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Ask Angela: LDS women have unrealistic expectations

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  • Waltz # 2 San Diego, CA
    May 3, 2014 12:12 p.m.

    LDS women are not the only one with unrealistic expectations. LDS men are so much worse regarding this that many of my LDS (girl)friends have begun dating nonmembers and marrying outside the church. This is because they felt like the nonmember guys actually wanted to get to KNOW THEM and didn't see them as a checklist like LDS guys did. Men have extremely unrealistic expectations about the physical characteristics a woman is supposed to have. They want beauty standards that very few women are incapable of achieving along with the testimony and spiritual nobility of Ruth, Esther, Eliza R. Snow, Emma Smith, etc. I find it extremely hypocritical how guys lecture women on how they should be realistic when it comes to finding an eternal companion (i.e., don't look for a Brad Pitt with a testimony), yet don't follow that protocol themselves. LDS men think they're entitled to someone who looks like their favorite female celebrity who just so happens to have a strong testimony. I think once this LDS man realizes that those girls don't exist and opens his mind, he'll be more likely to find somebody perfectly suited for him.

  • antodav TAMPA, FL
    March 13, 2014 4:07 p.m.

    Of course the poor guy is getting it thrown back into his face instead of anyone actually trying to understand his frustrations. He’s absolutely right. i saw it for myself in a YSA ward for two years. But the culture in the church perpetuates this myth that men are to blame for all difficulties pertaining to dating and women are just victims of uncaring, selfish men. This simply is not the case, as much as it may annoy or offend many women to hear someone say so.

    And yes. Being from Utah has a LOT to do with it.

  • DCHew Bounti, UT
    March 6, 2014 4:32 p.m.

    The issue of women having high expectations is because they are taught from a young age that NOBODY is good enough for them. They sit in judgement of good men that lack confidence after being rejected by self righteous hard handed princesses. To that I have had specific experience. However, the advice given to date until you find someone that loves you is the best I have read. I did. She was 2.5 inches taller, beautiful, much younger and only took my date as an obligation. After getting together as "friends", she asked to kiss me. Unbeknownst to me, and believing it was out of brotherly love, she let me know it was more than friends. What a great woman and most incredible friend a man could have. It took a long time but the wait is worth the time invested.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 6, 2014 8:57 a.m.

    22ozn44ozglass
    Southern Utah, UT

    Agreed.

  • 22ozn44ozglass Southern Utah, UT
    March 5, 2014 6:37 p.m.

    "I taught my "princess" to have high expectations. Expect the guy to open the door for you, make the plans for the date, come to the door, meet the parents and respect them, respect HER!"

    I often hear fathers/mothers say things like this plus many more requirements to their daughters. However, I have yet to hear mothers/fathers spend any where near equal time/emphasis on teaching their daughters how to treat dates/husbands like a prince and what treating him with respect requires from them.

    This begs the question of what you LDS mothers/fathers (not just catfish) teach your daughters about what a date/husband can/should expect of her. Do you/your wife spend equal time teaching your daughters how to treat and respect a young man whether that be a first date or being married to him.

    From my experience\observations, LDS parents spend vastly more time\effort focusing on what their daughter can\should expect from a date\a husband compared to what a date\husband can/should expect from their daughter & this gives birth to a sense of entitlement among LDS women.

  • 22ozn44ozglass Southern Utah, UT
    March 5, 2014 6:00 p.m.

    While I don't agree entirely with what this man wrote, I do believe there is a trend and some real substance to what he has to say albeit not well articulated. I think part of the problem stems from the fact that LDS women are taught to honor and respect the priesthood but not the man/boy who holds it. For years I can remember standing up and reciting a written statement in priesthood and one of the tenants of that document was to respect women and girls.

    I have wondered if the LDS women had something similar during that time and what it said. Granted I do not attend relief society to know first hand, but I have been told by multiple LDS women that they had something similar but it was worded as respect and honor the priesthood.

    Perhaps some of the sisters can clarify this and document where in YW and relief Society curriculum that they are directly taught to/admonished to respect men for being men independent of whether they hold the priesthood or not similar to the creedo that we recited in Priesthood.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    March 5, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    To "my3cents" I would suggest to your son that he not persue a girl with career ambitions. If they have children, your grandchildren would be second to their mother's career. Do you want your grandchildren to be raised by a part-time mother?

