for those we find offensive and repulsive. It's time we all pray for more charity. I do it, and I was surprised at how God changed me.

nycut
New York, NY

@Really???:
Still they come, sitting in judgment of who you are, discussing what rights you deserve, choosing your religion for you.

Here's @know-live-love. Encouraging you to follow his/her path of righteousness so your burden will be lifted.

Next is @Mayfair, to add child porn and human trafficking to the list of "Things Ignorant People Associate with Being Gay." In defense of Christianity of course.

And @Avenue, so "sad" that her/his church would be criticized while it pushes laws that punish gay people for not choosing to follow its doctrine.

Self-righteous proselytizing, ignorance and prejudice, victimhood born of unearned entitlement.

We all recognize these simple songs, even with fewer people, singing louder.

Many have learned to overcome feeling uncomfortable. To see gay people as whole people, not adjectives. To give respect to earn respect.

Demand others follow your beliefs: be invited to mind your own business. Promote your anti-gay views in public: learn others may find those beliefs appalling and tell you so. Support anti-gay public policies: expect opposition from the fair-minded.

This poll, the positive shift in understanding, and national momentum toward equality shows continuing change for the better.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

Really: Give up being offended at everything and everyone and recognize that your lifestyle is considered a threat, for good reason, to a way of life that has proven to be the best for children to be raised. Just because you have chosen a different lifestyle or a different way of looking at things is not going to remove the threat people feel from your continued adherence to something that many feel is dangerous to not only children, but to civilization. You can go on and on about how tired you are of fighting the battle or you can just accept people for who they are and live your life accordingly. Everybody has burdens to carry. Yours is no different than many other burdens that people carry. You just have chosen to broadcast it to everyone! Make a choice and let people be who they are!

Testimony
Philadelphia, PA

Avenue,

Your religion is being attacked?! How is that?

Are you being forced to hide your religion, pretend to be a different one in public, and practice your religion in secret, like the Jews in 16th Century Spain who were converted to Christianity by force?

Is your property being seized, your family expelled from the state and you locked up in jail for your heresy, like the Baptists in early colonial Connecticut?

Are you being publicly whipped, thrown in jail and then hung from the gallows for not recanting your religion, like the Quakers in Massachusetts in the mid-17th Century?

Are your children taken from you by force to be brought up in a foreign religion, your language banned, your women sterilized, your sacred religious artifacts and instruments of worship burned like the Lapps (Sami peoples) of Scandinavia have, up through most of the 20th Century?

If you're simply being melodramatic over what you perceive as expressions of disapproval, perhaps it's an appropriate reaction to your expressing disrespect for others. It's hard to respect anyone who has no respect for others.

1aggie
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@Really?

Deepest condolences for the hurtful and harsh comments here.

As an LDS member, I think many are missing the essence of the Gospel. The LDS church is made poorer in every sense of the word because our gay brothers and sisters and their families are not welcome to participate and partake alongside the rest of us. While those inside the church look outward and point at the outward "worldly" iniquity they are blind to the iniquity that resides within.

Matthew 7
"21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Peace

Testimony
Philadelphia, PA

HeresAThought said,

"@Scientist: Your comments imply that society has no need for people of faith..."

As a person of faith, I feel comfortable in saying this. Society has need of good citizens, who treat each other with respect and loving care, who have empathy for each other's pains and trials, who are willing to help their neighbors in time of adversity, and support them against unjust accusations.

Faith is not an end unto itself. It leads some to find that source of universal love with which to fill themselves and share with others. But, however one becomes a good citizen and a loving neighbor, that is the end that matters. When an atheist practices good ethics and loving care of his neighbors because his heart or his head tells him to -- without faith, without fear of heaven-sent perdition, with no longing for posthumous reward -- he is everything God would ever wish for in one of His children, so treat him with respect.

If your faith comforts you, but you use it to discomfort others, it is of no value to society whatsoever.

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