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Comments about ‘Advocates rally and 'roar' for anti-discrimination bill’

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Published: Wednesday, March 5 2014 7:00 p.m. MST

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JSB
Sugar City, ID

@twocents

Are you looking for a reason to take offense? Biologically, the main reason for sex is reproduction and in the human species this has evolved into a heterosexual pair bond called marriage. Sex within the heterosexual pair bond not only is the way a zygote is formed, it can also enhance the strength of the commitment of the bonded pair. If babies don't come, that doesn't mean the couple don't have a strong pair bond. For practical legal reasons, the definition of marriage should be as simple and clear as possible in order to to avoid unnecessary confusion and protect the traditional family and the institution of marriage. That's why the definition of marriage has been a legal exclusive relationship between one man and one woman. This is simple, uncomplicated and protects the institution of marriage and family while preserving the best environment for children. Anything else becomes unnecessarily complicated and then where does it stop? You and your spouse are legally married which is as it should be. But, what will happen if marriage becomes John and George and Greg and Sam? Or those four plus Suzie and Sally? Do you really want this?

Ken
Sandy, UT

Values,

I'm not a doctor but I do work in the medical field and I can tell you that yes, medical professionals use a very simple way to determine whether someone is male or female at birth and that yes. And yes, most very young children understand this. Yes there are rare cases of people who dont "fit" those definitions, but those still are the definitions used.

"Finally, before one even gets to definitions, one might have to sort out questions like -- is someone fully male or fully female? "

You're getting ahead of yourself, how could we determine if somoene was fully male or female if we didnt know what male/female was to begin with?

I can tell you're really trying hard to be philosophical about this - and thats fine. You appear to be well intentioned. And perhaps you're onto a good idea that will change the world as far as societies seperate genders or not.

But what is more relevant and applicable to this article is what this bill proposes.

A Quaker
Brooklyn, NY

@jsb, 2Cents: You might enjoy reading the Amicus brief of 40 Family Law Professors. (Hollinger, et al, filed March 4.)

"Utah’s marriage ban, however, does not further child well-being or responsible parenting. As Amici demonstrate, Appellants’ arguments to the contrary lack any basis in history, law, or logic.

"Utah’s marriage ban actually undermines its interests in children and child welfare. The ban does not assist children in any family, but it does inflict direct and palpable harms on same-sex couples and their children who are denied access to hundreds of important benefits under state and federal law.

"Finally, even if there were any rational reason to believe that the ban would induce better behavior by different-sex couples, both Utah authorities and the U.S. Supreme Court have foreclosed the punishment of children as a means to influence adult behavior."

In sum, marriage rights and children's rights are two separate issues, and one doesn't determine or fix the other. Utah used to try to do this with illegitimacy laws, but SCOTUS shot those down long ago.

RedShirtMIT
Cambridge, MA

To "TheTrueVoice" but that is not equal. Aren't we tying to make things equal for everybody? Why should gays be able to get all of the benefits of marriage just because they want to legitimize their sexual relationship, yet 2 best friends cannot get the same benefits. That is not equal and it is not fair.

Don't you want to treat everybody equally? Why don't you want to be fair?

GZE
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

RBB, some people called for a boycott of a movie based on one of Orson Scott Card's books; you call that discrimination.

Some people also called for a boycott of Disney when they first offered benefits to same sex couples. Was that discrimination as well?

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

I have lived here all my life! I grew up among these people and when I love somebody, it never goes away! I realized that one day when we were talking about a friend who did something really bad to me and then hasn't spoken to me in 25 years! I was still thinking about him and some friends asked me why I still cared. I realized that it would always be there. I will always love the members of the church and I feel tremendous pain to see what they are doing and to experience all of the contempt they have for us and knowing how bad they think we are is devastating! How could they believe such degrading things and then they are obsessed with the bad things they are doing! We have to face discrimination from the people we love! What are we supposed to do? It is so wrong and they don't see it! Instead of passing an anti-discrimination law, they want to pass laws that allow them to discriminate against us! It is so very wrong!

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

Somebody needs to stop this. I say that from my heart. This is not what life should be and some of you need to listen to us! We shouldn't have to experience these things! It destroys people and it destroys relationships! Sometimes it changes life and it is never the same again! Keep the beliefs you need to keep, but somehow it needs to change! You have to allow us to live our lives and let God be our judge! We can take responsibility for our own lives and we can face God with it! Somebody has to see how wrong it is! People do their bad deeds and they walk away from us and we are the ones who have to deal with the pain! They dismiss what they do by using their beliefs! People can't see or feel it because thery don't take time to understand! we can say it is wrong. It is our lives that are on the line!
We are meant to care about each other! Surely people see that what is happening does the opposite! So much is lost! We can't make people care!

SallyOMalley
Bozeman, MT

"Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way." None of the people fighting for special gay rights wants us to know that it's a choice they are making.