    He should seek a girl that has a testimony, and will love him, and knows about sacrificing personal desires to help others. There will be nothing more satisfying than to come home to see his wife raising their children, and the joy on his children's faces.

    If your son is looking for a girl who will work outside the home once they have children, that could be part of the reason why he can't find a girl. What girl wants to get married knowing that their husband will never fully support the family?

    I know I may be reading into what you are saying, but I am just offering this as a bit of warning to those that expect a mother and father to both work to support a family.

    Plus, your son is still young. Lighten up a bit. If he was 35, I would be more concerned.

  • my3cents Nashville, TN
    March 5, 2014 9:46 a.m.

    I have a son who is 23 and would very much like to get married. He's an RM, owns his own home and makes enough money to support a family in a modest fashion. He complains that many young men and women his age have no ambition. That they pursue degrees that will produce no earning power and are content to live at home and work a low wage job. He'd like an LDS girl with career ambitions, but who is also devout. He's quite frustrated. He is a little on the short side and I suspect some girls have passed him by on this alone. He tells me that average looks are acceptable for him as long as the girl puts reasonable effort into her appearance and is cheerful. I tell him that sooner or later someone will see you for what you are and be excited about you. The problem is that when a young man or woman has spent years dating with no suitable prospects it can seem like there is little hope. The guy who wrote in is frustrated, and should be cut a little slack for letting off some steam.

  • garybeac Chapel Hill, NC
    March 5, 2014 8:14 a.m.

    LDS men and women should look among non-members for spouses. There are many good non-members who are thrilled to find LDS men and women with our gifts of faith in Christ, hope in integrity, desire to grow in charity, and especially, our simple chastity. For men and women of good will, these qualities are powerful "turn ons," and by this response in them, we can see their spiritual potential and help them achieve it. Nothing about marriage is a sure thing except that the divorce rate among both LDS and non-LDS is about 50%, so there is no greater risk of failure in setting your heart free to fly to and fro across the waters. Some of the strongest marriages I've seen are LDS to non-LDS, the latter always grateful for the faith to which the former brought him or her. But this puts an even greater responsibility on us to hold fast to the iron rod, the simple Word of God, and to work to understand what part of that is eternal and what part is just our cultural expectations. BTW, avoid anyone who has height or income standards. Divorce among them is 87%.

  • RFLASH Salt Lake City, UT
    March 5, 2014 6:59 a.m.

    It may be an issue with Mormon culture. The good thing about Mormons is the way they pull together. There is a great deal of support. Once in a while there may be something that just doesn't work for somebody, but it is hard because of peer pressure! It is sort of like being a liberal among the conservatives! what is ideal for most Mormons is not for him, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't believe. We don't always have to do what everybody else is doing. He probably needs a woman who is a littl. more on the liberal side. Somebody who thinks a little different. I remember my bishop complaining one day because many of the single women would come to him for advice and they did have extremely high and unrealistic expectations of what the husband should be like! I say he just needs someone that thinks outside the box a little. At least he thinks about it. It is better to be open about those expectations

  • raybies Layton, UT
    March 5, 2014 6:50 a.m.

    I've been married for nearly 20 years now and sometimes I still get depressed at how poorly my wife understands me, or men/boys in general... Some times her high expectations are inspiring, and they help me to be the best version of myself, but other times it can be very difficult, because I feel like I'm just another stranger she doesn't get. We love each other, we try to be one, but we're still so different.

    All it takes is one person willing to spend her life with you, but even when you find each other, there will still be times of loneliness, unmet expectations and disappointment. Learning to cope with these feelings now is probably very healthy.

  • ImABeliever Provo, UT
    March 5, 2014 6:27 a.m.

    I am an older man and single but attractive and very L.D.S. and not from Utah. Even women my age act like they want to marry the Prophet. There are good people every where but the singles world makes me cringe.

  • LovelyDeseret Gilbert, AZ
    March 5, 2014 5:21 a.m.

    Dating is complex. I think it is supposed to be that way. Men and women are different, in many ways that is the beauty of the arrangement.

  • JohnG Provo, UT
    March 5, 2014 5:12 a.m.

    I have no doubt that he's right (or mostly right) because I know tons of guys who have gone through similar experiences. I'm willing to accept that there might be a problem with *me*. But I don't think there's a problem with *all* of my friends in their late 20s and early 30s who are smart, successful, funny, active in the church, etc. Granted, I know plenty of people who have gotten married as well, and I also know that part of the problem is that a lot of these guys are as picky as the girls are, but this is a real phenomenon.

