Comments about ‘Letter: Religious freedom’

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Published: Thursday, March 6 2014 12:00 a.m. MST

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ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

This letter is a good example of why the Arizona bill was, in my opinion, a misfire and Governor Brewer made the right decision in vetoing it.

My oldest brother lives in North Carolina, and his daughters will likely want to someday get married in either the Raleigh, NC temple or Washington DC Temple. Suppose when that day comes, they can't find any businesses which will provide them with flowers, a cake or photographer because they chose to marry in an LDS temple?

With that in mind however, I believe there needs to be a constructive discussion on what in fact is the appropriate line between religious freedom verses the rights of others.

If, for example, I own a restaurant and tell all my employees they must taste each of the coffees, teas, and wines we serve, regardless of my employee's personal or religious beliefs, would that be okay, or would my employee's rights not to taste all those drinks trump my right to provide, as I see it, top quality customer service?

Another example, should parents have the right to withdraw their kids from sex ed or maturation classes based on religious beliefs?

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

I apologize. I shouldn't let it get me down so much! You should realize that many of us came from among you! We didn't just wake up one day and decide to be gay and most of us did not just give up our beliefs! It took a lot of years for me to deal with it! I always loved being around other members and sharing my life with them! This so painful to me! I never would have imagined members of the church wanting to pass laws that were meant to hurt me!
I can honestly tell you that over the years, I have tried with all my heart to be as close to members as possible and I think that very few of them even noticed! It is worse than that, isn't it! I am not going to try any more! it took me so many years of hoping to reach this point! I don't trust Mormons! How can I? life with my partner has been the happy part of my life! That is the truth! People would deny me that also! IT is not right! Oh well

ECR
Burke, VA

Well said, Jerry. Thanks for writing.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Agreed!

Thanks Jerry for this fine well articulated letter.

Ranch
Here, UT

I can't believe the DN printed this letter.

Great Letter, Jerry.

Opinionated
Sandy, UT

Hogwash. A business should have every right to do business (or not) with whomever they choose.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

A "celestial" marriage as defined by D&C Section 132 is a polygamous marriage. Probably why the bill is on the books. I don't care one way or the other about polygamy, but it seems important to know this in order to understand the history of this law.

Furry1993
Ogden, UT

Excellent and well reasoned letter. Thank you, Jerry Borrowman, for getting "it' right. Good job.

alleYcat
BATAVIA, IL

I believe in freedom. I should have the freedom to buy a product or not to buy a product. So it only stands to my reason that if a buyer has the freedom to buy or not buy, then the seller should also have the freedom to sell or not sell. A government that forces a seller to sell against their will is a government that will force a buyer to buy against their will. This is not freedom.

Flashback
Kearns, UT

Business decisions should be left up to the owner of the business, not the government. The Arizona law was a huge overreach and was quite correctly vetoed. Let the market determine the viability of the business if they refuse service to someone. Death threats, picketing, badmouthing in the media are all in bad form.

Demo Dave
Holladay, UT

For a moment there I thought I was reading the Tribune.

Steve C. Warren
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

Re: "I believe that a religion which endured great persecution for its views on marriage should be particularly sensitive to laws that give legal authority to discriminate against others in the public sphere."

Amen. Excellent letter.

Noodlekaboodle
Poplar Grove, UT

@alleYcat
What about the social contract? Do you really think that we all live in a bubble, and are totally self sufficent, and that things that the government does like build roads and public transit, provide fire/police/EMT services, water, electricity and an educated workforce do nothing for a business? If you don't why don't you try and open a business in South America or Africa and tell me that those things don't make a successful business. With that said, gay people pay taxes the same way the rest of us do. Why should they pay for roads, schools and all the other things I mentioned, and not be able to patronize business's that take advantage of the government services they help pay for?

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

ClarkHippo,
Have you even read the Arizona bill? It wasn't about the GLBT community. They are just the most vocal group that was against it.

I agree it was wrong-headed, but it wasn't what many characterize it to be. But it wasn't needed.

===

If somebody wouldn't sell me flowers because I was married in the temple... I think I'd go to the next flower shop and buy them there. No big deal.

The persecution Mormons went through back in the day wasn't somebody refusing to sell them flowers or make them a tea shirt they found offensive. It was being run off their property leaving their home, furniture, farm, etc, behind or be killed.

It's a totally different level of persecution. Don't sell me flowers... I have no problem with that. Threaten to kill me and rape my wife for being Mormon... I have a problem with that.

Nate
Pleasant Grove, UT

@Noodlekaboodle

A street leads to your home. Do you think this means that the taxpayers should be able to dictate what you do there? What about the social contract?

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

I find that those who shrug off the occurrence of discrimination or trivialize it are those who never face it and never expect to face it even if it were legal...

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

@2 bits

If somebody wouldn't sell me flowers because I was married in the temple... I think I'd go to the next flower shop and buy them there. No big deal.

================================

Should I be able to refuse to sell you flowers because you are black? Or white?

What if I live in no name city, Alabama where there may only be the one flower shop within 50 miles?

As an American, I should have the right to go to any business, that is open to the public and expect to be treated fairly. If a flower shop doesn't want to sell to Mormons, maybe they shouldn't open a flower shop.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Some of you shoudl be just ashamed of your uber-far-wing-wing selves....

This law the about the closest since the Nazi allowed descrimination of business to Jews, Homosexuals, minorities and and Illegal immigrants in Germany.

Legallized discrimination was the 1st legal step to the Final Solution...

HaHaHaHa
Othello, WA

"Should I be able to refuse to sell you flowers because you are black? Or white?"

Not really the same question is it? I didn't choose to be white or black, like I may have chosen to be Mormon or gay or at least to be gay married. This is the problem. We are comparing apples to oranges. Sad when some bleeding heart has to invent a scenario trying to equate apples to oranges. In a land of freedom, which we not longer have, you should be free to make choices. Those choices should belong to both sides. I personally think a private business should be able to discriminate between black and white. That is freedom, however in an evolved society like we have today, why would a business like that survive. In an environment of freedom, nobody would associate with that business. It really comes down to the leftist nuts desiring to impose their morality on the rest of society, but they forget how much they scream when the shoe is on the other foot. 2bits is exactly right. Denying someone service, isn't the same as assaulting them, or taking away their private property.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Nate

Pleasant Grove, UT

@Noodlekaboodle

A street leads to your home. Do you think this means that the taxpayers should be able to dictate what you do there? What about the social contract?

_____________

Try growing marijuana on your property, or beating your children and wife, or not paying your taxes and see if you can do whatever you want on your own property. There are laws governing your actions and the actions of business owners. They are made for the betterment of society.

Pretty simple, really.

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