(I say special gay rights, because the lesbian woman has the same right as a heterosexual woman to marry a man, and a gay man has the same rights as a heterosexual man to marry a woman. Gays want a special right to marry someone of the same gender.)

I quoted the above from american vision dot org, but my comment was denied due to the link. I am not linking here, only providing the source I used for the quote.

TheTrueVoice
West Richland, WA

@ RedShirtMIT: "Aren't we tying to make things equal for everybody? Why should gays be able to get all of the benefits of marriage just because they want to legitimize their sexual relationship, yet 2 best friends cannot get the same benefits. That is not equal and it is not fair."

Sir, your above argument is intellectually dishonest. That, or you are being willfully obtuse.

That said, your one comment does indeed completely reveal animus toward homosexuals: "Why should gays be able to get all of the benefits of marriage just because they want to legitimize their sexual relationship?"

Think about what you have just said here... do you believe heterosexuals only marry to "legitimize their sexual relationship"? Of course not. So why would you want to apply this standard to the homosexual community? Do you see the disconnect here?

Liberty For All
Cedar, UT

If this bill ever sees the light of day, how do I explain right from wrong to my children when a man dressed as a woman followings my daughter in the restroom?

equal protection
Cedar, UT

@JSB "Children can and do thrive in a lot of different kinds of “families” but, for the sake of the rising generation, we should strive for the ideal, not just the selfishly convenient."

Then you need to propose a parental fitness test in order to obtain a civil marriage license. Ideal must include criminal record checks, income and educational attainment. All known predictors of ideal child outcomes (the rising generation).

Meanwhile, please explain how excluding same-sex couples from civil marriage makes children thrive more ideally in opposite sex civil marriages? Please describe the process in as much detail as possible so I can understand.

equal protection
Cedar, UT

@Tekakaromatagi.
" Why does them having 'sex' make their relationship so much more special and valuable to society than my relationship to my siblings, or my parents?"

Our courts have determined that a right to marry someone for which there is no intimate attraction is no right at all. Moreover, sexual orientation for most people is not a choice, it is fundamental to ones personhood and identity, and requirement to change sexual orientation in order to marry is unconstitutional. Religious belief, on the other hand is considered a choice. No evidence exists that a desire to marry 3 or more people, dogs, cats, parents or siblings is an innate characteristic, like gender, race and sexual orientation. Therefore, the government is not obligated to recognize every type of relationship a person may seek to enter.

luvbug
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

As a Christian I feel I am being forced to accept the behavior and lifestyle that goes against what the word of God says. If you consider that discriminatory then your telling a Christian that their God is discriminatory and that is far from the truth. I believe we are at the end of times and the Bible specifically talks about who will inherit the kingdom of heaven and who will not. It would be a disgrace to other states if Utah were to be destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah, because we are representing the lifestyle of those cities. I always took pride in living in the State of Utah. Recognizing we represented good family values, the commitment to education, but most importantly representing how we lived our lives-leading by a Godly example, where are we going?

Really???
Kearns, UT

@Ted H

"You contradict yourself."

There is no contradiction. The fears that are being spread are that any man can simply decide to claim to be a woman and then be allowed to use women's restrooms, locker rooms, and dressing facilities. That is simply not the case. The text of the bill says that the burden of proof will be on the person requesting the use of those facilities. It will require medical documentation.

It would be your burden to prove that you were the actual owner of the my home. Do you have mortgage documents? Do you have the title stored away somewhere? Do you have evidence to prove that the majority of voters elected you President of the United States?

Quite frankly, these arguments are used by people who don't care to exhibit any form of empathy for people who are in any way different. Our community would be a much better place if we stopped making light of the serious issues others face and started trying to be a little bit kinder to one another.

equal protection
Cedar, UT

@ LoveBug "..... then your telling a Christian that their God is discriminatory and that is far from the truth."

But whose God dictates civil marriage law?

The following Christian churches love, embrace, honor and perform same-sex marriages:

Affirming Pentecostal Church International
Alliance of Christian Churches
Anointed Affirming Independent Ministries
The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Community of Christ
Conservative Judaism
Ecumenical Catholic Church
Ecumenical Catholic Communion
The Episcopal Church
Evangelical Anglican Church In America
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Global Alliance of Affirming Apostolic Pentecostals
Inclusive Orthodox Church
Metropolitan Community Church
Old Catholic Church
Progressive Christian Alliance
Reconciling Pentecostals International
Reconstructionist Judaism
Reform Judaism
Reformed Anglican Catholic Church
Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
Unitarian Universalist Church
United Church of Christ
Unity Church

Stormwalker
Cleveland , OH

@SallyOMalley quoted some information from the website of American Vision.

American Vision teaches Dominion Theology, and has the open goal of a theocratic government in the United States with the death penalty for many groups and individuals who oppose their interpretation of biblical law.

This is not rumor or innuendo, research Dominion Theology and the groups that teach it. Read their goals for this country and the many groups they list as enemies or threats.

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