  • Sitting Under a Tree Grantsville, UT
    March 5, 2014 12:32 a.m.

    As a young RM, I had a long list of expectations, which many who were interested in me failed to meet. Often, I failed to meet the expectations of those I wanted to date.

    I met many men and women, seemingly drowning in unfulfilled expectations. Some figured it out; others ended up bitter and disillusioned.

    I also met many who lived free of expectation, simply looking for someone they could love and respect, and who would love and honor them.

    I decided, rather than focus on others' expectations, to dedicate myself to constant improvement - to become the man *I* wanted to be.

    As time passed, I progressed and offered more as a potential husband. I worried less about expectations, and my long list shrank. As my list shrank, I worried less about others' lists.

    In my late forties, I met a woman who fits me perfectly. In my twenties, I might not have considered her, as she didn't match parts of my early list. And I certainly wasn't "improved" enough then to feel confident in what I offered her. Now, years into an amazing marriage, I can't imagine being with anyone else.

  • Janet Ontario, OR
    March 4, 2014 8:08 p.m.

    Boy meets girl. There's no chemistry. There's no blossoming relationship. Boy meets girl. There is chemistry. They are determined to remain chaste. Relationship blooms. Attraction becomes problematic, which often leads to arguing and breaking up and often leads to hurried marriage. Online dating ("LDSmatchmaker.com, for example) provides a way to meet people at a safe distance, so you can get to know one another before you find out if there's chemistry. You have to be careful, of course. It's a jungle online, too, but you can tell a lot by reading a profile and doing some online chatting before you meet. I had a couple of huge disasters, but eventually,it worked for me, and I know others who are happily married after meeting online.

  • U-tar Woodland Hills, UT
    March 4, 2014 6:31 p.m.

    Women want it all now days. Truth of the matter is, most will never get it.

  • Anadine South Jordan, UT
    March 4, 2014 5:17 p.m.

    This young man seems intent on laying blame for his woes solely at the feet of these terrible women without considering that he might need to change something in his own life. I would be concerned for any woman dating him! This is very self centered thinking, and would lead to serious marital problems in the future. Perhaps their "expectations" are really his rationalization for their rejection of him because of legitimate concerns about his red flags.

  • Ed Grady Idaho Falls, ID
    March 4, 2014 4:53 p.m.

    The best way to find a wife is to not look for one. Guys that are "looking" for a wife usually come across as creepy.

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    March 4, 2014 4:44 p.m.

    "But, when it comes to dating, I’m not the issue here."

    Friend, when it comes to dating, love, and marriage, eventually you figure out just how wrong this is! ;)

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    March 4, 2014 2:34 p.m.

    Find a girl you think looks nice, has a pleasant demeanor. Get the ingredients and bake some bread from scratch. You'll learn more about someone from this activity than you will from any contrived social experience, like going to a dance - which few people do after they get married. Notice everything about her, her deportment, how she responds and how she treats you. Then think to yourself "Would I want to do this with this person for the rest of my life"? Oh, and butter on fresh baked bread is one of the best experiences of life and even better if you have a chiq flick like "The Notebook" to enjoy it with.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    March 4, 2014 11:43 a.m.

    tomr,

    Yes. I should have gone to the source article vs. taking the quote from another site.

    My apologies for the oversight - and thank you.

  • Shawnm750 West Jordan, UT
    March 4, 2014 11:22 a.m.

    @Hoss817 - "I told him that there is no possible way that any of these girls would want to marry him."

    I think you're doing this young man a disservice telling him this. Admittedly, I don't know the entire situation, but there's no reason that even with his emotional challenges he can't expect to marry a girl whom he finds attractive. Physical attraction is important in a relationship, though it's certainly not the most important thing. What I hope you meant is that he shouldn't be so focused on finding a girl who's JUST pretty and that he should be more focused on finding a girl who also loves him for who he is, including his imperfections. Someone with whom he enjoys spending time and has common interests.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    March 4, 2014 10:50 a.m.

    I said it before. This guy is trying too hard.

    Be friends with the women you would like to date first. If you are just getting to know them, take it slow.

    You sound like a few single men that I know that are pushing 40 and have never been married. They complain about the standards that the women want, but never think to ask themselves if they are the type of person that these women want.

    Some of the single men that I know still live similarly to how they did in Highschool, or still have one foot in their mission from 20 years ago.

    The point is you won't find the right woman to marry if you are dating every girl that crosses your path. You will marry the woman that you become best friends with.

    The same can be equally applied to women.

  • RideMore WEST JORDAN, UT
    March 4, 2014 8:36 a.m.

    I empathize with YSA Man, having been through similar experiences. I grew up as an active Latter-day Saint, tried to serve a mission at 19, and was "honorably excused." I found that most LDS women were not interested at all in a guy that wasn't a returned missionary, even though I had done what was expected of me and it wasn't my choice. After much fasting and prayer, I married a wonderful, Catholic woman who loved me for who I was. Two years later I baptized her and a year after that we were sealed in the temple. We have now been married 17 years. I now serve in the bishopric in our ward as the counselor over young women. I have made it a point to counsel those young women and their leaders about the importance of marrying someone that they can spend eternity loving rather than holding out for the knight in shining armor they have been told they deserve and have dreamt about since they were three years old. Settling isn't the right word either. It's more about maturing expectations. And it isn't just young women that have a problem.

  • Hoss817 Queen Creek, AZ
    March 4, 2014 8:28 a.m.

    Some young people over idealize expectations, and some under idealize. My grandmother always told us that "don't wait to pick your corn until the end of the row". I remember line from M*A*S*H when Hawkeye tells Margaret that they were both to choosy, expecting a custom fit in an off the rack world.

    I am fostering a young man who has emotional problems. He keeps trying to date the prettiest girls, and then gets mad that they won’t go on a second date. I told him that there is no possible way that any of these girls would want to marry him. He needed to date girls that could possibly like him that way.

    For this young man in the article, he needs to quit whining and focus on improving himself. He also needs to get to place where the girls may like him more. It seemed to me that he is whining about the pretty girls he's trying to date, wanting them to change their expectations, but he's not willing to change any of his expectations.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    March 4, 2014 8:08 a.m.

    'Ask Angela: LDS women have unrealistic expectations’

    ==========

    It's not just during the dating,
    This even applies to those of us who are married.

  • donn layton, UT
    March 4, 2014 7:52 a.m.

    RE: The Scientist, Paul was never married,[True] and some scholars[wrong] think he had something against women.

    …it’s better to stay unmarried, just as I am. 9 But if they can’t control themselves, they Should Marry. It’s better to marry than to burn with lust. (1Cor 7:8-9).

    Peter confirms Paul “… those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his(Paul’s) letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture... (2 Peter 3:16)

    @ Scientists “I don't place much stock in his ideas.” Mormons do,
    (A of F #13). We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul "we believe all things] we hope all things," we have endured many things[,] and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praise worthy . It’s better marry than burn,[praiseworthy,] we seek after these things. Paul (Philippians 4:8-13)

  • Incite Full Layton, UT
    March 4, 2014 6:47 a.m.

    Dear frustrated dating mormon guy who appears to be trying to make a go of finding someone to love,

    Don't you see how "Ask(ing) Angela" if there's something wrong with the women that you're dating is a bit like asking the fox to guard the henhouse?

    She's not going to give you the type of answer you're looking for, even if she could admit that there might be something to your perceptions. Can you imagine how popular she'd be if she actually spoke to the truth of the women in the dating pool?

    Just a clue... good luck.

  • catifsh orem, UT
    March 4, 2014 1:45 a.m.

    As a father, I taught my "princess" to have high expectations. Expect the guy to open the door for you, make the plans for the date, come to the door, meet the parents and respect them, respect HER! It has been a difficult search, and she is still looking, because many young men today do not have the humility that they should have to treat a woman this way. And many of these not so humble guys, amazingly enough, don't have the confidence enough to make decisions. I can't even count the times my daughter got into the car for a date with a guy and he says, "so what do you want to do, where shall we go?" Absolutely astounding! If you really get to know and love someone, it doesn't matter where you live, as long as you are together. Really! REALLY! Stop looking so hard for a mate, and just make friends, it will all work out. Your best friend will be your best match, too!

  • David Mohr Victoria/BC/Canada, 00
    March 3, 2014 10:44 p.m.

    I have a friend who agrees....a lot of LDS ladies do have unreal expectations. He is hard-working, holds a temple recommend and basically a happy person. This is not enough for the women around us. They want more money coming in, a better or more prestigious job, not working nights, and more. We are not asking for a beauty queen or perfection - we want a woman who appreciates being appreciated, who likes going to the temple, who is willing to be supportive emotionally and spiritually, who is looking for a man who will support her.

  • tomr Salt Lake City, ut
    March 3, 2014 9:24 p.m.

    Twin Lights, just to clarify, Pres. Hinckley was quoting someone else. Jenkin Lloyd Jones I believe.

  • ulvegaard Medical Lake, Washington
    March 3, 2014 4:35 p.m.

    I can relate on so many levels. During my dating experience I encountered many young women who were waiting for Brad Pitt to join the church and be ordained a bishop. On the other hand several men are hoping that J-lo will be the next Relief Society President.

    Much of the time we need to adjust our thinking and our expectations to reality in a righteous direction. As one responder noted, its not bad to hope for what your parents have, but some of that comes after years of struggling together. Our instant gratification society hasn't prepared us very much for the realities of life and celestial relationships.

  • Kaladin Greeley, CO
    March 3, 2014 3:56 p.m.

    Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me. Shouldn't you want your future spouse to have high standards? Shouldn't you try to live up to such a standard? I know a lot of LDS short guys from Utah that are happily married. Again, sour grapes about being short. If you don't want to marry a girl that wants you to live in Utah then move on to another girl. I went to BYU, so I dated plenty of girls from Utah - never once did any of them say they wanted a man that would live in Utah. Maybe you need to realize that you have things to change in your life you are still a child of God and worthy of a wonderful marriage. If you are not worthy of such a marriage you can change your ways. Be yourself, date a variety of girls, and eventually you will find someone that you work with. Frustration with lofty standards won't help.

  • Acegrace Lilburn, GA
    March 3, 2014 2:01 p.m.

    I don't want to bash Utah unfairly or too generally because I did not live there or go to school there (even when offered the chances to do so.) As a young woman from Wyoming originally and having been in Georgia for a long time, I can tell from the Utahns that have visited or moved in that the culture is somewhat myopic. Additionally, young women in today's broader society - LDS or not - have too many princess fantasies anyway.

    Marrying within the covenant is an important principle of living the Gospel to its fullness, but sometimes the yardsticks fashioned for this can be too short. ("RM's only" is not necessarily bad, but in a place without many eligible LDS men outside Utah for example, this would eliminate valuable candidates.)

    As I can testify, marrying an RM is no guarantee anyway if they don't keep their covenants.
    Being married to a non-LDS man in my 2nd marriage has been difficult, and only 7% of non-LDS spouses ever join the Church. This leads to divided goals and families.

    You just have to keep "seeking" and you shall "find" if you ask for the Lord's guidance.

  • dotp POTEAU, OK
    March 3, 2014 1:58 p.m.

    I met my eternal companion 27 years ago this Friday. I wasn't looking for a partner at the time, but had been doing a lot of personal evaluation and was trying to decide what attributes I should look for if I ever did want a good partner as I had had two failed marriages, one before becoming a church member and one after with a non-member. I realized I needed to make some changes in my own ideals, so I did. I also realized, after talking to friends and my bishop that my FIRST step in considering a partner for marriage, was to learn if this was the one GOD had in mind for me. Long story short, I did this when I met my husband of the last 26 1/2 years and had it confirmed to me quite clearly that this was the one. Once that was confirmed I never looked back. Do we have differences? YES! Are they a problem? NO! We have learned to pray together and ask for help if the differences become too overwhelming.

  • sally Kearns, UT
    March 3, 2014 1:45 p.m.

    Two expectations my daughter has in a marriage spouse is that he honor his priesthood and provide a survivable living for a family. I guess I could add that he brush his teeth and shower regularly. Oh, also one who can converse intelligently. Most of the men she knows fail in these areas. So, is she really that picky?

  • cavetroll SANDY, UT
    March 3, 2014 1:30 p.m.

    In my experience, some LDS women, especially here in Utah can be quite pretentious. As a Catholic, this perception can be greatly enhanced when a woman won't even give you the time of day. (I once had a girl say no to me for homecoming because she wanted to get married in the temple. We were in high school.)
    Has YSA man tried to date simply for dating? No romance, no expectations, etc? Why not go out with his friends and even (gasp!) go to a dance club. You don't need to drink to have fun. You may even be surprised to find some LDS women there just having fun and dancing.

  • The Scientist Provo, UT
    March 3, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    donn wrote:

    "Paul explains in this case the Christians married to non-Christians are not bound to the other (1Cor 7 :12-15)."

    Thank goodness neither my wife nor I believe such notions. Paul was never married, and some scholars think he had something against women. I don't place much stock in his ideas.

  • E L Frederick Sierra Vista, AZ
    March 3, 2014 12:12 p.m.

    YSA man is absolutely correct. LDS women from behind the Zion Curtain are absolutely clueless when it comes to men. They are looking for Mr. Perfect, and by the time they learn that Mr. Perfect doesn't exist or already found his Ms. Perfect, they are well on their way to be becoming bitter old maids. YSA man would be much better off finding himself a good non-LDS woman who is open minded enough to honestly investigate the church.

    (I'm originally from Davis County, and have spent about half my life in Utah. I'm just not living there now, and have no desire to return.)

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    March 3, 2014 11:50 a.m.

    "If you're a ball of "dating anxiety" you're not going to be very attractive to anyone. Relax. Stop hunting so hard and enjoy dating a variety of people with the purpose of enjoying your time together"

    Very true. But, that "dating anxiety" may be fostered by everyone around him. I have seen the pressure, then never ending questions, the disappointment when one is not married at a young age.

    Everyone is not a robot. People are all different. The advice you get is typically one-size-fits-all. Whether from your relatives, friends or church leaders.

    People should just leave others alone in matters like this. We are not all designed to be married at 22 and have 8 children. There is more than one way to live life.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    March 3, 2014 11:37 a.m.

    @Twin Lights – “Both young men and young women can have unrealistic expectations. President Hinckley once said…”

    That’s a great quote…

    A couple of formulas here are instructive…

    Happiness = Reality minus expectations. Hard to be happy when the number is negative.

    Also: Self Esteem = Success divided by self-delusion - where Success = (Persistence times learning from mistakes) minus failures.

    Sorry for all the math but the bottom line is young people (anyone really) need to first know themselves and then try to let go of the expectations associated with things they cannot control.

    But your quote said all this much better… thanks.

  • kimnprovo Orem, UT
    March 3, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    Quite frankly, movies, television and even some novels are partially to blame. Too many women have this fantasy built up in their minds of how it will be. Sure, some of it might be that they want what Mom and Dad have (which isn't a bad thing), but not realizing how long it took them to get to where they are today. Mostly though, it's these romantic notions that get into our brains and take over. How many women I know who have told me about how they expected to turn the corner and literally bump into "Mr. Right". Then they found that not only did they never bump into anyone, but they never really found "Mr. Right", so they married "Mr. I Can Figure Out to Make It Work". Problem is that while women have these romantic notions, men have these physical requirements that little, if any, women can live up to.

    It's sad really, but true.

  • donn layton, UT
    March 3, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    RE: The Scientist, I’m married to a Mormon, as well. I was married in a Mormon church and left the LDS Church when I became a Christian 13 years later.
    Paul explains in this case the Christians married to non-Christians are not bound to the other (1Cor 7 :12-15). It is difficult at times especially but we are still married.

  • ? SLC, UT
    March 3, 2014 9:59 a.m.

    Try becoming friends with those you are dating first. No doubt both single LDS men and women need to feel secure in each others company. It takes a leap of faith for both to give each other a chance and some things take time. In the mean time, save up for your future home and things you'd like to do with your future family. If anything, start planning how you will provide for your future kids and the quality of life you want for them. Talk to your parents about how much income they have to bring in to keep up with their monthly and annual expenses to get a feel for what you'll be facing some day. Sooner or later you'll find the person you will marry and you will then be better prepared for all that comes next.

  • Jamescmeyer Midwest City, USA, OK
    March 3, 2014 9:28 a.m.

    As a frustrated man in the dating scene, and given the apparent general view that unmarried women are unfortunate while unmarried men are neglecting some kind of responsibility, I can't say I'm pleased with the kind of reception someone voicing frustrations in the same camp as mine is getting.

    I don't blame sisters, but like anyone still unmarried at my age, I can't help but grasp frustratedly at some explanation, as though there were some single magical reason-some one thing to fix that would make it all better. Naturally, one idea that comes to mind is that it isn't my own fault. Itt's probably not actually anyone's fault, but sometimes I wonder-and I'm sure most in my position wonder at times-if there is some simplified, consistant problem with the people I'm seeing.

  • The Scientist Provo, UT
    March 3, 2014 9:09 a.m.

    Just glad I met and married my LDS wife. Beautiful, talented, intelligent, accomplished, and willing to defy the Mormon nonsense that claims "LDS young men and women must hold themselves to a different standard for dating, and marriage than the world." Thank goodness for women who do not get caught up in such religious prejudice and discrimination, and who treat others has human beings rather than as "insiders" and "outsiders" in some controlling organization.

  • LittleStream Carson City, NV
    March 3, 2014 8:21 a.m.

    Why are you upset because the young women see themselves as princesses? Don't you see yourself as a prince? Didn't see the original letter so don't know if you are LDS? If not, why are you dating LDS women? LDS young men and women must hold themselves to a different standard for dating, and marriage than the world. I think you are probably too critical, if you think the three criteria are the most important to young LDS women, or you are dating the wrong women. I also think you have been very disappointed by an LDS woman because she didn't pick you. Hope I'm wrong.

  • caveguy Sequim, WA
    March 3, 2014 7:54 a.m.

    If you're a ball of "dating anxiety" you're not going to be very attractive to anyone. Relax. Stop hunting so hard and enjoy dating a variety of people with the purpose of enjoying your time together. These women are not the only ones with a checklist; it's obvious that you have one of your own. Maybe you're running into nothing but "princesses" because, subconsciously, that's the kind of person you're looking for. Then when you find "princesses" you get all upset because of their "princess" characteristics. If you go into the garden to get a tomato, stop looking in the celery patch. I contribute these thoughts having been blessed to marry the girl of my dreams 43 years ago. But it took 7 years for me to change enough, and for her to change enough, for us to discover that we were meant to be together forever. During that 7 years, we dated (not exclusively each other), I served a mission, and I served in the military. Only after all that, did we find out that neither of us could live without the other. Have faith. Work on yourself more than on the other person.

  • 1.96 Standard Deviations OREM, UT
    March 3, 2014 7:48 a.m.

    The Young Man is right that it is hard to describe a complex situation in a single paragraph. The dating scene can be very frustrating.

    After reading this follow up, however, it seems to re-confirm what we suspected from the beginning -- attitude and humility issues. I'm personally not impressed with his attitude or how he portrays himself in writing. This kind of this attitude can seap into how he conducts himself, and the women can probably perceive this and don't like it.

    If this young man values being "honest" and "clear," perhaps pointing out two potential red flags will help:

    1) Blaming and judging the women [in Utah] will not help your cause.

    2) Saying, "But, when it comes to dating, I’m not the issue here." --- What?? You're not leaving any room for personal improvement or sacrifice to improve your relationship with someone else?

    No wonder you are frustrated (and the women probably are too)! A little humility will go a long way.

  • AllBlack San Diego, CA
    March 3, 2014 7:41 a.m.

    "I’m open to the idea of finding someone who doesn’t ultimately fit the ideal. Most LDS women — and perhaps I should specify LDS women from Utah — are not"

    I think he has a point there. I ran into the same issues years ago in Utah and had to find someone elsewhere. Back then if you weren't a returned missionary you were F grade and undatable for many girls.

    Problem now, as it was then, is that when you say this or something similar to it, she'd reject it as you being the problem or that its an anti-mormon criticism.

    Maybe people shouldn't look for specific, like RM or future job, and just concentrate on falling in love.

  • ? SLC, UT
    March 3, 2014 7:21 a.m.

    Can this fellow explain what are some real expectations LDS men and women can expect from each other?

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    March 3, 2014 6:20 a.m.

    How does that song go? If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife so as a personal advice to you, get an ugly girl to marry you.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    March 3, 2014 6:07 a.m.

    Back in the day when I was trying to find my girl. I was talking with a older man, he said you want some one that wants you. It takes time to find some people it's all of a sudden but some it a slow proses before it dawn on them that someone might love them.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    March 3, 2014 5:40 a.m.

    Both young men and young women can have unrealistic expectations. President Hinckley once said "Anyone who imagines that bliss is normal is going to waste a lot of time running around shouting that he’s been robbed. The fact is that most putts don’t drop, most beef is tough, most children grow up to just be people, most successful marriages require a high degree of mutual toleration, most jobs are more often dull than otherwise. Life is like an old time rail journey…delays…sidetracks, smoke, dust, cinders and jolts, interspersed only occasionally by beautiful vistas and thrilling burst of speed. The trick is to thank the Lord for letting you have the ride."